Oral History with Esther Jones, November 9th, 2012 (Ms2019-037)

Tyler Bergeron: This is Tyler Bergeron here with Esther Jones on November 9,

2012 and we're just going to talk a little bit about the Wake Forest community

and some more follow up questions on CI, and I guess we can start. So, if you

can just tell me a little bit about last time- you said your grandfather built

the church that is right in front of your house. So, if you could just kind of

start with a little bit of history of Wake Forest, of what you know, and some

family history from the area.

Esther Jones: Well, I would say the church was built in nineteen and twenty, the

year I was born. So, [laughter] you know how old I am. And, the Cowans down on

Kentland Farm, they gave the lumber but you had to go in the mountain, cut the

trees, and get it to the sawmill, and get it all sawed and all. But, they gave

it- all the material they 00:01:00need for it and so that's the year that it was built.

Tyler: So did your family go and get the lumber out of the--? Did they cut down

the trees and everything, was that a family undertaking or--?

Esther: Community, a community undertaking. They would come down and of course

everybody, most men had a horse and everything- that way, they could drag it out

and get it to the sawmill. Of course, during that time, there was sawmills all

around because people was dealing so much with timber. For the making cross-ties

for the railroad and the mines and all that. But they did give the lumber to

build the little church.

Tyler: So how long has your family lived in this 00:02:00area? Have they been here since

Wake Forest was created or did they move in after?

Esther: Well, I guess they were here when it was created. When it was given, I

guess, you know. Oh, that had to be in eighteen-hundred something, I guess.

Tyler: Did your grandfather ever tell any stories about Wake Forest in its early

stages or any interesting stories about Wake Forest?

Esther: You know, I don't think people really went into too much of talking

about it. It was just something they was so busy working, trying to make it. You

know. It was, as I said, all of it was a mining area I understand. That's how

the name became Wake Forest. Said where they had awakened the forest. When there

was people cuttin' down trees, people building homes 00:03:00and building churches and

so forth and all. So, that's what I was told, that that's how the name Wake

Forest came about.

Tyler: Do you know what your grandfather did for work before building a church

and everything. Was that kind of just a side job?

Esther: Well, he was a carpenter, you know that. I told you I think before. He

built a lot of homes around, out in McCoy, some of the older homes and all.

Mostly they, my grandfather worked on the railroad, they worked on the railroad.

And of course, then in the 00:04:00meantime, the mines came about. 'Course, I know

you've heard a whole lot about the mines. The Big Vein mines and also the Great

Valley mines- we had two big mines, you know, back. I told you my husband, he

operated the last actual mines that was working here. See, the Jones, he used to-

Tyler: Oh, yeah.

Esther: [laughter] I was gonna let you know that he and another fella had the

mines back then. When you go out of Wake Forest, when you still makin' a left

going out of here. If you turn right and go out the road just a little, just

less than a mile, you'll see the monument if you wanna go out and look at it.

It's right out the road. You know, when you turn off McCoy Road onto Wake Forest

Road, go right out the road.

Tyler: It's only a mile down there?

Esther: Huh?

Tyler: It's only a mile down the road?

Esther: It's not a mile, not a mile. You go right out there, you pass the fire

station, you know, the emergency place and 00:05:00the monument is right by it, I think.

Right by our cemetery.

Tyler: So can you tell me a little bit more about the mines? It seems like a

pretty big family thing, you seem pretty proud of it.

Esther: Oh, [laughter] my whole family was involved. My father, he worked in the

mines. And, course, he developed that black lung and all of that. It had taken a

lot of lives. Of course it was all that dust down in there. But, in the later

years when my husband came along when they had the mines in the mountain, it was

more or less a family affair. They used mules at the mines to pull the cars. I

don't 00:06:00know what capacity they were doing that, but they worked them in the

mines. Every Friday when my husband came home, he brought two mules with him and

let 'em, put 'em on so they could pasture, you know, put 'em out to pasture. So,

that was a chore. Then, Sunday evening they would take 'em back up to the mines.

They had a barn, a stable in other words, they would stay in up there at the

mines, but he would bring them home for the weekend. As I say that, I think, did

I tell you that I kept up the books, I kept the payroll? He had about twenty-one

people that worked there. Of course, it was a smaller mines. It wasn't a bigger

mines. I had to take out the social security and also send the payroll up to the

people that actually owned it. It was up in the Baltimore 00:07:00area. I'd make a

monthly little report and send there. So they were organized, they were, into

the United Mine Workers of America. A lot of people got these little mines, what

they call scab mines. They just dug out coal and sold it for their own living.

But, the big mines closed which was the United Mine Workers, automatically. That

was the big company that owned all of this. And so, the men that worked in his

mines were members of the United Mine Workers of America. So, that's the reason

when things closed down, they were entitled to a pension. And the men that had

black lung got a black 00:08:00lung fund. Well, right now I get a check from the United

Mine Workers and also get my husband's black lung, too, and all things. He's

been gone for twenty-nine years.

Tyler: So your husband worked in the mines also?

Esther: Oh, he run the mines.

Tyler: The whole time? I mean, from when he was younger 'til?

Esther: No, I mean, when he was younger he worked in the mines but when he take

on the one I'm talking about operating, he was the one that operated it.

Tyler: During World War II, were the mines still operating or at that point had

they shut down?

Esther: Oh, they were still operating because my husband did not stop going to

that mine. He been in the Navy. He was in the Navy during World War II, and it

was after he come out the Navy that he started. When he was at one of the mines,

they were kinda shuttin' down a little 00:09:00bit. So, that was when he opened the

mines. It was sort of a branch off from the one, what was known as the Big Vein mines.

Tyler: So he was in the Navy during the War?

Esther: Um-hm. He was in Okinawa and all over in there, you know, the

Philippines and all that kind of stuff.

Tyler: Did a lot of people from the community leave during the war to go in the military?

Esther: I mean, it wasn't no choice, then. See now you went and volunteer if you

want to go. That was a sad time, because he sure didn't wanna go.

Tyler: So he was drafted?

Esther: Yeah, he was drafted.

Tyler: Did he ever tell you what he thought about being drafted? Was there a

level of--he wanted to go at all? Or was it just-

Esther: He just did not want to go. 00:10:00When he went to--I don't know how you call

it--I guess to do the final work and all, a bunch of 'em went, about five or six

went. Now, my brother and he went together. My brother, they put him in the Army

and put my husband in the Navy. [laughter]

Tyler: When he got back, did he say he enjoyed it at all? Or did he not enjoy it?

Esther: [laughter] I don't think he enjoyed it. And, I had a young baby, my

daughter was seven months old, I think--eight or something like that--when he

left. Now this is not interesting- y'all gone have to put a- say something about

this. But he left then I found out I was pregnant. So, my son was over a year

old before he saw him. You know, before he got to see 00:11:00him. Now, I was with two

little babies in two rooms. This room and that room. This was my kitchen and

everything. It was a big room. You know it was big to be a kitchen and that. I

had two baby beds and my bedroom suit in one room there. 'Course when he got

home then we built on to the house. But, I had a merry, merry good time. I had

good neighbors though, real good neighbors. I had my in-laws lived right down

below me, and also I had my aunt that lived real close to 00:12:00me, and my mother. Of

course she lived way back in the mountain when mine was born. But she was here

all the time.

Tyler: So the community really helped you when he was gone.

Esther: Yes.

Tyler: Did you have a lot of contact with him through letters while he was in

the navy?

Esther: It takes so long to get the letters. Yes, I would write, but it'd take

weeks. You know, you didn't get very often.

Tyler: Now, your brother, is he also from Wake Forest, too?

Esther: My-

Tyler: The one who went into the army, is that your brother?

Esther: What, Linwood?

Tyler: Uh- your husband that went into the Navy and there was the other one who

went into the Army.

Esther: Um-hm, my brother went into the army. You have to remind me and bring me

back to what I'm talkin' about.

Tyler: That's okay. So, your brother went into the 00:13:00army. Is he also from Wake Forest?

Esther: Yes, sure.

Tyler: Did he- he was also drafted?

Esther: Yes.

Tyler: Did he enjoy his time?

Esther: I don't think any of 'em enjoyed it. Maybe if they got there and they

knew- they had to try to be contented because there was nothing they could do

about it. But they didn't go out here and volunteer, I'm tellin' ya that.

Tyler: That's understandable. Did they ever tell any stories about any racial

tension during the war or anything like that? There's a lot of books out there

now that are being published talking about different racial things during the war.

Esther: Yeah, they would mention it, but we never dwelled on that too much

because my neighbors, when I lived back in the mountain, my home, they were all

white around us, you know? We was always close. It was no big issue, you 00:14:00 know.

Something's gonna come up all the time, a little something, you know. But they

worked together, at the mines together. We were always together. So it wasn't

too much of that, but I think when they kinda went into the army I've heard some

of them say they kinda making a difference and all. But, I always was taught

that people were people- we didn't choose what we were gonna be. So, why make an

issue of it?

Tyler: Right, yeah.

Esther: Just go on and love everybody and be happy. Now, we worship up here in

this little church, you know, and we had a good time. Sometimes a white

minister, sometimes a black minister, you know. We had just always been 00:15:00a- in

this area- we were a close knit people.

Tyler: How did the war affect your daily life? I mean, because there were

rationing and things like that. Did things change a lot during the war? Or did

life pretty much stay the same, despite the fact that your husband and a lot of

the men were gone?

Esther: Well, it wasn't easy. It was kinda hard but we made it. We had to- I

don't think I ever got any rations. You know, food and all. We had an income,

wasn't much, but you make do with what you got and handle it wisely. We didn't

come into too much conflict with 00:16:00 that.

Tyler: So during World War II, it seems like the community really came together

to support everyone when everyone else was gone.

Esther: Um-hm, yes.

Tyler: Is there any interesting stories that came out of that? Or, any

homecomings when the soldiers came back that were big celebrations?

Esther: Oh yes, when they come back they had a big day for 'em. People

celebrated when the war was over. It was a happy time, the boys got to come

home. But, maybe two or three reenlisted if they liked it. If you couldn't find

a job they'd go out here and reenlist. I know one or two in the community did

that. Then they got caught up in that Korean war. But I knew my husband and my

brother, they weren't gonna do 00:17:00that. As I said because his life was in that

mines. He loved mining. And that was hard work too, working in the mines. And, I

was, as I told you, the bookkeeper, the payroll person for when he had his

little mines. I may have mentioned when you all were here before, we haulin' the

dynamite. I did, didn't I? Or did I?

Tyler: I don't recall. I think you mentioned it, but, if you could tell us the

story again, that would be great.

Esther: I had to go over to Vicker, that's way over here where they ship the

dynamite 00:18:00in from wherever they made it. I would go and get it for the mines, you

know. They'd put it in the trunk of my car, those boxes, in the trunk of the

car. I was scared I would hit a bump [laughter] driving back. The first time I

went to pick up the dynamite, I dodged- we had dirt roads, rough roads- I

finally got it back in the mountain. I didn't know you had to plug it into

something for it to explode. [laughter] I didn't know all the procedure of how

they set up the explosion but it had to be connected to something. But I would

take my time- I didn't want to take no chances. And then, I had to go to

Bluefield, West Virginia to out there where they had Bluefield Supply that had

all kinds of mining things if something break at the mines. My husband 00:19:00 would

come here and bring the truck and I would go to Bluefield. I'd take that truck

and go to Bluefield. He would take the car and go back up in the mountain. We'd

swap like that 'cause I would go out there and get supplies, too. It was

exciting when you think about it, but wasn't all that fun when you were doing

it. [laughter]

Tyler: So you would drive out there yourself to get the supplies?

Esther: Um-hm, you know where Bluefield is, it's a good ways away. Me and that

truck on the highway going to [laughter]. But on the whole, it was a good life.

You don't miss what ya--you didn't have enough or high if it go. That's the way

it went, so why not just buckle down and enjoy? 00:20:00No need of sitting back pitying.

Tyler: So, how long after graduating from CI was it before- did you work in the

mines right after CI? After graduating from there? Or, did you have other jobs

in between? Can you kind of tell us how your career went after graduating from CI?

Esther: After I graduated, I think I told you, I up and got married, so I become

a housewife shortly afterwards. I graduated in 19[39], I got married in 19[40].

Tyler: So after being a housewife, what was your first job after that? Did you-

Esther: [20:37 inaudible] I worked at the arsenal a while. I had two different

times that I worked. Because the first time I worked up in Dublin in the part of

the plant. The arsenal was in Dublin, I worked there. Then I worked over at 00:21:00 the

arsenal 'cross the, you know where that is, don't ya? Back that way, you don't know?

Tyler: No.

Esther: It's still operatin', ya know, makin' that powder and stuff over there

at the arsenal. I worked there for a while and then I went out and I did day

work, you know, different families. Then I went on to Tech's campus later and

worked there on the campus in the custodian department. That's where the

president got me from there--President Hahn. I know you don't know him and also

you didn't know Lavery either, he came later. I retired from Virginia Tech. I

had sixteen or seventeen 00:22:00years of work for Tech.

Tyler: Can you tell us a little bit more about your work at Tech? About what you

did at Virginia Tech. You said custodial-

Esther: Custodial was cleaning the offices. I was in Norris Hall, there at Tech.

The one that had all that killing that happened several years, a few years ago.

Classrooms and offices, cleanin' there and then when I left there I went to, as

I told you, the president's house, where I was chief cook and the bottle washer. [laughter]

Tyler: Last time I was here you mentioned, I think, it was driving to pick

people up for-

Esther: Oh, yeah.

Tyler: Can you tell us anything more about that? Because that sounded

interesting and we didn't really get to cover that last time.

Esther: Well, whatever need to be done, you did it. If 00:23:00some of the people were

comin' in, they was flyin' in to Roanoke, coming to the Board of Visitors, some

of them. Even their parents flew. So I would drive down to the airport and pick

them up. It was one of those jobs, jack of all trades but you weren't master of

any. But whatever was needing doing, and their kids was takin' music lessons,

and first one thing then another, taking them to the place, pick 'em up. Then,

practically run the house.

Tyler: So you knew the president very well.

Esther: Oh yes, I knew him very well. I remember when Board of Visitors came

there one time when Dr. Hahn was the president. And, of course, we had this big

luncheon because I was the chief 00:24:00cook, too. I fixed it, I got it all in. When I

came into the dining area, where they was eating I came in and served something-

Dr. Hahn introduced me as the prettiest one in the family. [laughter] So, I

walked over to meet the- Mrs. Jones, they called me Mrs. Jones- say they have a

new member in our family. So I was there with the Hahns and they had three

children. Then, I was there with the Laverys and they had four children.

Tyler: So, did you actually feel like a member of their family?

Esther: Yes.

Tyler: It seems like they took you in as a member of their family.

Esther: So, it was very pleasant. Very pleasant. Sometimes I stayed there. If

there wasn't too much to do, I'd go there for about four hours and come home.

Depends on what was going on. But when we'd have 00:25:00dinners--we had lots and lots

of big dinners--I'd go there in the morning and get all the things together.

Because there were a lot of things you could fix ahead of time and thank God for

a freezer. But then I would come home for about three or four hours and then I'd

get dressed up and go back out to be there to serve the dinner and get it all

together. So, I mean, it was enjoyable work. I enjoyed it.

Tyler: How did the children of the presidents- did they enjoy your company?

Esther: Oh, yeah.

Tyler: I mean, did they become your own children almost?

Esther: [laughter] They were little pests, but some of 'em I couldn't turn from.

Now, when I first went to the 00:26:00Hahns, Anne was the baby--of course you don't know

who I'm talking about, I'm just calling a name--but she couldn't stand me. She

didn't even want to even look at me and Dr. Hahn was trying to make her. I

finally, I told him, leave her alone, she'll be okay. When she get used to me,

she'll be okay. Just don't bother. Don't make her if she don't wanna speak to

me. Before I left there, I couldn't turn from her. She stayed under my feet, you

know? As I say, you win 'em over. Just go on and let 'em roam. Because she

was--well, the other lady that had worked there had her rotten and she couldn't

get her. She'd just give over to her and everything and she just couldn't get

over the fact that she wasn't there. So she decided to ignore me. But I got

along with the children real 00:27:00well. I didn't have no problem with 'em. 'Course I

had children of my own, so I knew how to approach 'em. But I've never tried to

put yourself on 'em. Let 'em. Give 'em time.

Tyler: So of all the careers you had after CI, is Virginia Tech your favorite,

because it seems like you have a lot of positive memories from working with the

presidents and things like that?

Esther: No, I can't think of anything, just being there and being family, ya

know? When they would have functions on the campus, if their family went, I went

with them. We went together. His inauguration, all of the big functions and

stuff like 00:28:00that on campus. It was nice. You just don't push yourself on people,

you kinda gradually come into it.

Tyler: I guess we'll take a step back now and kind of go back to the CI

questions. You talked a lot about your boarding experience at CI, boarding

there. Now, why did you board at CI? Was it too far of a drive? Did your parents

choose for you to board there? Did you have a choice at all?

Esther: There was no choice. There was no school buses running in this area. And

I guess it was consolidated because they did have a bus that come from Pulaski

and Radford down to 00:29:00bring students down, but it was no choice. Where I lived and

all, you had to board. Nobody could afford to drive to Christiansburg and back

and all that kinda stuff. So, that's the reason I went there as a boarding student.

Tyler: Do you know when they implemented transportation from this area to

Christiansburg? Because, you said that your children, years later, were able to

take the bus in. Do you know when the transportation changed?

Esther: I guess it changed about- I don't exactly know but I know when my

children came, it was a bus runnin'. I told ya my son drove the bus one year,

parked it right here by my house [laughter]--the school bus. That was no choice,

then. If you went, you had to board because you could not- nobody to take you

back and forth every day. That was out of the question. When I went there in

September, I didn't get back home until November for 00:30:00Thanksgiving when the

school was closed for Thanksgiving holidays. That's when I come home.

Tyler: Did your parents ever visit you at CI? 'Cause your brother went there

also, too.

Esther: Oh yeah, um-hm. They would visit. Not often 'cause they couldn't. My

father was kinda losing his health during that time, too. He would visit. Of

course you wrote them and they wrote you, send you a little money. But anyway,

it was just like a home away from home. We had our chores to do there and we had

to abide by the rules of the school.

Tyler: What type of chores would you have to do around there? Was it just

cleaning or did you have to take care of-

Esther: Well, I was in the kitchen mostly. I would 00:31:00help with the, mostly the

noon meal. It depends on how your classes run. If you had a class from eleven to

one, well, you went on to the kitchen. You got your hours in, but you worked in

the kitchen. I helped the cook and prepare the meals and they had girls that

waiters, they waited on the table. They also had a laundry there because the

laundry was done there. The boys would bring their laundry over Sunday evening.

You'd see 'em bring their little bags to the laundry room, and the girls. That

wasn't my thing, because I did not like to work in the laundry. I liked to work

in the kitchen part. In fact, I had two good friends that were sisters that

boarded 00:32:00across the hall from me in the dormitory. They did my laundry.

[laughter] They would talk real loud because the way those walls was made, there

was about that much space above that was open and you could hear people talkin'.

And I'd hear them say, oh we got to go to the laundry, and they'd talk real

loud, you know who, we got to get you know who's clothes [laughter]. Then they

would talk about it and say, I don't know what that lazy thing would do if it

wasn't for us. That kind of stuff. [laughter] But, they were my good friends,

they were just so sweet. You have to, when you out like that, away from home,

make a home away from home. You 00:33:00found out early in life that you better try and

make the best of it. Because I've seen some of them being mistreated so badly

because they had come in there with a attitude. They thought everybody owed them

something. Nobody owe nobody nothing. Just go on and be sweet and nice.

Tyler: Was that typical, for somebody to come in with an attitude or was that

pretty rare?

Esther: Not too, but some of them was- they just didn't make friends real well

because they had an attitude. Well, some of them thought they were better than

and nobody's no better. Everybody's on the same equal when you're there. And act

like somebody owe you something.

Tyler: Was there a difference between students that were transported from home

or the ones that boarded there?

Esther: Oh, yeah.

Tyler: Did they have different attitudes?

Esther: Oh yes, there was a rivalry there 00:34:00because the boys, they had more

privilege than the girls. They could leave the campus if they--if somebody was

having a party, they would invite the boys. The boys could leave the campus, but

the girls, we couldn't leave the campus like that. They did, you know. So, that

kind of peeved us all. We'd tell the boys, Murphy, if you go to that party, I'm

through with ya. I ain't gone talk to ya no more. But, anyway, it's all--I

reckon it was just different.

Tyler: So, it seemed like the boarding experience was a really good one. Do you

feel like your children may have missed out on that opportunity? Do you think

they missed something from not boarding?

Esther: I think they did in the long run. Some of 00:35:00'em even admit it, they wished

they had boarded. Well, I was at a meeting at the RSVP [Retired and Senior

Volunteer Program] not too long ago and we was putting together all this stuff

from the schools and all and this woman there told me--I think she said was from

Floyd or somewhere and she said how they envied the children at CI because it

was an industrial school. Christiansburg Industrial Institute. See, the girls,

they took typing and you're taking all kind of trades by being an industrial

school. It was a trade school. They would leave there and get a 00:36:00job as a

secretary because they taught a trade school. Boys, they would shop, they were

carpenters and different things. Then, of course, the agriculture. One time,

they was having a--they used to judge livestock, these colleges would, and they

competed with VPI [Virginia Polytechnic Institute] and CI got the blue ribbon

because they judged the cattle. Now, I don't know how it's done so don't ask me.

But they was so happy they brought that big blue ribbon back, that they beat

Tech out judging cattle. See, because being a trade school, that did make a big

difference there and 00:37:00they did kind of envy that. Because some of the girls that

left CI, they went straight to Washington and got jobs as secretaries and

everything else.

Tyler: Did you have any friends that did anything like that, took their skills

and went to college or anything like that? Or did most people just get married

after? Of your friends.

Esther: [laughter] Well, not too much. As I said, they left and went on and made

a career. I had a cousin, a good friend that died here last month, and she went

on and went to Washington to work and she died as a colonel in the army. You

know, she was a big thing. She ended up working there at the White House. When

the Clintons were there, I think, she would send me pictures and all, things

from the White 00:38:00House. They had a big military funeral for her. They had buried

her there in Arlington. A lot of people that just went on with their skill and

made something out of it.

Tyler: So, it definitely set people up for success at CI. It seems like there's

a very strong pride that goes along with going to CI. It seems like it really

prepared people for their future.

Esther: Yes, it did. They'd come right out of there, could get a job as a

secretary 'cause you taught that right there. And also, the boys with the barber

shop. This guy, Charles Johnson, that has his barber shop there in Blacksburg. I

don't know whether you've come into contact with Sonny or 00:39:00not. Have you?

Tyler: Another student in our class interviewed him.

Esther: Now he'd taken barbering there. When he left there, he was a barber down

at one of those big marine bases. And he still got barber shop there in

Blacksburg, right there. And that was his trade, they taught beauticians and

clerical work and also, whatever trade you wanted to do, you had a privilege.

Sometimes you regret you didn't go on with it but everybody had to live their

own life, whatever they do.

Tyler: Did your husband go to CI? Or how did you meet your husband?

Esther: No, he was just an area boy here in Wake Forest. Just finished

elementary and went to work in, I think, in the coal field. My 00:40:00husband, he

worked at the mines also. He was a miner. Then when the arsenal came in, making

all this powder and stuff, when the mines would close down, maybe during the

summer, they would go work at the arsenal because during the summer, sometimes

the coal--there wasn't a big demand for coal then. So, most of them did that.

They worked in the coal fields. When they weren't in the coal fields they was at

the arsenal. That was the two big job things in this area at that time.

Tyler: So you just knew your husband from living in the community. How did you

guys start 00:41:00dating? How did that get set up?

Esther: [laughter]

Tyler: Were your parents friends and they kind of-?

Eshter: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. My mother and my husband's mother, they kinda grew up

together. Her name is Addie, my husband's mother, and she was a little older

than my mother, so I think they kinda came along as playmates. They didn't have

no idea that, and I didn't either, that nothing like that--they knew each other

real well. As I said, everybody, they had they connections. If it wasn't with

the mines or wherever they worked, they were together, and then we worshipped

together. It was all just a big community of people. 00:42:00Of course I had a boyfriend

at school then [laughter]. He was a cute little fella, but I don't know what

happened. We fell out and the principal of the school, he wanted to come over

into Wake Forest, right down here on this ledge up through there. It had the

prettiest little cedars. He built a new home over there and he wanted to come

over here and get some shrubbery in order to sit around his house. And he had to

come in and ask the matron, my matron, Ms. Long, could I, I mean he could come

tell her he wanted to bring me to show 00:43:00him where to come. Of course, she ain't

gonna tell the principal no and so she said yes. So when he came to pick me up,

he drove up there to pick me up, my boyfriend was sitting in the back seat. The

principal driving along said, now I don't know what happened to you all, but I

think it's a good time for y'all to try to make up. [laughter] That tickled me

so much. He was bringing him to help him to dig the shrubbery. So, he thought he

would just try to get us back together. I thought that was right cute. But,

anyway. Yes, we had plenty of rivalries. That was a good rivalry. Some bad

rivalries because there was a difference, quite a 00:44:00difference, when you were

boarding and when you commuting. But it's good both ways. But, I boarded all the

time. I was a boarding student.

Tyler: When you were boarding at CI, did they have any big events, any holiday

meals or anything like that then, or something that you guys looked forward to?

Esther: Well, I tell you when the holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas and

all, people were gone. But, we would have nice socials. We would have sort of a

"party" party in the dining hall. Not very often because we had our other times.

They tried to keep it as much of a family--like a home away from home, in other 00:45:00 words.

Tyler: So what types of things would you guys do for fun, after you were done

your work and things like that? Would you play games?

Esther: Yes, we'd play games. We'd play Whist, cards, and dominos and all that

kind of ya know. If you were interested in Chinese checkers, we had all of that

stuff in what we call our parlor. It was a big room. We had games and

everything. Then, of course, we had our own choir and we had rehearsals. We had

day plays. We kept busy, was no slack of 00:46:00 anything.

Tyler: Did you participate in the plays or in the choir or anything like that?

Esther: Oh, I was damn near in everything. [laughter] I was in the choir. I

remember we had a play and I had to lead in the play. Well, I didn't know if my

mother could come there or if any of my people would be able to come when we

gave the play. That evening, about time for the play to start, here come my

mother and my grandmother and the man that I married, he brought 'em. He had a

car and he brought 'em over there. I don't think I wasn't talkin' to him then. I

don't think I was. But, oh, that made me so happy. I say, I put on a show.

Because they was comin' there you know- I was feeling so sad that they weren't

going to be able to come, none of my people. So we had a lot of nice 00:47:00plays and

things. It was a lot of fun. It was down times and up times, but most times was

good times.

Tyler: Are they any down times that you can remember that you were homesick or

there were people that you didn't get along with and anything like that?

Ester: You know, in a place like that, you always run into something. Sometimes,

ya know. But, I always had good friends on my side. But it was nice that you

even had the opportunity, when you think about it. Otherwise, you wouldn't have

gone to high school at all. If it wasn't for the boarding, to have that 00:48:00privilege. I was tellin' you about this girl, this woman was tellin' me--no

girl, a woman--from Floyd, when they came down for the Christmas parade, she

said that she envied so Christiansburg. They had a band you wouldn't believe.

They had uniforms you wouldn't believe. She said that, when that band come

through there, they had this guy, the conductor, he was a professional. He had

that band on the ball and she said, I was so embarrassed, here we come without

no uniforms or nothing and of all things, they put us right behind 'em. She was

talkin' about how good it was and 00:49:00how they envied that they weren't involved in

the boarding school over there where they had that, all that. They had top notch

teachers there, they were really good, and whatever they was good at, they were

good. Wasn't no foolishness, you know. They were nice, but you had to do what

you had to do. So on the whole, when I look back over my life and think about

everything, I had a lot of precious memories from homelife back in the mountain.

We didn't have neighbors, we didn't have real clothes but all of our neighbors

were, as I said, white. We just didn't--I grew up, I never did think no

difference. I just did not. Because, it wasn't. 00:50:00We had a small family but we

always canned and put up a lot of stuff. My daddy, he had all kinds of fruit

trees. He had six apple trees and none of 'em were the same. You know, different

fruits and peaches and plums and cherries and everything. We always put up a lot

of food. Families that lived 'round close to us back in the mountains and

surroundings, they had big families and by January they started running out of

food. So then, we had food to give 'em. They would come down and that was a

[inaudible 50:43] the only thing that my mother wanted was her jars back,

because you canned everything in glass jars then. But, we always had plenty. If

anybody come and it was only daddy, go to the smokehouse with his knife to cut

'em off a hunk of meat because he raised hogs and all. And mama would go to the 00:51:00cellar and bring out the canned stuff, you know? So I thought that was, well,

that was a way of life then. You shared what you had with other people. Don't

let anybody come there and say they had been hungry. We have had people come say

we haven't had no food and my daddy, if he get through, let you know, he said,

don't you ever wait 'til you out. Always come, and we always helped people. I

had a good life at home like that, because I enjoyed helping people. Still do,

and I think it's a 00:52:00 blessing.

Tyler: Absolutely.

Esther: It is.

Tyler: So it seems like your parents really liked to help people and that kind

of has influenced your life.

Esther: Oh yes, I was brought up sharing.

Tyler: Do you feel like that helped you at CI making friends and things like that?

Esther: Oh, I think so. I'm sure it did. I'm sure that all of that helped

because that's what life is all about when you stop and think about it. Now,

everybody is just about on the same--every now and then, somebody, you can

help--but everybody is about on the same level. But, it's good to share whatever

you have. Whether it's material, spiritually, whatever it is. You just let

people 00:53:00know. The main thing to let them know is there's a God somewhere. There's

a God up there and he watches over you and takes care of you. I pray to him

every day, for people and for myself and my family and everybody because sooner

or later we have to answer that call regardless of who we are or what we are

doing. That's a part of our life. Everything is not material. It's spiritual, too.

Tyler: When you were at CI, what was the opportunity to go to church? Were there

multiple churches you could go to or did you all go to one chapel?

Esther: Well, we had a chapel service there during the 00:54:00week. We had our

Wednesday night prayer meetings just like at church. They had chapel during the

day. But, on Sunday, we would go to different churches over in Christiansburg,

Schaeffer, the Methodist, the Baptist, the Holiness- we would rotate Sundays and

that's when the girls all, you got on your church clothes. You got lined up,

two, two, two, two, two. Two senior girls in front of the line, two senior girls

in the back of it. We had to have our gloves, and our pocketbooks, and we had to

be dressed just right. We'd leave the campus and we'd walk over into the 00:55:00town to

church. Same formation, we'd come back. Then we get back and the den would be

ready and everything. The cooks would stay and do the food and all. Of course,

that was rotated. If things rotated your way, you might not have the privilege

of going. But anyway, that was our routine for service, plus we had Sunday

school there on the campus in the chapel. Sunday morning we'd have our Sunday

school there. So, we had activities and maybe during the spring when the weather

got a little warm, on Sunday after we have a--well, after we have dinner you had

a quiet hour. You had to go to your room for quiet 00:56:00hour. When quiet hour was

over, they may announce they were having a social on campus. The boys would come

over and the girls, you talk and you couple off and kind of that. Bleed-knee

Marcy, that's what we called our Matron, Ms. Long, she was sitting on the porch.

She and the principal both. They were sitting and they'd watch. You didn't get

out of their sight, but it was nice. After all, when kids are away from home

like that you have to have to have some kind of good personal where you just

[inaudible 00:56:42] turn you loose. People didn't worry about you when you was

at CI, I'm telling you that much. And, if you didn't do right, if something

happened, and you wasn't gonna act right, they didn't mind callin' your parents

and tellin' 'em to come 00:57:00get 'em. They gave you a chance. Thank goodness mine

didn't come get me. [laughter] I mean it was a life. It was so interesting, just

things you're not gonna forget. Any way you look at it, you're just not going to

forget it.

Tyler: When your children went to CI, did you remember any of their experiences?

You must have been proud of them and their opportunity to go to CI. Do you

remember them 00:58:00coming home with any different stories that were vastly different

from your own experience? Or, at that point, were things different for them than

they were for you in any aspect?

Esther: Are you speaking of boarding versus commuter? You know they come in with

day students and boarding students.

Tyler: You know, the CI experience, did they enjoy it as much as you did? Did they-

Esther: Well, I hope they did. Some of them didn't. Just like everything else,

some of them didn't like being away from home and all that. But, the majority of

them, when we got there we just kind of connected as a family. Sometimes they

tell about their experiences at their former school and home and all. We had a

lot of things 00:59:00to talk about but the main thing was you were there to get your

education. You had to buckle down and make good, and they didn't mind making you

go study extra hours if you fell behind on some of your subjects and all. On the

whole, I can just say that it was just an experience that I will never forget. I

didn't know anything through my high school other than being in a boarding

school. Probably didn't have all of the activities and things, but we had

enough. We had a good football team. I mean they were good. Out there in that

open field, there were no seats, no bleachers, 01:00:00nothing like that. You'd just

stand out there and cheer them on. Of course they had a real good team. 'Course,

when my children were going, of course the school was consolidated then and they

had to bus and everything like that. I have driven, since my daughter was the

captain of the cheerleaders. My son was co-captain of the football team. So the

football team would go on the bus and the bus would carry the boys. But somebody

had to take the cheerleaders so that was my job. One time they was playin' in

Lexington and you know where Lexington is? How far that is from Christiansburg?

Well, the bus left and I left but when I got to 01:01:00natural bridge, I hadn't been to

there before so I stopped there and I had taken a little tour. That was my first

time at Natural Bridge because I had never seen it. When I got to Lexington,

they was all ready to come back, lookin' where in the world? [laughter] But you

know, that's--we enjoyed following the team, wherever they went to play and all.

It was really good. I almost got the team penalized. One of the guys, he was one

of the parents there, he had a son playing a football, too. I saw my son get

this ball and start down the field. I went out. I wanted to 01:02:00see and I stepped

over the line. He said, you're gonna penalize the team! I said, for what? He

said, you ain't supposed to step over that line. But anyway, it was fun. When

you were real close to your children. A child loves to do his best if the

parents there. I used to feel sorry for some of the children, the parents never

was able to come to see them in anything. But I was close enough, even with my

children, where I could. I used to do a lot of dinner parties for people, If

there was something going on at CI that evening that the children was involved

in, I would let them know before I even attempt to do it. Now, I'm gonna leave

early because I ain't going to miss and they 01:03:00understood that. Sometimes, I'd

leave the dishes. I'd leave everything. I'm gone. They in plays and they had a

lot of plays and programs at school, when your children involved, it encourages

them for the parent to be there. So, it was nice. I enjoyed when I was there, my

time. Then, I enjoyed being there for my children.

Tyler: What year did your children graduate, what years?

Esther: Jean, [19]61 and Arnold in [19]62. She went to Bennett in North

Carolina. She went to college down there three years then she got out of college

and got married. I told you about my son. I told you before that he graduated on

a Friday and had to go to work Monday morning because they had hired him 01:04:00 at

Poly-Scientific and they were the ones that sent him to school to the vo-tech

[vocational-technical school] in Radford. That's where he was selected engineer.

Tyler: So both of them seem like they were pretty successful after going to

school. It definitely prepared them for their future.

Esther: Yes, and Jean, she ended up being a secretary or something for the

government. She lived up in the Maryland and Washington area.

Tyler: And she moved back here?

Esther: Um-hm. Yeah, that's her house right up there. You see that house right

up there? And then, if you drive out that road, a big white house out there is

my son. He and his wife, they just retired, both of them, so they left on a

little trip this 01:05:00morning. He called me yesterday, last night, telling me they'll

be gone for a couple days. So they both retired and live near. You see that

generator out there on the car port? It's just out there if he's not here and

the lights go out. I don't know a thing about that thing. But it's good to have

a backup.

Tyler: Now you mentioned that you did bookkeeping in the mines. Was that typical

that women would work in the mine?

Esther: Yes, it was. I wasn't per se in the mines. I just did the work here at

home. But, yes it was. I don't think I ever heard of 01:06:00any woman doing anything. I

never heard of it. When it branched off from the big mines, when it closed down,

this was the smaller mine. We had about twenty, twenty-one people. And, so, I

just did it.

Tyler: Now, how old were you when you were doing the bookkeeping? Do you know

the years roughly or how old you were?

Esther: Unh-uh. No need in me saying it. My children were in high school then. I

had to do some figuring. [laughter]

Tyler: I think I'm out of questions right now. Is there anything else about Wake

Forest or any 01:07:00 experiences?

Esther: No, I can't think of anything. Probably after you leave something will

come to my mind. That's usually the way it happens, ya know? But, I know I love

it out here. 'Cause, that's where I've lived all my life, just out here. I

wouldn't take nothin' out. I've traveled, I've been a lot of places. I've been

to Israel, all in that part of the country, down in the Bahamas and Hawaii. I

like to travel. I did. But every time when I got back here, I would bow down and 01:08:00kiss the ground. [laughter] I just love here where I live.

Tyler: Now is this a family house? I remember you saying it was just these two

rooms. Did your parents or grandparents live in this area? Or-

Esther: Well, my husband's parents live right down there, this old house you

can--look down there. That was where my husband's parents live. Of course, I

told you my parents lived up in the mountain. When we built these two rooms,

because I didn't have no children or nothin', just my husband and I. My father,

he walked down here, out of the mountain, about a mile and a half, he came down.

When they brought my furniture, they brought my bedroom suit, kitchen stuff.

They put down 01:09:00the linoleum, that's what it was then. My daddy left and walked

about a mile back up there where we lived and here he come back with his hammer

and his nail, and some pictures. Come down and hang some pictures in my room. My

mother was, she was working that day. When she came home, she come in the house

and say she come and looked around and she say, Eddie, where is my pictures? He

say, well, you know, Queen's moved in her new house. She didn't have no

pictures. I just come in, taking some of the pictures off the wall. Her

pictures. Brought 'em down here and hung them 01:10:00in my house. I thought that was

real cute, so I'd have a picture.

Tyler: Did you say he called you Queen?

Esther: Um-hm, that's what everybody call me, Queen.

Tyler: How did they get that nickname?

Esther: Well, I was the first girl and my grandfather, my mother's father, he

came out and time come to make the big announcement, said, we finally got a

queen in the family. That's the way that I think of it. If you read in this here

book here, most everybody called me queen. That was my nickname and then I think

I was about two weeks old or a month old before they decided what to name me. It

was Queenie, so they named me Esther, so that's how I got Queen 01:11:00Esther. My name

is Esther Gertrude Jones. So, that's how the Queen come up out. 'Cause I was at

the Golden Year yesterday, this Jew couple--well, he's a Jew anyway--say every

years ago when my husband was livin' and all, they moved in this community. They

were hippies. They came up from New York and they went to Florida, just hippies.

So, they came in this community. And of course they live now, they bought land

from my aunt. They live back over there now. They built a nice home and all. He

was talking about it yesterday at the Golden Year club. Somebody asked him, how

did you get in this area? He told him about he got in this area and my first

neighbor was 01:12:00Queen. [laughter] Now they are established, they live here, and

they work pretty hard and everything. They just keep me supplied with greens,

beans, tomatoes, and everything. But people just come in here and settle down

like that and just love it. So, that's how my name--why people call me Queen.

So, it's just a good life. I love it. You know, it would be 01:13:00sad if everybody

liked the same thing, wouldn't it?

Tyler: Um-hm.

Esther: [laughter] Or the same place. To make it nice, you like what you like

and you like what you like. People tell me, I wouldn't live back there. I say,

well, you don't live back here. I'm the one that live back here. I'm happy and

I'm content, because I don't need all this house and all this stuff. But that's

what has accumulated over the years. All of those dishes up there like that, the

top one, right up there with the top on it, on the top shelf of the china

closet. You can't see where you sittin'. A lot of those things, when Dr. Hahn

would travel and he liked antique stuff, I got old beautiful 01:14:00platters and those

covered dishes. He'd always bring me things back when he'd go on those trips.

Well, they went to England and bought up all of this antique stuff. When they

shipped it in, it was a van. I mean one of those big vans brought it there to

the house. You never saw such a beautiful thing of dishes and things and he gave

me several pieces of it. So, as I say, somebody is gonna have a hay day around here.

Tyler: I think we covered just about everything. Is there anything else you

thought I was going to ask 01:15:00 you?

Esther: No, I had no idea what you were going to ask me.

Tyler: Is there anything you want me to ask you about that I haven't touched on

yet? [laughter]

Esther: [laughter] I guess I just about covered it. I'll probably come up with

something when you leave. Not right now.

Tyler: I guess we can end it here then. Thank you for your time.

Esther: Um-hm.