VT Stories Oral History with Sam Lionberger, May 12, 2015 (Ms2016-015)

David Cline: This is David Cline and today is Tuesday, May the 12th, 2015.

We're in Roanoke, Virginia. And Sam, if I could just ask you to introduce

yourself for the recording, your name and your date of birth and place of birth.

Sam Lionberger: Okay. Sam Lionberger, or Samuel Lewis Lionberger, Jr. I was born

here in Roanoke. I'm an odd one, one of natives [chuckles], July 7th in 1940.

Just a little before the start of the Second War. My mother and father lived

here in Roanoke. My dad his family is from the Luray 00:01:00area, up in the upper part

of Shenandoah Valley but had moved down to Roanoke where his father was employed

by a steel fabricating firm here in Roanoke. Dad graduated from Jefferson High

School, happened to be in the first class to go all the way through Jefferson

High School, and then attended Roanoke College for two years, and from there

went on to University of Virginia and got his degree in Civil Engineering.

My mother is from South Carolina, born in Spartanburg. Her father was a lumber

wholesaler, a representative for a lumber wholesaler. And along the way in the

late, early '30s, 1935 or so he got transferred into Roanoke and just happened

that they lived about a block apart from each other, so that's how they met. And

I have one sister, Lucia who was born in 1945. She and her husband, who...I

don't know how he got 00:02:00away from us but he went to VMI, a really nice fellow

there, and they live in Winchester, Virginia. She's a retired school teacher and

currently works at the admissions office of Shenandoah University, so kind of a

quick background of our family there.

David: Yeah. And so you were raised here in Roanoke?

Sam: Yes. I grew up with... I don't remember personally a lot about it because I

was little, but when I was about a year and a half old, the Second World War

started up.

And the company 00:03:00here at that point was called John C. Senter Company. It was

named after my father's uncle. Started in the upstairs storage area of a garage

out in southwest Roanoke behind his house. Anyway, but pretty much a lot of

businesses like the construction shut down. So my father was too old to go on

active duty, so we moved to Kingsport, Tennessee when I was about a year and a

half old. And he worked for the Holston Ordinance, which is very similar to the

Radford Arsenal that we know now, and they made the propellant bags for the

heavy cruisers and battleship guns and so forth. So I kind of 00:04:00grew up until I

was about five years old and the War ended out in Kingsport. A lot of memories

of blackout curtains and air raid warnings.

One thing that kind of sticks in my mind, I had to have my tonsils out, so they

took me to the doctor's office. I don't know why I remember it, but I remember

it. He laid me on his desk and put a ether rag over my face, took my tonsils out

and when I woke up my mama gathered me up and took me home and fixed me some

soup and off we went. [Laughs] That's the way it went.

But I was very proud of my dad to work, because it was pretty dangerous what

they made. So we moved back here in 1945 when my sister was born. Dad went to

work with the company, Uncle John and in 1950 Uncle John retired. We always

called him Uncle John; Uncle John retired and my father took it over. At that 00:05:00point changed the name to Lionberger and with that point it was S. Lewis

Lionberger Company, and now it's just Lionberger Construction, anyway, but he

was a wonderful man.

I guess reminiscing, one of the things that I remember about Uncle John was he

absolutely Well, he loved to build, but he also loved to fly. And he flew some

of the first air mill, from the Richmond area in to Roanoke in an open cockpit

plane, landing in what was then just a farm field out where Valley View Mall is

now. He would tell us stories of the farmers lighting bonfires for the pilots

that flew in along the way. And every once in a 00:06:00while, in the summer if a

thunderstorm came up sometimes you'd have to turn around and go back and outrun

it. [Laughs]

But he was a wonderful builder. But apart from that, I think one of the things

that impressed me was, it was sort of a life changing experience because, you

think, oh, well, everybody has a job and you know, you grow up... In the '30s he

was the low bidder of a big high school in Roanoke called William Fleming High

School. He also built a lot of landmarks, built a lot of the airport, built the

Ponce de Leon Hotel and things like that downtown. But on that particular job I

can remember him sitting and telling me why the 00:07:00value of a job was so important,

and the value of integrity. The morning after he had submitted the bid and was

announced he was the low bidder, before any contractor was [00:06:55 ], he said,

"I woke up and there were over 200 men standing on the lawn at my house in total

silence looking for a job." And that, I mean, it gets to me even today to talk

about something like, that we didn't realize how those times were back then. It

was tough.

So anyway, things went along. Dad took it over. I went through Virginia Heights

Elementary School onto Woodrow Wilson Junior High School, and Jefferson High

School which is closed now. And didn't think much about going to Virginia Tech.

Everybody in my family for three or four generations had gone to Roanoke

College, so it was just assumed I would go to Roanoke College, but I really kind

of did enjoy the concept of building. So as a teenager in the summers I went to

work. I kind of laugh about it, that dad said he really wanted me to learn the

construction business from the ground up, and he gave me a pick and shovel and I

started going the wrong way the first day, the ground down. And we dug them then

but we didn't have a lot of equipment. 00:08:00And then we were building a church in

southwest Roanoke, and I guess about my third summer or so, and I was rolling

gravel and rolling concrete and general labor stuff, for some reason it seemed

like I had the world's biggest wheelbarrow. At least they filled it up that way

on me, but he came out with the superintendent and was standing... I was in the

foundation standing up and he said, "Well, do you think Sam is ready for a

hammer?" And at that time, if you carried a claw hammer you were considered a

carpenter's helper, so I'm really excited, I'm getting a promotion. It had 00:09:00nothing to do with union or anything, it was just a tradition.

Unfortunately, I guessed wrong and the hammer that he gave me had a big air hose

hooked to a compressor. And he put me on a jackhammer all summer long in the

basement of another church that we were working on. [Laughs] And I mean, you get

an appreciation, but I laughed. I had a lot of muscles that summer, I just

couldn't eat soup. [Laughs] But you know, and I credit my dad, I loved my dad,

but it taught me how to work with the men that eventually I would come to

supervise, and how to respect for what they did.

David: Was that his plan do you think?

Sam: Oh yes. Oh yeah, very much so. He very much cared for his workers. To this

day, 92 years old, we have never laid a superintendent off because of lack of

work in the history of the company. We've had to let some go who didn't measure

up, but 00:10:00he cared so... And not only that, but for their families. We tried to do

the same thing and we're very proud. We have several families that are third,

three, and one would have been fourth generation with our company. And it just

means a lot to me, because I learned so much from those guys. And they were kind

enough to teach me. I mean, I'm not an accomplished carpenter or whatever, but

they took the time. I can remember dad saying, "You walk on a job, if you see

the men straining under a load or something you jump under there. I don't care

if you've got a tuxedo on and do it." And the men, I think, kind of 00:11:00 realized

that I wasn't some high and mighty thing. When they'd come in the office here I

kind of had a thing ... I liked to see them. I don't care if I'm on the phone. I

don't care if your shoes are full of mud. Just say hi. I just want to talk,

because a lot of people think that in a construction company it's the boss that

does everything. To be honest with you, if I were building you a building, my

field superintendent or the carpenters will have far more interaction with you

than I will. They're the real salesmen for our company. Our workers sell more

contracts... And the owners would say, "I want Joe or I want Billy or Jerry to

be the superintendent." And they'll wait for them, which really means a lot.

I guess I was just really lucky that... if I put it truthfully, I probably

hadn't worked too many days in my life. I love to build. If I 00:12:00could stay away 24

hours a day, I'd build 24 hours a day. I just loved it.

David: It really comes across, even when you were talking about Uncle John, I

could hear the admiration if your voice when you said he loves to build. So you

really were raised with that.

Sam: That was it.

David: Was there ever any doubt?

Sam: But my father never pushed me to come into construction. My mother did, but

my father didn't.

David: But was there ever any doubt in your mind?

Sam: Not really. Not after I knew what I wanted to do. So anyway, 1958 I

graduated from Jefferson High School and went on to Virginia Tech and entered

the Cadet Corp, not quite the way I had intended. In July of that year 00:13:00I was hit

head-on by a drunk driver, and I didn't walk away from it. I busted my arm and

messed up my knee and so forth. So I entered Virginia Tech with my arm in a

cast, as a rat, a freshman, and went through, but got through everything. And

had some wonderful upperclassmen that didn't cut me any slack, but

they...fortunately by the time September in six weeks time I wasn't maybe a

month with that kind of thing, but I just grew to love Virginia Tech.

David: So you were starting to say... I'm sorry to interrupt, but Roanoke

College was where the family had 00:14:00gone, but what drew you to Tech was the

construction program?

Sam: Yes. Roanoke College, good liberal arts college. I'm still tied into

Roanoke College because I was the first one not to go. My father and his brother

and...a lot of, almost all the family went to Roanoke College. Being Lutherans

and being it's a Lutheran school. So I did still chair a post-graduate course

there called the Management Institute that... Kind of an odd thing, but I was

talking with Melinda Cox who is the development director for Roanoke County and

this is 26 years ago, and it's hard to believe 26 years ago, and we were having

lunch and we were kind of talking about things that would help the Valley. And

the Chamber of Commerce has a program they call Leadership Roanoke Valley, which

is very good, but there's really nothing that tied businesses together.

So we literally came up with this idea over lunch on a napkin 00:15:00that we

called...eventually called the Management Institute, where you could get people

in various disciplines, insurance, banking legal, manufacturing, whatever and if

you're in middle management of a company coming up, you're kind of [00:15:11]

about your job.

But as you move up the higher levels of responsibility you've got to broaden

that. And that's what the Management Institute does, is it goes through the

things, ethics, upsizing, downsizing, a lot more global type things taught then.

So she and I took it to Roanoke College and they said that it sounded

interesting, and so it was kind of a pilot and it started and we had one little

quirk. The quirk was, we limited it to about 20 students, because that's all

they could accommodate, and so we set up a thing that could only be three from

any one discipline things, so we got a 00:16:00cross-section. And then the thing was,

you can't apply to it. The only way you could get in is to be nominated by your

boss who then it's an honor, saying, hey, I have confidence in you and you're

coming up, one exception being if you are the boss. So if you're the proprietor

of a company you could do it. But anyway, it's just caught on and we celebrated

our 25th last year, 25 years of success. So Roanoke College didn't let me go.

[Laughs] They made me pay a price for going to Virginia Tech. I guess I laugh

about it.

David: What a great project though. And how that must draw the community

together too, just building on that.

Sam: Oh, it does, and it builds on leadership, and it's taught by the senior

professors and the department heads, so Roanoke College puts a lot of emphasis

on it and it's been special to me. So I don't know, I've been head of it since

it was. I'm trying to tell them it's time to get somebody else. [Laughs] So

anyway went into Tech and at that time I enrolled in building 00:17:00 construction,

which was a part of the College of Architecture. Had a wonderful professor who

was really a father image to a lot of us. And Bill Fabral, F-A-B-R-A-L, Bill

Fabral. He was just of such a personable professor, to us very knowledgeable,

but he took a really...and we weren't just a number. We were a real person. He

would have us over to his house very often and we'd talk about things and so

forth. And he would push us and then we also had to take some courses in

architecture, the 00:18:00traditional core courses as you start up.

I remember, kind of funny... I'm drawing a blank. Stop the thing just a minute.

There was a professor in architecture whose name was Dean Carter, who was a very

well-known sculptor but also a very good professor. He's in his 90s now, and I

hope he's still alive. I haven't had any contact with him. But we had to take

first year architecture, and I was maybe an average draftsman, but I wasn't a

super draftsman, and then you had to do these collages with paper, all this

crazy stuff. And I asked him one day when he was going to start teaching me

building. And he said, [laughing] "Remember, you can't build anything Lionberger 00:19:00until somebody designs it." [Laughs] So okay. But, and we had a fun kind of

going at each other. It turned out, for whatever reason, I got the award for the

Outstanding Freshman in the College of Architecture my freshman year and he had

to give me the award. And it was real funny. So he says, "Well, I'm not sure my

heart's really in it." But we became very good friends and I loved him dearly.

He's an institution at Tech, he's very well known. It's people like that that

Virginia Tech has that a lot of schools don't have that really care about me.

And that's one of the things that I will always appreciate about Virginia Tech

is how much they cared about me.

David: Were there others like that for you?

Sam: Oh, yeah. Of course, Favre was my primary one and he felt that way.

Professor Atkins, 00:20:00and there are a lot of others. Then also the Cadet Corp meant

so much to me because of the camaraderie. I mean, of course at that time you

unless you had already been in the military you had to be in the Corp at least

two years. But probably half the people stayed in. I stayed in all four years

and got my commission and then went on into the Corp of Engineers.

Along the way somehow I messed up and got elected president of my class. I

didn't realize at that time that it was a permanent position, so I'd also get to

run all the reunions. 00:21:00We had a lot of fun times. And I was honored enough to be

in the different association clubs and things. But the thing I remember, Ring

Dance, is the big, of course, social thing of your cadet career there.

This was in 1961, yeah, 1961. The country was still in a period of segregations.

And while there had been some other African American students at Tech, we had

the first one in the Corp. 00:22:00Socially at that point events were still segregated,

but he wanted to come to Ring Dance. He was part of the class. I don't know all

the...but it was sort of suggested to him that maybe, can't tell him he can't

come, but it was strongly suggested... Well, he and I spent a lot of time

together. I liked him, a great guy, and our position was as students he was a

member of the class. And there was some conflict with the university. I don't

want to go into a lot, but anyway, the Dean of Student Affairs, others got into

it and there were some political threats made against the dance and maybe even

an injunction to stop it. You can take... put your place, a little junior at

Virginia Tech's never done anything like this, and the resolution that we

reached is he did come, but he was to sit in the balcony of the [War] Memorial

Gym where we held the Ring Dance. Well, my date and I sat up there too, and

everything...and he came and it all worked out fine. It all worked out fine, but 00:23:00I learned a lot about people and how things change. You know today I don't care

if a person's red, black, white. I could care less. And that's the way we were.

He was a wonderful guy about it. He was brought up in...but he was there. That

was the key.

David: Well, I think it's interesting that you sat up there in the balcony with

him. Was that a difficult decision for you to make?

Sam: Not for me. No. I thought that was good. And he was in the [00:05:38

figure]. He didn't sit up there long either. We took care of that. Once the

thing got going it was pretty easy to take care of. But it was a lot of fun. It

was a... Of 00:24:00course didn't have Castle Coliseum or anything; it was under

construction. As I recall, we built kind of a...

We had Woody Herman as the band and the Four Lads sang, were the singing group.

We built kind of fake front of a southern mansion and the engineers developed a

moon. Of course you know the beautiful song Moonlight, VPI, the moon they

engineered it so it went across the gym during the dance. I sure am glad you're

building Castle Coliseum because it was a nice scrap lumber that we to build it,

and it 00:25:00was a real special occasion. Now, I don't talk too much about it because

my wife was not the date I took to Ring Dance and she often reminds me of that.

So, went on to senior year and things went along and then got my commission.

David: And you were class president your senior year?

Sam: Yeah, I'm still class president. [Laughs] That's one you can't end. So

anyway, I got my... My mother and father were very very kind and they thought,

well, you're going in the army engineer so they'll probably send you out to Fort

Leonard Wood in Missouri which is 50 miles from nowhere, so they gave me a trip

to Europe as a graduation present. And I went to Europe and went over on the

Queen Mary and came home on the Queen Elizabeth, and I was with about 30

something other college kids. 00:26:00We were stuck in the bottom of the ship, but we

didn't really care. We had a ball. And so after getting back, then I figured I'd

got to Leonard Wood. I got my orders and it sent me right back to Europe. And I

was originally... My skill was a combat engineer. I guess that's when you're

young and stupid. But with my construction background and the fact that it was

the Cold War era they needed construction count, so they shifted me to a

construction engineer.

So in January I shipped out to... Well, I went to Fort Belmar [00:08:35] for my

training. A 00:27:00fellow that really worked me over but became good friends was a guy

named Lou [00:08:40 Shubert]. He was an all-American at VMI. [Laughs]

David: Keeps coming back.

Sam: [Laughs] But a good guy, a really wonderful guy and he did his job very well.

And my wife's family came here from Schenectady, New York. Her dad was with the

General Electric Corporation and was with the original group that came and

opened the General Electric Plant in Salem. We were not too happy about these

'Yankees' coming down here, and I was terribly jealous. Her folks and my folks

happened to play in a bridge club together, so that's how we ended up meeting. I

was so jealous of her because she had a swimming pool at her house and we

didn't. But anyway, so we got together 00:28:00and in December before I shipped out we

got engaged to be married, and at that time she was attending William and Mary.

So after...and we decided we would wait until I would maybe come home and get

married, but then after it was... I kid people, I say it was cold as heck over

in Europe and so I decided we'd get married sooner, [laughs] so we got married

in the following September. And then she was able at that point to come over

with me, and she was only 19 years old at the time, and to leave home and go to

Europe, not only to be married, but for what we were facing over 00:29:00 there.

David: And where were you stationed there?

Sam: I was originally stationed in a place called Toul-Rosieres, which is not

too far from the big city of Nancy. Nancy was a pretty good size city, about the

size of Roanoke, and Toul-Rosieres was about the size of Salem. It was the site

of an early World War I air base. A lot of people, including my wife's

grandfather, flew out of there. And then we did construction work in and around

that area with D Company 97th Engineers.

I remember reporting for duty and the first morning we got up and my commander

was an airborne ranger West Pointer. And you do the exercise called the Army

Daily Dozen, except the street had about three inches of ice on it. It was so

cold, so we had to put gloves on so that our hands wouldn't stick, but we still

did them because the army said you have to do them. A wonderful guy... He and I

... He's a West Point graduate as I said, but just a good commander and we

became very very good friends, but also he was a 00:30:00demanding commander and I

learned a lot from him.

And I remember reporting in and then he said, "Okay, Lieutenant, you go in and

see the first sergeant and he will tell you what all..." So I get in there and

the sergeant then was Singleton. And the first question he asked me, he says,

"Lieutenant, you know who runs the army?" And I said, "Yessir, I think I know

who runs the army, and it isn't the lieutenants." And he said, "You're right."

He says, "The NCOs run the army." [Laughs] And we just became very good friends.

And I did a lot of construction work over there. We had a little problem from

time to time because this is still not that far after World War II. 00:31:00And in the

depots and they were beginning to assimilate a lot of material there just

because of the tensions with the Russians, but some of the East German, they put

spies ... but they get into the depots and try to sabotage some things. So

that's what part of we had to do, patrols and so forth, and we actually had the

killer dogs. They were trained by the Polish...a lot of the Polish army people

who survived and they trained them. Several times at night you'd go along a

patrol by a fence and those dogs would hit that fence and it will scare the fire

out of you. Two East Germans got in the depot one night and the dogs got to them

before the guys did, and they didn't kill them but they took a few chunks out of

them, but after that we didn't have too much problem. Every once in a while

doing construction we'd might 00:32:00run over an old mine or something of that nature.

One time it was enough to separate the treads, but most of them had gotten

pretty weak by then, but we still had to watch out for them.

David: So you had been a teenager during the Korean War, right?

Sam: Yes.

David: And then you're over there and then Vietnam is on the horizon.

Sam: Vietnam, had I stayed in, I would probably have gone to Vietnam, but at

that point dad was getting ready to retire and I had done my time and so, I'll

get down the road and I'll tell you. I was still involved, whatever. So yeah, I

stayed in the reserves for eight years. I was a captain when I got out of the

reserves. A very meaningful Captain Johnston who was my commander nominated me

for the Army Accommodation Medal, which I was honored to receive after I got

back 00:33:00here for work.

We had one project to take a hangar, a airplane hangar, and it was 200 feet

wide, 50 feet high clear span. And it was about 300 feet long, and it was

theoretically designed to be portable. My idea of portable and the government's

idea of portable were a little different. But it had laid on the end of a runway

since the late '40s and they never put it up, so we were given the job of

putting it up. It was the largest construction project underway that the Corp of

Engineers had underway anywhere in the world using Army troops. It was in

[00:15:40 Brianne Chateau], and that's when my wife came over and joined me at

that time. We 00:34:00were in [Brianne 00:15:48].

David: And you were in charge of that project?

Sam: Well, the company, our company was in charge. Captain Johnston was kind of

the one, but the company we each had things to do and it was interesting. But we

still had to meet Corp of Engineer specifications, but we didn't have much

equipment. We actually mixed concrete in a little highway paver and carried it

in dump trucks. I mean, you think about things... The concrete we got was French

concrete and it was pretty halfway hard anyway, it wasn't the best quality, but

we still...a lot of things, but we got it done. The interesting thing was though

it was the largest project in the world in our Army troops and it went along

really pretty good. But you see there are also fun because it was a military

base that they had army 00:35:00aircraft there, the light aircraft and helicopters. And

we'd put the frames up and everything and we'd be working, those nuts would come

and fly through the hanger underneath. I could have dropped a wrench down and

taken a helicopter out, but it was a good time. I was just very fortunate.

Then I had a serious thing. I had to go to Berlin on assignment, and I couldn't

take my wife with me. At that time, the Cold War, we were going to drive in, so

we went to the little town of Helmstadt and that's where we got an orientation

and they showed us photographs of every intersection. And don't pay any

attention to the road signs, because the Germans they would turn them around and

try to throw you off, and if you got off, they had the right to arrest you. And

so we 00:36:00also had to go through Russian checkpoints to get a pass to go through the

East German checkpoint because the United States didn't recognize the East

German government. So remember we're just 19 and 20 years old.

...21 then. And we went along fine until we got to the Russian checkpoint

outside of Berlin and went in and presented my orders. And I don't exactly know

why, but all of a sudden two Russian soldiers with machine guns ran out to

either end of our car and they held us there about 40-45 minutes. I didn't speak

Russian. I just smiled and hoped they were in a good mood too, but eventually

they let us go. So we went on into Berlin. Berlin was a nice, 00:37:00bustling city.

Still some remnants of the war, but a nice bustling city. We were able though to

go on an escorted trip over through what was then Checkpoint Charlie. Go through

the wall, into East Berlin. West Berliners were not allowed to go into East

Berlin. That's probably the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life. The

pictures that you see here don't do justice at all. I mean to build a wall to

keep people in, but that was what faced West Berlin. What you didn't see behind

it were the other lines of barbed wire fences and the mine field, and it was

like 50 yards.

And there were buildings, if it was on the border you would see windows just

blocked up, everything. The fence ran along the top with heavy 00:38:00heavy jagged

glass in the barbed wire. But got out there and in East Berlin there were broad

avenues and what appeared to be nice buildings. Almost all of them had a red

drape of [00:20:02] on it. But being a builder I kind of looked at things a

little differently, and it didn't take too long to realize that probably a third

of the buildings were stage fronts and it was just rubble behind it. And there

weren't many people out and very few cars. They would stop and tell us things.

People there could see we were Americans because of the uniform. I've never

looked in the eyes of somebody and seen hopelessness, and I really learned what

freedom was all about that day, and it changed my whole 00:39:00life. Freedom isn't free

and it's not permanent and it's not something you take for granted. I mean those

people looking you know and I could go back and probably they had relatives on

the other side of the wall over there. It was a very somber sobering day and it

changed my whole outlook from that point on.

So anyway, so eventually we came home. Well the other thing that happened, I was

there when unfortunately President Kennedy was assassinated. We had some people

over to our apartment and at that time we were living kind of downtown and we

had no TV or no computers. We had a radio, an armed forces radio, and the first

reports we got were that President Johnson had been shot. Then pretty quickly it

changed to no, it was Kennedy. We didn't know if he was 00:40:00alive. But then the

alerts went off because we didn't know if it was some balloons going up, we

didn't know. And here is my 19-year-old wife and she had to take the car. Now we

did have to keep some water, some C-rations and blankets in the back of the car

and we had to keep the tank always half full, that was a requirement so that if

something did occur she was to get in the car. She had a map to get back into a

little further in toward Western France. The Western coast of France faces the

United States so we can get away. And then the government would commandeer my

car. Never knew whether they would pay me for it or not, but then they would try

to get the dependents out and we would go do what we had to do and I would

revert to a combat engineer.

So this went on and then we found out it was the alert and then finally they

realized 00:41:00it wasn't an attack. I didn't really understand the charisma of

Kennedy, but the Europeans loved him. They were far more emotional about his

death than Americans were. The paper the next morning out in the street had a

big deadline Kennedy is Dead and the French would come up and they would hug you

and they were crying. They would say, "I'm so sorry," and really a closeness

there. But anyway, that was a life-changing time too.

David: That must have been a stressful time before you really knew what was

going on.

Sam: Oh yeah, we didn't know. I mean I put on my steel helmet and told my wife

goodbye. 19 years old. 00:42:00I'm 23...yeah. But we knew what we were in for. We knew

why we were there and we had to do it and so we did it, and so did everybody

else that was there. It wasn't just me.

David: That just speaks to that time during that Cold War, the feeling that

anything could happen at any moment.

Sam: Exactly, exactly. And we knew...

We had already practiced. One time one of the projects I was involved in, they

did a massive undertaking, the first time they had ever done it called Operation

Big Lift, and they flew the airlift and the entire 4th Army Division from Ft.

Hood Texas to a place called [Sheterva 00:24:19] in France which was

Eisenhower's headquarters during the Second World War for a time. It happened to

be an airfield there, and here I am a little junior 2nd lieutenant and my

platoon was assigned to 00:43:00build a 4,000-man tent camp along this runway at this

airport. Then the rest of the company was back, they would build some of the

things that we needed to support us, but we were the field crew. It was

interesting to build all that stuff.

I remember I got so mad. There was a major who I guess was trying to get further

up, but he insisted that I survey in the tent pegs so they were really straight,

so when the general flew over to land it would look beautiful, and I'm just

trying to keep them out of the mud you know.

David: 4,000 tents. [Laughs]

Sam: Yeah, anyway. So we had to build some access roads off the runways and were

kind of spread out, so I guess I'm used to it. 00:44:00So I took the bulldozer and I

just go along and grade the road because I go by the various platoons and I

would see it, and the captain just flipped out. So they made me wear tans

instead of fatigues for a while because I was too close to the work. [Laughs] So

anyway we built the camp. The guys came. They flew the 4th Army. It was

successful. These are just little things coming to mind, but as they pulled out

to go other places one of the things in the Army is you police your area or you

clean up. Well this one battalion pulled out and they didn't do a very good job.

Here I'm a 2nd lieutenant, but I called my captain and I said, "I don't mind

building the tents, I don't mind building the latrines, but I just don't feel

like I'm the garbage man." And he said, "Well I think you're 00:45:00right." I thought

okay. I was going on to do something else, and my jeep driver came up and said,

"Lieutenant there's a general that wants to talk to you." A general? Uh, okay.

So I knocked the dust off my boots and I go in and report to this Brigadier

General, found out he was the Deputy Division Commander of the 4th Army Division.

"Lieutenant I understand you've got a problem." Well I'm not going to lie to

him. I mean I happen to be a judge in the Honor Court when I was at Tech and I'm

not going to lie to him. I said, "No sir, this is what I think." I said, "We

should clean up the area" He said, "Well I went out there and looked at it." I

thought okay, he's going to say get your butt out there and clean it up. He

said, "You're right. I turned that battalion around, they're coming back." And I

saluted and said, "Thank you sir; I'm kind of busy." [Laughs] And I got out and

figured he would find me hanging from a tree somewhere. Little things like that

that tell you it meant a lot to me as a lieutenant that a general would say that.

David: And you mentioned the Tech Honor Court, so something from Tech that was 00:46:00playing out for you.

Sam: Yeah. I started out I was sergeant arms and then secretary and we had two

judges...class schedule, so I was one of the judges. But you know there was one

of the wonderful people -- gosh it's all coming back, named Lawrence Koontz. Now

Lawrence went on to become a member of the Junior Supreme Court, but he was the

defense attorney one year. We didn't have many cases obviously and gladly, but

if a student got off with what we might have considered a little bit lighter

sentence Lawrence would take them back to one of the rooms of the Squires Center

and it was worse than the Honor Corp. And he did more to straighten people out

and I have always had the highest respect for him for that, because 00:47:00he was a

student too. I mean he was a year ahead, he was a senior. But I just thought

that was...that he took a real interest and we saved a lot of kids. I mean he

did a lot.

But that's what that Honor Court does for. I think it's one of the traditions of

Tech that's so good and we still maintain that and it's student-run as opposed

to faculty-run, and I think that's part of the character of Virginia Tech. At

least I liked him and he was a good judge on the Supreme Court. He's retired now.

David: Why is it important that its student-run?

Sam: Because it's our school and it's our Honor Code, student-run Honor Code. I

think with the faculty...one of those people doing it. It's a 'we' thing. It's

why we are 00:48:00in the Cadet Corp. It's why we teach the honor and integrity of being

a cadet.

And it's passed down from class to class to class to class because we value

that. I mean you don't lie. You don't lie, cheat, or steal. I mean you don't

sort of lie, sort of cheat, you don't, and I just think the fact that it was

student-run it means more to the students than the faculty. The faculty had a

lot of other things they had to do, but that's part of the cadets. I just think

it's an integrity builder you know. A lot of fun. Oh gosh, here we go on to

senior year and some of the people happen to be on staff my senior year.

...Commandant, my senior year 00:49:00because I still had class president duties to do

and it was really fun.

And we lived in the tower at Eggelston Hall. Band company, the highty tighties

lived in a portion of Eggelston Hall too. They were our protectors, because one

of the deals with the freshman is you are supposed the throw the staff in the

Duck Pond. Well we didn't worry about it at all because we had the band there

you know. And they had some [00:31:24] some 00:50:00raids. At that time they had

commandants or assistant commandants who actually lived in the barracks up on

[00:31:35] Hall and Eggleston and so forth. And everything worked okay until the

spring of my senior year when one night my room was filled with members of the

highty tighties who did escort me to the Duck Pond. [Laughs] And I can tell you

why it's called the Duck Pond, but...yeah. [Laughs] But you know that's part of

the fun. We did a lot of pranks and a lot of stuff. At that time you didn't have

to be in the military, but we had a lot of people come back from Korea at that

time too, so those guys were half crazy. Lots of stuff happened.

David: What was that like? There's the Corp, but then you've got some veterans

coming back in. What was that like? 00:51:00Sam: Well sometimes, one that they kind of thought it was a little Mickey Mouse

sometimes. We had never been in combat and things like that, whatever, but some

of them were really good, and they do some crazy stuff now and then. See they

didn't have to be in the Cadet Corp, but what they were on was the GI Bill, so

they also valued that educational experience. It was just kind of fun. Then of

course the football was picking up at that time. We didn't have Lane Stadium. We

didn't have Castle Coliseum.

My class was actually the very first class to see basketball in the coliseum,

the senior class, but there were no seats in it. We sat on the concrete risers.

David: Where was basketball played before then?

Sam: In the War Memorial Gym, not a very good place for visiting team. If you're

coming for a layup and of course the basket is here and you're not going to stop

when you get 00:52:00here, well the football players all sat there and you would end up

about 20 rows up with a few kidney punches on the way down. [Laughs] Anyway. And

I remember we played Florida State. Florida State was ranked #3 in the country

and they had this famous end named Fred Balitnickoff and we beat them and he was

so mad he threw a football all the way over Miles Stadium.

The dining hall, we made a lot of fun at the dining hall. Sunday nights when you

would come back, you had been home, you had come home and they would have what

we affectionately called mystery meat. We don't know what it was when it was

delivered. We couldn't tell what it was. And some nights you could play baseball

with the rolls they were so hard.

David: Have you eaten there lately?

Sam: Oh yes.

David: It's a change.

Sam: Now we're #1 or 2 in the country you 00:53:00know. But you know, pranks and back

then they put in a tray conveyor, because we used to have to carry out stuff.

One day they were dissecting a little piglet or something and he brought it over

there and they put it on a tray, stuffed it full of napkins and just before it

went through they lit it with a match and it goes down. And I remember now, I

can hear now the screaming of the ladies, "Ah!" But then it started backing up

and the tray starting [peeling off the line.] They told us what would happen if

we ever did that again. But overall you know, we had one time that unfortunately

they get a hold of something... Now you can't put this too much in your thing,

it 00:54:00was in the spring and there was some bad meat that got in there and we all

got diarrhea. I mean we were wearing white uniforms and it lasted for about a

week. Somebody would be walking down in front of Burruss Hall and all of a

sudden you would see them take of running. We almost demanded that the governor

come down and eat some of it. [Laughs]

David: You laugh about it now, but at the time...

Sam: So anyway, so I came home from the service and came back here and began to

get back involved with Tech and I was asked to serve on the alumni board for

several terms, which was a big honor.

And then from there involved in several other things, including the Smith

Mountain Lake 4H Center, which is tied in the foundation. And that's where 00:55:00I met

a man who also was a very strong mentor to me, his name is Bill Skelton and that

center is named after him. Bill headed up the Extension Service of Tech. He was

also the International President of Rotary I believe it was, just a great guy.

We were kind of building the thing along, so I finally found out he was the one

behind a nomination that I got the Distinguished Alumni Award. I guess it was

1999, which I was totally surprised. I can remember going to his house and he

had this little study, a little office and he would go in and sit down and he

would talk about weather for maybe a minute. Then he would pull out his 00:56:00 pad,

"Okay Lionberger, this is your assignment," and give me a report on everything.

Yes sir Dr. Skelton, but we loved him dearly. We just loved him dearly. And now

that 4H Center and through the generosity of a lot of other people including

Marshall Hahn and others it's probably the #1 4H Center in America. A lot of

people don't know what's down there, and it's part of Virginia Tech. And I have

[00:37:50], but it's such a great place. A lot of lives have been changed down there.

Then got in the building, I was part of the steering committee for the [capita

campaign, the billion dollar campaign], and I've just done different things. I

kind of draw a blank as to why it is, but 00:57:00along three years ago, it was right

after the bad day there at Tech, I remember the day very well it happened. We

were building an addition to the high school up there. My nephew who was the one

in the Navy Seals was at the Osteopathic College and they put a lot of those

kids there to help the rescuers you know. We never thought something like could

ever happen at Virginia Tech and it did. It was just something none of us could believe.

Anyway, the next morning I had a meeting I already scheduled with the Chief

Operations Officer at the hospital and I called him up and I said, "Do you want

to meet?" He said, "Yeah, the state police have the high school cordoned off 00:58:00 and

I'm just directing traffic so to speak." So we went up there and met and learned

about some of the stuff. They were trying everything they could to get in and

get interviews. Of course they wanted the dramatic stuff and whatever. The

police kept them out and Blacksburg...they actually ended up putting porta-johns

out in the parking lot. They wouldn't let the media in because they were so

badly... And you would drive up to the alumni center and there were probably 100

satellite trucks out there. And bless their heart the students put a little

paper on every satellite truck that said 'please go away. Leave us alone and let

us deal with it.'

The funny thing, when I pulled up that morning there were three reporters, these

people running to my car. I didn't hardly get the door open. 00:59:00And one of them, he

was I remember from the Los Angeles Times and so, "Are you a doctor? Are you a

doctor?" And I said, "No, I'm a builder." He said, "Oh." That made me mad

because I like to build. [Laughs] They were trying to get somebody to ease them

into the hospital. I mean just all kind of stuff. But the outpouring of... We

play UVA a lot, I mean they are our competitor, but John Casteen and UVA and

other schools, I mean we saw what it meant, what friendship meant. I would be

very happy to see some kind of a memorial or a monument to John Casteen because

he was the rock. And to go into Squires Hall or others and see the flowers and

everything, I mean I you would cry. I mean you just couldn't help but not do it.

But, that kind of changed everything. Well it was 01:00:00about that time that later,

right after that I got a call that Charles couldn't come because he was

obviously tied up with this stuff. And so Dr. Flanagan came and [Ray 00:41:48]

came with her. I'll think in a minute, but I met at Salem and that's when they

told me that I was going to get the Ruffner medal, and I cried.

I still do. I mean I've never had anything like that happen to me. I'm just a

graduate of Virginia Tech you know.

David: What did it mean? Why did you have that response?

Sam: Well, I mean that's an award they gave to like 01:01:00[00:42:26], people of that

statute. I'm not in that group. I mean I admire all those people. I was happy to

do whatever I do, but I never... It just blew me away. It still blows me away.

So now you know next year I'll go in as president elect, or this year's

president elect of the Old Guard. I think they just... If you're an old class

president then you've got [laughs] [00:42:57] the Old Guard. But still it's a

place I just never really left there and I don't ever want to leave there.

There's something about Virginia Tech that it's not like any other college

university, and I'm chairman of Ferrum College right now, a small college. I

would love for it to have that aura that Virginia Tech has, you know,

camaraderie of students. 01:02:00I use the Honor Code. I use a lot of things at Ferrum

to try to motivate. And it's a good school but of course much smaller, but to

bring along that...

It's like trying to define what a Hokie is you know, and it's very very hard to

do. One of my friend's said, "Well it's a [turftee] with a lot of integrity that

will kick your rear-end," [laughs]. But what tech produces the quality of the

students, and that's why we're moving up every year and the employers are coming

because they know our kids get a good Corp foundation, what you and I might call

the old reading, writing, and arithmetic. But when they graduate they're ready

to go to work and they become productive for an employer 01:03:00faster than somebody

that's unfortunately got a lot of way out stuff that you've got to unlearn they

learned. At Tech they teach you nobody owes you anything. Just because you

graduated doesn't mean anything, but it gives you those skills that you can

count on. It doesn't matter what you go into, you get that Corp value. But it's

also that integrity and that honor of truthfulness and how you work with other

people. It's so hard for me to put into words what Tech means to me and what it

means to everybody that's graduated, not just me.

I'm sure it means the same thing to everybody else, why that school and why we

stay connected, because we don't ever want to leave. We just go up there... I

didn't tell anybody about it, I was very proudly, the daughter-in-law that was 01:04:00Virginia's Junior Miss back when they had the Junior Miss programs. And she went

on to Tech; remember the High Techs and she was also Ms. Montgomery County while

she was there. But she and my son got involved with the state pageant for Junior

Miss and we had only had four boys, so we keep three girls. One year three of

the girls, we had three girls and I think two of them came and they had been at

the house 10 or 15 minutes maybe before we started talking about Virginia Tech.

And one girl said, "Well they just have cows grazing out there on the drill

field." And I said, "What?" And she was from Eastern Virginia. I couldn't handle

it and I was supposed to not take them out of Roanoke County, but about 11

o'clock that night I had them riding around the drill field at Virginia Tech and

we were eating pizza and stuff and they learned a little bit. [Laughs] I

violated every rule [laughs].

It's so hard to put into words 01:05:00what it's like, but I've been on a lot of other

campuses and I've never seen anything like that. One of my relatives, my

nephew's son I just took him up there a couple of weeks ago, and of course it's

grown so much, but the walking around and he's tried to apply to Tech. I think

he will get in okay, but he said, "Sam it's just different here isn't it?

Everybody speaks to you." I said, "Yeah, most people do. That's what we're

supposed to do." And of course he loved it. The campus sells itself; it's so

beautiful. And he said, "You know I think I would really like to be here." You

can't hardly find much wrong with Virginia Tech. And then of course with all our

new people coming in, Dr. 01:06:00Sands, athletics does a lot with it. I'm a member of

the Hacking Hokies. We support the golf team. I guess that's a pretty good name

for us, for our golf skills.

But like this winter we were in Florida. I get a call from Coach Hardwick, the

golf coach. "Come on over, we're playing Mission Hills." We went over and he met

us, met all the team. We didn't take a lot of time because they were in their

tournament which we won, but for him to take the time out for someone like me,

just to call me up to come all the way... It wasn't far over there, but to come

just because he knew we were there, and that's class. That's just wonderful. I

get tired of people thinking we're some kind of cow college you know. We're

pretty classy.

David: And as you said 01:07:00you've seen a lot of change. There's been a lot of change

and growth. So what are some of the changes that you've found most interesting

in the long view?

Sam: I think one of the things that has impressed me so much is the growth of

the Corporate Research Center. Joe Meredith is a good friend and we built

several of the buildings in there, the Osteopathic College and so forth. But I

don't think a lot of people realize how far up the chain Virginia Tech is in

research now, and that's part of the future. I don't think they also realize the

solid foundations that we built. We don't push a lot of way-out stuff. I think

that 01:08:00the way we do an orientation now for new kids coming in and I get involved

in that some, called Hokie Camp. You should go over sometime, it's a hoot. But,

think about yourself when you went to college the first time -- who are all

these, I don't have any friends. When you get to Hokie Camp you go up there and

you come down on the bus. You get there and the cheerleaders are cheering and

everybody...and you leave there with 150 or 200 friends, so when you walk back

up the campus to start it's not like you don't anybody. You already know people

and you know the traditions and you know why Virginia Tech is ranked so high in

a lot of employers' minds. It's because we care. We care about people.

The research that's going on up there in the Corporate Research Center is just

phenomenal. I went to a thing for the 01:09:00Cancer Society not long ago and the

speaker was the head of the [Vet] School, and they are doing cancer research and

nobody ever thought Virginia Tech doing medical research? They are kids.

But he said, "We think out of the box. We brought the young engineers in,

electrical engineers in and said maybe there's something we can do together."

And they said, "Well Doc, you're going in..." And they are using animals, and I

don't know a lot about cancer although my wife has had some issues... But cancer

cells don't like to be messed with. Well now they can actually go down and

literally almost hit a cell. And the electrical guy says, "Well I think I can

get a little wire down there and we can zap it." And the head of the [Vet]

School is literally jumping. I mean he's so 01:10:00excited. He said, "We haven't been

able to cure cancer; we've been able to kill it." I mean everybody is standing

and applauding you know. It's just fabulous. That's just one thing and there's

so many other ways.

But Virginia Tech is not afraid to think out of the box. That maybe is one of

the things that sets us aside. It's not the same old same old. It's always new

and of course all the new construction going. I was part of the architecture and

look where architecture is going and building structure. Nowadays people used to

think of people like me, yeah well, he's got a decent car and a saw that's not

too rusty, maybe he can do something. Now construction is a very sophisticated

business. I mean we are very sophisticated. Computers, models and everything

that it takes to do it in today's 01:11:00environment because there's so much

more...buildings are a little more complicated, but you still use the same

principles. But like my dad said, if you shake a man's hand it better be better

than any piece of paper you sign. You don't do it.

He also said...I remember it very clearly, he said you try to give a man a

dollar and a nickel for his dollar you'll have work all the time. You might get

a little low but you will never run out of work and he's right. That's what we

live on. Integrity is #1 at this company. We're not the low bidder. We don't

want to be the low bidder. I used to tell clients price, quality, and time --

choose two. [Laughs]

David: I was just thinking, because you live here, this is where you live, and

it must be nice to be able to drive around and 01:12:00see that your family helped build

this City in some ways.

Sam: I love it. I do. I love driving and see it and the families that built it, yeah.

I remember fun things, like Coach Hartman came to see me one day at Tech, former

baseball coach. And they had kind of a crappy baseball stadium. He said, "Why

don't we build a baseball stadium?" I said, "Okay." So he and I got together and

[raise gifts and 00:54:20] whatever, so we built the stadium. [Laughs] It's kind

of funny. I don't know all the where's and why fors, but the State of Virginia

came in and says, "You can't do that, that's on State property. I see where the

Corporate Research Center is on private property. You can't do that on State

property." Hartman said, "We've already done it." We 01:13:00were getting ready to build

a penthouse you know. Tech doesn't sit back. Tech...he gets things done and now

look at it.

David: So what are your hopes going forward then?

Sam: Oh me. Well, that's a very good question. One, I hope my health...helds up

so far, I'm lucky, because I'd like... I'm really looking forward to the next 25

or 30 years. I don't know, maybe I will make a golf tee time when I'm 95. I

don't know.

David: I wouldn't be surprised.

Sam: I love to stay involved. I love the people, not only at Tech but other

places. I like to stay close enough to the company that I kind of know what's

going on, but I'm not... I've got to back off because my 01:14:00son Sam is ready to run

it. He's doing a good job of running it and he doesn't need me trying to run in

here saying-- I just back him up 100%. It's nice they do give me a refill on my

coffee, [Laughs] when I come in.

I'm somewhat concerned about education today. Well I'm a lot concerned about

education today. What we're seeing now, and this is both from Virginia Tech

Roanoke College and Ferrum, all three, but we're starting to see the number of

graduates starting to flat line, not necessarily the number that goes to

college. And I think we've got to really look at changing our educational

system, particularly one of the things we've got to work on a little bit is with

the community college system which is very 01:15:00good, but now they have gotten to the

point you can go to community college and then if you have a certain grade

average you are guaranteed a slot at Virginia Tech or UVA or whatever.

I had a kid came to me two years ago. He was [00:57:01] 4.0+ graduate, GPA,

wanted to transfer to Tech. We couldn't get him in because the slots were

reserved for community college. So I think we've got to look at that because

once we get them at Tech and they stay there then they will be supporters and

they will become CEOs. At one point we were #3 in the country in the graduates

that are CEOs in major corporations. We may still be, I don't know. And that

doesn't mean they are all A students and whatever. I mean a lot of CEOs are C

students. I 01:16:00was...I'm not sure I could get in Tech now. [Laughs] I think we have

to really look at where we are in the world. We've got to take a more global

perspective. I think unfortunately politics has played an ugly role in

education. When you see that we're ranked #30-something in math skills in

undergraduate education in the world that's pathetic. That's pathetic. We've

done so much screwing around with teaching and the whole thing is kind of a mess

and unfortunately it's the politicians and there's too much politics in

education. We need to get education back to be education.

But we also need to challenge students more. And I think so often we're

expected...well you just go ahead...and 01:17:00everybody has got it, we don't want to

make anybody feel bad. Yeah, you know, I finally found out that 'F' didn't mean

favorite you know. [Laughs] I took second quarter calculus and we had a...you

know what [koofers] are?

David: Hmm.

Sam: Okay. Well I just happened...we got a set of koofers at every quiz hit. So

[00:59:17] and I just pretty soon memorizing that and got in there, and I went

into the exam with about a 90-92 average. The exam I had memorized that sucker,

but it really wasn't the exam I looked at.

David: Oops.

Sam: I got a 47 on the final exam and the professor wrote across the 01:18:00top, "Sam,

don't trust koofers! F." So I retook the course, but I learned a lot from him.

He taught me more in that one little phrase I think than anywhere. [Laughs] But

he did me a favor you know.

Now theoretically even though I had an A average and at that point they could

only drop you two grades so I got a C in the course, but I didn't know calculus.

I don't use it much now, but he taught me something. It was fun. I hadn't

thought about that in a while. But I think we've got to get back to making

education more stimulus. We are the best and freest country in the world. Until

you've been away from the United States you don't realize what we have 01:19:00here. And

then too many people... I'm really worried about this influx of immigrants

coming in and this ISIS and all these things. But the turmoil -- our school

systems are always in turmoil, and there's so much petty stuff going on that

we've got to get back to learning, just pure learning. We're 30th-something in

the world? That's pathetic, and we've been there for a while and we're not

making any progress on it.

And we're still the shining light on the hill to the rest of the world, but I

think we short-change students sometimes by being too easy on them. Most people,

you know you talk to a lot of people in business you know what experience is.

Experience is when you failed because you didn't do something right and you

learn how to do it right. 01:20:00I had an architect, he was an old marine named Roy Kensick and he used to talk

to me about the cold hard business of architecture. But Roy said, "You know,"

one day we were having lunch or something and he says, "Do you want to know what

design really is?" And I said, "Well yeah, tell me." And he said, "It's the

logical discarding of ideas that weren't worth a darn in the first place." [Laughs]

David: I like that.

Sam: But we have to look at things and we have to be creative, but we've got to

get back to our rightful place in the world. I was asked to run for congress by

both parties, which is kind of interesting. I mean I wasn't at the point

economically or anything that I could do it, but I'm 01:21:00still trying to stay

involved somewhat. My wife and I belong to the Heritage Foundation, which

supports the Constitution and I very strongly support the Constitution, and I

think we've got to get back to some of our roots...

And start being the example to a lot of other countries in the world. We can

outdo anybody. We can outdo anybody because that's a part of our American

heritage, but we've got to unloosen the things that are restricting us from

doing it. there's too much sensitivity in racial harmony, too much sensitivity

in other things. Yeah, I can't change the fact that I'm white and somebody else

isn't. But I recall one of the first times I went to build a 01:22:00church that had

predominantly...an African American church. I went in and sat down with the

building committee. Yeah, he noticed, I'm the only white guy, for maybe three or

four minutes. It doesn't matter. They are just people. They are just people like

us that care. And we've got to get over that stuff. Some of my very best friends

are African American and we don't... I mean it never enters your mind anymore.

I'm not trying to say I'm some super person that's done that. I mean I recognize

it, but sometimes I think we've got too many political groups that are too

sensitive, or that make money. And I'll be honest, I think there are a lot of

people in this country that are very well known that make a lot of money over

racism. They want the problem, not the solution. The 01:23:00problem makes them money.

They get a solution and... I think we've got to get over that, and I hope we

can, whether it takes a change in leadership. How much change in leadership I

don't know. We'll just have to see, but at some point we've got to respect

people for being people. To me that's important. Where you come from, what your

color is that should be something we could care less and maybe I can be a small

part of it before I leave this earth. Well I'm not going to leave the earth;

I've got a cemetery plot over there. [Laughs]

David: I really appreciate your time 01:24:00today. I like to end by asking was there

something you thought that I might have asked that I didn't ask or I should have

asked you?

Sam: It was pretty good. I care about people.

I guess you would say I'm a people person because I love people. I love

learning, and I don't think you ever get too old to learn. And just because

somebody is younger than you doesn't mean you can't learn from them. I learn

from my kids. I learn from my grandkids you know. And I think also we've got to

stop putting this country down. Until you've been away, even as bad as things

may seem to be here we're so much better than most of the other countries, but

we're sliding down. We need to pick up because we need to 01:25:00be the example. We

have the ability to be the example. If you have the ability you have the

responsibility, and our education system is what's going to do it. I really love

education. My involvement even little Ferrum College over here.

David: How did that involvement start? Do you have a personal tie there?

Sam: We built some buildings over there for them and just started in and Dr.

Boone was the president at that point. My father had two very good friends who

had donated significantly to Ferrum. It was started by United Methodist Women as

kind of a high school for students and then sort of evolved. I kid them, I say

well you know when I first went on the board I was the token Lutheran, so you

know what kind of jobs I got. 01:26:00[Laughs] But it was a rural school and it tried to

help that class of people in Franklin County and the surrounding areas that

didn't really have a chance to go to a Tech or a UVA, but yet they cared and

people cared about them.

Oh there are so many stories I could tell you about students who came there with

nothing. We had a kid from Kenya two years ago that his parents got enough money

to send him to the U.S., didn't understand him. He was supposed to be going to

Liberty. Got on the wrong bus. He ended up in South Boston, didn't have any

money. It was cold. He had actually taken his socks off and put on his hands,

was cold. And a lady that happened to be a member of our board her church took

him in and talked to him and sort of figured Liberty is a great school but it

was too big, it would overwhelm him, and took him to Ferrum and he graduated in 01:27:00four years. I had dinner with him the night before graduation and I asked him

what are you going to do? He said, "I'm going back to Kenya and I'm going to

tell them that all of this stuff they've heard about America is wrong. America

is a wonderful wonderful place."

You can buy that anywhere. You can't do it. One thing led to another and I

served a couple of terms and then I've been chairman for five years or so, which

doesn't mean anything but I get to take the trash out after a meeting.

David: Well you're keeping more than busy then.

Sam: Well maybe. I enjoy it. And another thing, back to the military, there's a

group of us started a little organization called Military Family Support Center.

We now cover all of southwest Virginia and we try to help families of people

that are deployed from the 01:28:00area. All over southwest it's a lot of factory jobs

and many of them supplemented their income by serving in the reserve, while not

realizing that they would be called up 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 or 5 times now.

David: Yeah.

Sam: And these families are really hurting because they can go -- they are up

and down, depending on the economy. If you get laid off they come to you for a

job and you ask about... "Well my unit -- I'm in the reserves, my unit is

scheduled for deployment in four months or five months." Well you're not going

to hire them because you can't even train them in four months. But their pay

stopped there, but the government doesn't start it until they actually report

for duty. I mean these families some of them are just... And I mean I'm not

talking about just privates too; I've talked to some captains and majors. And

thank goodness for grandmothers who step in. 01:29:00But a way that we can help them and

it's such a caring area here. We have a lot of businesses that will either pro

bono or plumbers, electricians, painters, mechanics, accountants, anybody, and

help them with a discounted cost, knowing they can donate that to help these

families who are going over and helping us.

We run a pantry of dry goods, staples and things we can do. You wouldn't think

you would have to give a family gas money to come and get things we can give

them. They are that tight. It's just something we need to do. We need to do that

as Americans to help them and so far... We're always begging for money, but

we're trying to help 01:30:00wherever we can. It's something I've enjoyed doing. It's

interesting, these people -- the one thing you don't ever say to them is this is

charity. That's what they don't want. They don't want charity.

Give them a helping hand -- okay, that's fine. So we're trying to you know keep

that going. Tech has been very good. Occasionally we've had the Cadet Corp come.

We've had other schools, but we go all the way up to Tennessee and I enjoy that.

I just enjoy kind of helping people. And you meet some great folks. I meet some

wonderful people that way. They can tell you some stories. I have a little kid

that will always be a little kid to me, but his father was a businessman here, 01:31:00and with our boys many a Saturday or Sunday I would go out in the rec room in

the morning and they're all sacked out on the sofas you know and stuff.

So he ended up, he went to VMI. I didn't hold that against him too much. He went

to VMI and got his commission, he was in the Army and he was in Korea and he had

risen to the rank of captain, but he had an affinity for the Coast Guard and he

really wanted it. So he took a voluntary demotion in his career, went back to

[01:13:20], came up through the Coast Guard. His last command, he was lieutenant

commander, was the Coast Guard station that took on New York Harbor, all of New

York Harbor. I'll always see him as a little 5 or 6-year-old kid. But fate had

it he was the duty officer when Captain Sullenberger called 01:32:00 in.

David: Oh wow, yeah.

Sam: And this little kid coordinated all the rescue of the people on that plane.

And because of what he learned at VMI and through our schools, he said when the

alert...when he punched the button or whatever it is in a plane, he said, "I

told them to start the boats because we didn't know." And he said, "Because we

were ready we were at that plane in two minutes and everybody got off." And he

said, "But the one that impressed me was Captain Sullenberger was the last one.

He had on his coat and his hat when he walked off that plane with everybody."

But just... Ordinary people do great things you know, like that. I was so proud

of him and we're still pretty good friends. I saw him this weekend. 01:33:00 [Laughs]

I don't know if I'm saying it right, but we have so much going for us if we just

take advantage of it.

Virginia Tech has that intangible can-do attitude when you leave or when you're

there as you go along, to return something back. I just thought of it. I love

talking to the students. I love having them down here or going up, when I go up

and give lectures at [Building] Construction. I probably give a dry lecture, but

then we go out and get a few, let the kids...

David: You have the students come up over here to the company?

Sam: Oh sure, from time to time, yeah, they're down here or go up there and

talk. Yeah, it's just... I think that's part of what we 01:34:00owe. I mean they have to

have contact with businesses and they need to be out and get out. Some need

financial help to do that, but nothing teaches like experience. And the

professors are wonderful, and they can do the book learning, but when you talk

to the guy that's there you know, what he's doing, that's when you really can

learn and get your hands dirty. You know feel what's going on. A construction

project gets a heartbeat to me.

David: Yeah, I bet.

Sam: You can begin to feel it going. Anyway, I get...

David: You still love it.

Sam: Oh I do. I do love it.

David: That's great.

Sam: I love to travel a little bit too and I've got to spend some time with my wife.

David: All right.

Sam: Well thank you very much.

David: Thank you so much. That was just 01:35:00 terrific.

Sam: Probably kind of boring, but anyway.

David: No, not for a second, not at all.