VT Stories Oral History with Matt Winston, Jr., April 6, 2017 (Ms2016-015)

ï"¿Ren Harman: Good afternoon. This is Ren Harman, the project manager for VT

Stories. Today is April 6, 2027 at about 1:40 p.m. We are currently in the

Holtzman Alumni Center. We have a very special guest today. So this is the only

time I'll prompt you, the only time I'll ask you to if you could, in a complete

sentence, just say your full name, when you were born and where you were born.

Matt Winston: Matthew Winston, Jr. Born in Norfolk, Virginia June 20, 1968.

Ren: Thank you. Can I ask you what years you attended Virginia Tech and your degree?

Matt: I graduated in 1990 with a Bachelor's degree in marketing management. I

entered as a freshman in 1986. Is that what you asked?

Ren: Yeah, that's 00:01:00it. So we'll get into the questions here. Can you just tell me

a little bit about your family and growing up?

Matt: Born in Norfolk to Matthew and Margaret Winston, and grew up, actually, in

Virginia Beach, Virginia. My mother was a computer programmer for the Navy,

civil service side, and my father was an aerospace engineer for NASA at Langley

Air Base in Hampton. He himself is an alumnus of Virginia Tech, and he got his

degree in 1959. And we just kind of grew up a happy nuclear family in Tidewater,

Virginia, and, you know, did 00:02:00what Tidewaterians do.

Great military town, Navy, obviously, and that was kind of formative for me

growing up, particularly the people that I got to meet, and the people I got to

hang out with, and know and grow up with. And I think it helped form my opinions

and impressions of people in general growing up, and quite frankly, was probably

what made my transition from a high school student to a Virginia Tech student

pretty easy.

Ren: Can you talk a little bit about your father's time at Virginia Tech? He

graduated, as you said, in 1959, one of Virginia Tech's first black graduates.

What do you remember about Virginia Tech as a child from his stories and things?

Matt: You know, oddly enough, my father was pretty tight-lipped about his

college 00:03:00experience up until the time when I started thinking about college. He

never had anything negative to say about Virginia Tech, despite the experiences

that I know and people can imagine that he had in the '50s, in the heart of the

civil rights era.

And then when it came time for me to determine and decide where I wanted to go

to school, he was incredibly encouraging of me coming here and he told me, when

we talked about the things that I wanted to do, what I thought I wanted to do

growing up, he said look, you obviously want a degree in business, and my advice

to you is to go to where the best business grads are being produced, and that's

Virginia Tech. And he would, at that point, I can remember as early as 8th, 9th,

10th grade him pulling out his alumni magazines 00:04:00or financial reports that he

might have because of his business dealings.

He wasn't just saying look, all these CEOs that are listed, look, all these CEOs

that are listed, look next to their names, they have Virginia Tech degrees. So

that was pretty impressionable on me. But other than that, you know, we would

cheer on Virginia Tech on TV and radio as best as you could in the early '80s.

There was no ESPN and CNN and all that kind of stuff where we were plastered all

over the place every year.

But I do remember during, I want to say, my junior or senior year Virginia Tech

won the NIT in a very dramatic way, and so...and Dell Curry had just pretty much

basically completed his career. But it was kind of the right timing that for

some 00:05:00reason in the state of Virginia, Virginia Tech was on the map in a

different kind of way.

My father also talked a lot about...the College of Engineering did a pretty good

job of keeping him engaged, probably more because of the way that they were

treating NASA. As you can imagine, a lot of engineers at NASA were Virginia Tech

graduates, and the College of Engineering did a really good job of bringing back

a lot of the grads from NASA to come and talk to students, the way that we want

them to do now, talk to a class and that kind of thing.

Of course the director at NASA was an alum, and he would drag my dad along. So

my dad's experience, from what he would relate to me, it had its ups and downs,

but he still walked away from it with a relatively engaged perspective.

I think it 00:06:00strengthened after I came here and kind of grew. But that's probably

natural and expected. The university grew, his relationship to the university

grew. I came here and had what I felt like was a phenomenal experience, and he

kind of probably lived that through me.

Ren: You said he was a little tight-lipped about some of the things dealing, you

know, in 1959. Did he ever share any stories of difficult times?

Matt: Yeah, he shared. He would share some tidbits here and there, but I... You

know, I hope one day he does one of these VT Stories with you guys, too, and you--

Ren: We'd love that.

Matt: --you could get it from him. But I don't think that he was very purposely

or deliberately intending to paint a negative picture about Virginia Tech, even

if it was real picture. I think he 00:07:00wanted me to sort of discover it for myself.

He was supportive of wherever I went. He didn't push me away from here or away

from Virginia Tech. He only said two things, one what I talked about earlier,

and that is this is where the leadership class is going, and two, you can go

wherever you want, but I'm only paying in state tuition, so I took that to

heart. And so there I was. I ended up here, and then, you know, I'm back, which

is good.

Ren: Like most young men, was your dad your hero, still your hero, would you say?

Matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. He remains someone who I idolize and look up

to. The accomplishments that he's had in his life are important to me and I

would like to think and hope that I strive to kind of do some of 00:08:00the things that

he did both professionally and personally.

But I'm also...I'm humbled by the fact that, you know, he has shared with me

that he's happy with where I've ended up in life, and proud of me, so having

someone you idolize and respect say that they are proud of you is pretty cool.

You asked me about kind of what he shared with me.

To be really honest, I probably learned more about his history and experience

and some of his stories from when Dr. Peter Wallenstein was doing his research

on the segregation history of Virginia Tech and schools all in the Southeast,

and he did interviews with not only my father, but with Irving Peddrew, and

Charlie Yates, and Essex Finney and a number of the classmates that my dad had

back 00:09:00 then.

And in reading his manuscript, I probably learned more than that. There is this

infamous kind of story that my father often tells about when the president of

the university called him and said I don't want you coming to Ring Dance, and

offered excuses or reasons--we don't know that we can protect you, it might not

look good, the board is concerned, blah-blah-blah, which my dad certainly, you

know, he read through that and knew what that was all about.

But other than telling that particular story, most of the stories about his

experience were relatively positive. He often talks about how his fellow

students were actually positive and supportive, and then probably naïve and

surprised when 00:10:00they had to really confront what seems like small things.

But like when they were on some sort of regimental trip, because it was in the

Corps, that my dad couldn't go into the same restaurant or some of the public

space that they could. And he says, I remember him saying, you know, I remember

my classmates just kind of being a little bit surprised by that. And so it was

stories like that. I wouldn't have any reason to think that my dad had what was

at the time anything out of the ordinary, and I think that that perspective is

probably important.

Ren: So did a little research here. You attended Kempsville High School?

Matt: I did.

Ren: Which are the Chiefs, correct?

Matt: [School] Chiefs.

Ren: So what was a young Matt Winston like in high school? What did you get into

there, in high school?

Matt: 00:11:00Trouble. I got into a lot of trouble. It was a great environment for me,

like I said. It was a--of course at the time where we lived it was in the

suburbs of Virginia Beach. It was a predominantly white high school, my

neighborhood was. But I think that prepared me for, quite frankly, for coming to

Virginia Tech. But I'd like to think that I was somewhat popular and well liked,

and pretty good all around. I very purposely made and kept friendships just

across all spectra. The year that I graduated, or maybe the year before, was

when "The Breakfast Club" movie came out.

And it was a really interesting sort of snapshot for me 00:12:00because not only did I

recognize all the cliques that were represented by all each one of those, but

unlike most people, at least that I felt like I was hanging with, I recognized

all those cliques and I recognized that I wasn't in every single one of them--or

that I was in all of them. I was in all of the cliques.

So I made friends with the stereotypical nerds, and the jocks, because I was a

nerd, and I was a jock, and I was a band geek, and I was in the student

government, and I was, I like to think, relatively well rounded. And like I

said, that helped me not only when I matriculated here, abut at Kempsville High

School, that you mentioned, we sent, from my high school, 30, 40 kids a year to

Virginia Tech, so when I came to Virginia Tech, I already had a network of 100

students that I already knew and knew well. And that's very comforting.

I often 00:13:00felt for the student who was the only one who came from their high

school, and if they were introverts, they come to a place like this and they're

in trouble. I was somewhat of an extravert and I knew a lot of people, so it

helped me with building bridges and networks and connections like that, which I

would like to think still serves me today.

Ren: You were a classmate of Chad Hugo, correct?

Matt: Chad. I wasn't. Chad was a couple years younger. He was younger than I am.

Ren: And for those who don't know, let's tell.

Matt: The Hugo brothers. One of them being a member of the Neptunes. But then

were all in the band. And actually, Chad's brother--and I'm forgetting his name

right now this second--was a little closer to my age.

Ren: I don't think I know.

Matt: But yeah, 00:14:00they have developed a high level of fame. We've had a lot of

success out of graduates from Kempsville High School. It's kind of cool.

Ren: Your mother, a Norfolk State grad, can you talk a little bit about her?

Matt: Well, she's my mother, so she's fantastic.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: I mean, you know, came incredibly humble. Both of my parents, incredibly

humble beginnings and just worked hard, and cared about her kids, and cares

about family. And just really smart and, you know, she's my mother. [Laughs.]

Ren: Got to be good to mom.

Matt: But I'll tell you what, she was probably, and still is, the one who really

was pushing all the 00:15:00kids in the family, not only me and my sister, but cousins,

all of us in the same age range, to work hard, be successful, write correctly,

speak correctly, make your beds, all that kind of stuff, because all those

little things mattered to her, and when you grow up you realize they matter,

they really matter. The details really matter.

Ren: Because both of your parents were involved in the military in some way, did

you feel like you lived in a military kind of household, pretty strict about

making beds and being tidy and things?

Matt: Yeah, I don't think it was really a military influence on that. I just

think it was just this is how they were. Because my grandmothers, both of them,

were also pretty strict on how they ran their households, so I think it probably

came more from them than it did anything else.

Ren: Right, they ran a tight ship.

Matt: Yeah, they ran a tight ship. 00:16:00We didn't always follow, but we knew what the

expectations are. We just made our choices.

Ren: So a little bit about thinking about college, you talked a little bit about

that. Would you have ended up anywhere else? And then did you apply anywhere

else to college?

Matt: Yeah, I applied to a couple places that I had real interest in. In fact

the first college that I applied to was actually East Carolina University. It

was because I had a couple friends who went there and liked it, you know, it was

pretty cool. I'm kind of afraid to admit James Madison was also on my list, and

actually ended up being one of my top choices. But once I really just started

getting serious about it, and I hate to say this, but back then you could get

serious about college a lot later than you can get serious about it right now.

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: We need kids getting serious about college in the 7th and 8th 00:17:00grade, to e

honest about it. And I trolled it out until I was a junior, and maybe even an

early senior. But when I really started getting focused on it, Virginia Tech

made sense. I did want to go away, which eliminated schools like ODU and William

and Mary, which I probably didn't have any interest in anyway, but I pushed

myself away from it. I really wanted to get some distance and independence for myself.

But one of the other things--you know, I owe a great deal of credit to me being

here also to two individuals. One is a woman by the name of Dr. Joyce

Williams-Green, who was associate provost at the time. Her husband happens to be

one of my dad's closest friends when he was here as a student.

Native of 00:18:00Blacksburg, but they, as you can imagine my father and all those early

students really became friends with a lot of people in the community. And so she

was encouraging to me. And in fact there were several times at I can barely

remember, because it was so long ago, but my dad bringing me up to Blacksburg

for a visit, one, partially just so he could spend the weekend with his friend,

but also gave me some kind of unofficial tours time over at Virginia Tech, and

so she was influential in me being here, and certainly was a support system

while I was here.

But the other person, and probably the most influential person for me being

here, is Norrine Bailey Spencer, who at the time was the associate dean in the

College of Business.

She retired from actually being the director of 00:19:00admissions before she passed

away, but Norrine was...when I think about what college athletes go through,

when a...you know, let's say I'm a linebacker and the linebacker coach calls me

and says I'm the linebacker's coach and I want you to come play for me at this institution.

Norrine was the associate dean in the College of Business, and she called me and

she said I'm the associate dean and I want you to come to Virginia Tech and get

a business degree in my college. And that meant something to me. And then she

was always, I mean, it's just her nature, just a constant support system in and

of herself, both kind of for the student individually, but certainly for you

academically. But remained a friend of mine until the day she passed. 00:20:00It was important to...once I had that conversation with her, and she called me

in the office and took me on campus when I was here for one of those weekends

with my dad, took me to breakfast and whatever, that kind of solidified it.

Because not only did I want to go there, but somebody said they wanted me to go

there. And so that worked.

Ren: And that means a lot to an 18-year-old trying to figure out what they want

to do in their life.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. And I say that, and those are principles that I think that we

certainly could, should, and need to apply today, particularly as we try to

attack our diversity challenges, is that we just need more people picking up the

phone and calling a kid and saying look, I know you may have gotten a letter or

an email, but I'm going to make a personal phone call or a personal outreach to

you and say how important it is for you to come to Virginia Tech. And I think we

could have a lot of success if we followed that.

Ren: Right, right. 00:21:00What was your first memory at Virginia Tech? Can you remember

what it looked like, smelled like, felt like?

Matt: It was a long time ago.

Ren: Let's reach back.

Matt: My first memory of Virginia Tech as a student. Maybe that's the best way

to do it because it was such a blur otherwise. It's kind of what it is now.

Beautiful place. A lot of familiarity because I had friends who were here. In

fact my college roommate was a kid I was in Kempsville with, and was my college

roommate throughout our entire experience. And so, you know, just camaraderie,

getting to know new people. I probably remember move-in day more than I remember

anything else, just because it was--

Ren: Yeah, same.

Matt: --you know, the crowded hallways, building a 00:22:00loft, trying to get to know

new people and...

Ren: Kind of a nervous energy.

Matt: Nervous energy. A lot of loud music, 'cause everyone wanted to blast and

see whose music was the loudest, who had the loudest sound system. That was a

big thing back then, who had the loudest sound system. All those things. And of

course it was still on the quarter system when I enrolled, so it was late fall

when we actually enrolled.

It was after Labor Day, kind of mid September. So it was cool, a little bit

cool. The leaves not quite turning, but you could tell it was coming. I can sort

of have all that in my head. And then, you know, and then it all kind of becomes

a blur.

Ren: Right. I have to ask this. Where did you live freshman year?

Matt: Vawter Hall.

Ren: So where did you stay the subsequent years?

Matt: That was my first year. My second 00:23:00year, immediately moved off campus into

Foxridge. Foxridge and Terrace View, at the time, were the places to be.

Ren: Were the places? Yeah.

Matt: So I moved into Foxridge with a bunch of people and stayed there for two

years. Then moved into a condo in University Place behind Kroger, University

City. They were relatively new. In fact I think it was maybe two or three years

old when we moved into it. And I ended up staying there for maybe three or four

years. Then a buddy of mine rented a little small house on Plantation Road along

where the, like the sheep farm, going down that road. The house is right at the

very...the first house that's right across the street from the Hilton Garden

Inn, which at the time was a Red Roof Inn.

Ren: Yeah, that's right.

Matt: WE lived there and it was 00:24:00great. Because at that time, that was out of the

way. I mean, you were in the country when you went, turned down that street. So

we didn't get bothered by anybody, and it was really cheap. I mean, the

landowner was basically letting us live there almost for free, comparatively.

And we had a good time. And then 18 months after that I got really serious with

my now wife and so we started getting ready to get married and make a family and

all that kind of stuff.

Ren: Out of these 120 plus interviews we've done for VT Stories--I lived in

Pritchard my freshman year, so I'm always asking people where they lived--and I

think only maybe one person also lived in Pritchard, so I always like to ask

that question when I do these interviews. So Vawter, right?

Matt: It's interesting. I keep telling people to come back to campus to see

Pritchard because it's 00:25:00nothing like it was before. And people are amazed when I

say as far as housing is concerned, Pritchard is the most sought after residence

hall on campus. And they're like, are you kidding? And I'm just like, no, you

just gotta come back and see it, it's--

Ren: Come back and see it, yeah.

Matt: --it's been renovated and it's sweet, and the students love it there.

Ren: Yeah. I've told this story before. Shortly after I--'cause I, like you,

moved out off campus after my freshman year, and I was TA'ing a class, and a

female student came up to me, and somehow it got brought up where she lived, and

she said Pritchard. And I was like, wait a minute. I was like, it's coed now? So

that was really--'cause when I lived there it was 1,400 males. And I know

they've done a lot of renovations and stuff. But my brother also lived in

Pritchard, so...

Matt: Really?

Ren: Yeah. I kind of have a good connection to it.

Matt: Wow.

Ren: Yeah. He graduated in 2001. Him and Greg Fansler hung out at some point,

I'm 00:26:00convinced. [Laughs.]

So you started after Labor Day 1986. Two big hires the following year in 1987,

Frank Beamer and Nikki Giovanni. So can you remember them being hired? And kind

of what was the response of the students?

Matt: I remember Coach Beamer more than I do Nikki, I have to admit

primarily--well, because it was athletics versus, you know, more of an academic

profile. But I do remember them both. I do remember kind of the buzz and fanfare

around it all. Probably another component of that is that Nikki's hire was a

hire of opportunity. I mean, what a great--what? You can get someone like, you

know, an icon like Nikki to come.

But Coach Beamer's hire 00:27:00was precluded by a disaster. We had a coach we had to

fire because we had NCAA violations, and--

Ren: Had a president resign.

Matt: Had a president. And he had a, you know, we had to pay him what was a lot

of money at the time. A million dollars was a--and it's a lot of money now, but

to have to pay that in--

Ren: The '80s, late '80s, yeah.

Matt: When you weren't making money like you're making now. Two ESPN broadcasts

might help you get there, but you weren't doing that back then, so it was a real

issue. And we kind of hired this unknown guy. And I really wasn't that invested

in it, but I do remember it. And I remember two things about it. I remember

certainly there was the who is this guy who is now going to come--we just won

the Peach Bowl, kind of on a high, and now we got this new guy coming in and we

don't know anything about him, and what's that gonna do.

But I also remember 00:28:00him coming in and saying I look around campus and I see

everyone wearing colors that aren't maroon and orange. There's a lack of sort of

cohesiveness and pride. There were people wearing Duke stuff and Notre Dame

clothes. And one of the things I would hope that we can accomplish is that we

sort of bring the pride back, at least wearing stuff that has a VT on it on

campus and even at our own football games.

Something about that just stuck with me. And lo and behold, however many years

later, finally maroon and orange stuff is like really cool. You could never find

it anywhere outside of Blacksburg and Christiansburg. But when I was in Georgia

I'd find it.

And it might not be Virginia Tech stuff, but it was maroon and--the color

combination. So I kind of give him some 00:29:00credit for that, whether he meant to do

it that way or not. That was kind of what I remembered the most about that. Of

course our football beginnings were dubious.

Ren: A little rocky.

Matt: To say the least. But, you know, I give credit to the institution as a

whole for having the patience with Coach Beamer to say we're going to let you

build a program. Because you don't see that anymore. Two or three wins, or two

or three no win seasons, low win seasons and people just don't have the patience

for it anymore and they get ousted before they can really build something, which

I think is unfortunate.

I'm going to finish my long answer. In the meantime, over that time, you know, I

think people were really beginning to appreciate what Nikki brought to campus in

terms of visibility and in terms of raising our stature in the arts and

literature community.

And she was just a force on 00:30:00campus at a time when multiculturalism was really

starting to get a little bit of wind behind its sails. So much so that one of

the, among the experiences that I really treasure at Virginia Tech before I left

was the president had appointed me on a committee with her to design the first

black studies problem, and she taught the first course, which was in my final semester.

So I was a part of helping design the program and the course and then I got to

take the course, and it ended up being my last class. How cool is it to say your

last class in college was with Nikki Giovanni?

Ren: Yeah, awesome.

Matt: And she has remained a friend and a supporter for me ever since. It's been

really cool.

Ren: We were fortunate enough to interview her for VT Stories a couple weeks

ago, as you probably saw, and it was 00:31:00awesome. I mean, it was so great. Let me

ask you about a man by the name of Ronald Giddings. And he was the assistant

dean of students, and kind of really kind of got the ball rolling at the Black

Cultural Center, am I correct?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Ren: What kind of relationship did you have with that center and with him as well?

Matt: Ron was a, he was this great supporter for students back when he was here,

and someone that the students could lean on and count on and go to. Was also

sort of a leader in the on campus black community, always providing guidance and

support and helping with strategizing. And so Ron and his wife Valerie were

really kind of a power couple on campus. And I was glad that I got to know them

and work with them, both interact with them as a student, but also when I 00:32:00continued to work here as a professional.

And in my relationship with the center, what a great opening for us during my

time here, to have that center come to fruition. And it was years in the making.

And then the opportunity that my father and I had to sponsor the mural on the

outside of it. It was an honor, and I liked that, the connection that the title

of the mural is legacy, and that that's what my father and I represent. So there

was some...I'm kind of big on that symbolism kind of thing. That kind of stuff

moves me.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely. Another, you know, just some little university history.

Can you talk about Bimbo Coles?

Matt: Yeah. Bimbo and I were in school together. I mean, we came in together,

hung out. He was, you know, he was just this 00:33:00phenomenal athlete.

What was really cool about it was back then the Castle was full every game, kind

of like it has been this season.

Ren: Right, yeah.

Matt: And he was just a part of that. And to know that we have produced...that

he was talented enough to be in a--he did some amazing things as a student

athlete that were...that you rarely get to see. And when you get special

athletes like Bimbo and Mike Vick, Kevin Jones, these kind of where did that

come from kind of talent, that was really cool to know. And I'm glad Bimbo is

still connected to us. We see each other and get to hang out with each other.

We've got some mutual friends on campus, mutual friends in the community that we

hang out with. 00:34:00But it's good that he's returned. And he's had a great career, and I'd like to

think he had a great career because he came to Virginia Tech.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely. Thinking about your time here and your four years, what

were kind of maybe some other events kind of going on that you can kind of

remember that kind of stick out in your mind? Whether they be social or other,

you know, athletic, anything that kind of, that you remember pretty easily.

Matt: Let's see. I remember certainly Peach Bowl. I remember, there's certain

victories that you kind of remember, like when we...UVA was No. 1 and we beat

them in football right here in our own--you remember that kind of athletic

thing. I remember...we were lucky enough, every once in a while, to get a really

interesting concert. 00:35:00But all those concerts were like in Burruss, in Burruss Hall. I probably

shouldn't acknowledge that I don't remember many of the details. I just kind of

remember the feeling. I remember that this was an opportunity that was just here

in front of us. I remember, you know, I remember way too many fraternity parties

and block parties. We were still doing Founders Day in a different way, and so I

remember a lot of Founders Day stuff. I remember--gosh, it's tough that I can't

remember the stuff I really am supposed to remember.

Ren: Well, let me help you out, maybe. Robin Williams. Do you remember this?

Matt: I don't remember Robin Williams.

Ren: I didn't know this either until I was doing my research for the interview.

1987, apparently, in Castle Coliseum.

Matt: I don't remember that. If I'd have known it, I'd have gone.

Ren: 00:36:00And first nighttime football game was, I think, in 1990, according to what

I could find. Hurricane Hugo.

Matt: Okay, I do remember...I remember Hurricane Hugo. I remember it being so

strong. You know, it came in and destroyed Charleston. Came inland, basically

went up 77, and by the time it reached here, it was still a Category...you know,

this far inland was still a Category 2 hurricane.

Didn't really do that much damage. There was a lot of wind, a lot of rain. But

the fact that it was what it was. I remember it was the first time I can

remember Virginia Tech canceling class for something other than snow. And even

in the snow realm, we didn't cancel class. I think we only 00:37:00canceled class maybe

twice while I was a student for snow.

I do remember--and I will acknowledge some of this will get meshed from the time

that I was a student and when I was working.

Ren: Working, right.

Matt: Because while I was, even when I was working, I still, in my mind, kept

thinking of myself as a student--a student who just didn't have to go to class.

Ren: Yeah, exactly. The best kind.

Matt: But I remember April 4th of maybe it was '93 or '94 it snowed ten inches.

So I never, when I'm in Blacksburg, get comfortable until at least after April

4th. We might even get some snow tonight.

Ren: Yeah, right.

Matt: I remember sometime in '92-ish, I think, a huge downpour that basically

created a 00:38:00flood that started on this side, coming out of, basically out of the

duck pond, flooded the west end of the drill field.

The creek underneath swoll and what was the old Donaldson-Brennan Alumni Center,

which is now the Graduate Life Center, I was in the room when water just began

to rise into the room. And it was in the middle of an Old Guard dinner, so there

were a lot of elderly people in the room that is now kind of the multipurpose

function room in the Graduate Life Center. That was the main dining hall in

there, and there were elderly people in there. And water quickly began to rise.

And I remember people having to scramble to try to get everyone out because--

Ren: Wow.

Matt: --they, you know, worried about getting them out in time, worried about

the water getting to the level of the electric sockets.

Ren: Oh, my gosh.

Matt: The water completely went through basically the bookstore side and went

out the other side of 00:39:00that building, and had flooded all the way over toward

where the media building and the farmers market is.

I remember that flood. In fact, I think that I can say that while I was here

before 1998 I saw every natural disaster, with the exception--in

Blacksburg--with the exception of, obviously, a volcano. But I remember a very,

very slight, barely probably registered on the Richter Scale, but it was an

earthquake, blizzards, tornadoes, hurricane.

Ren: You get it all.

Matt: Got it all right here. So that was actually pretty cool. And then in '93,

of course, I remember the massive blizzard of '93. And that happened just at the

end of spring break. And this was when I was working in the public relations

office, and we were frantically trying to get the word out to students, don't

come back for spring break, because we're expecting what ended up being

something 00:40:00like 28 inches of snow in like a day.

Ren: Yeah. So I grew up in southwest Virginia not far from Blacksburg, and I

remember that snowstorm, and I remember we lost our power. And I remember

reading the Berenstain Bears books as a--I mean, I was young. But I remember

that blizzard. Quite a blizzard.

Matt: I mean, it debilitated this whole place for at least six days. It was

really, really big.

Ren: I was doing some research and was kind of thumbing through some of the

Bugles, and I kept seeing--and I've asked a lot of people this, and I can't seem

to get a good story--but the Phoenix Restaurant, where was it, what was it?

Because I feel like every Bugle I looked at from this time period, it always

keeps coming up.

Matt: The Phoenix is whatever is...let's see if I can remember this right. I

think the Phoenix was the one that was next to where Moe's is right 00:41:00now. It was,

at one point in time had been called the [Hawaii Kai].

Ren: Oh, okay.

Matt: And then I think it became the Phoenix. But it was a little dance spot.

And one of them, Hawaii Kai or Phoenix, I think when it was the Phoenix, it was

really a good, it was a good spot for underage because they did yes-no stamps

there. And the other spots were across the street, Arnold's and Sharkey's. They

were actually shifted from where they are now. But they were...you had to be of

age to get in. And so--

Ren: The Phoenix was kind of an alternative, right?

Matt: Yeah.

Ren: Yeah. Cool.

Matt: I won't tell too many--

Ren: That's what I was gonna say. I won't ask you too many questions about that.

You kind of mentioned a few names here, but did you come in as a marketing management--

Matt: I did.

Ren: So 00:42:00throughout your time, some notable professors that you had. Do you

remember any names?

Matt: Yeah. Particularly in our department, first and foremost my department

head at the time, Jim Littlefield, who was an amazing department head and had

business experience. He owned his own survey research firm and actually employed

me to work in the firm. I mean, I was making cold calls to people. But it was

cool that he trusted me to do that with him. He was a great professor and a

great teacher.

Julie Ozanne was a professor of mine. She taught strategic marketing. She was

wonderful, probably one of my favorites. Tough, business minded, just really

smart, really dedicated. The current dean, Robert Sumichrast, was actually a

professor of mine. And in the small world 00:43:00category, he and I worked at the

University of Georgia together. He was the dean there before he came back here.

But it was interesting because I was the one assigned to give Robert a tour of

the UGA campus, and I remember when we met and I kind of reminded him. I said

you probably don't remember, but I took a class from you back at Virginia Tech,

and I don't want to remind you what my grade was, but I did pass. But to help

hire him there, and then for he and I to work together, and then come here--

Ren: Come here, yeah.

Matt: --almost at the same time was pretty cool. There was an economics 00:44:00professor--oh my gosh, I can't remember what his name... David... Oh, my gosh, I

can't believe his name... David Rubinstein was a legend. He had the mannerisms

of--I'm gonna say a name that most people don't remember, Gilbert Gottfried. He

just had those mannerism, just like, almost like a funny comedian, but he was

smart, and he knew how to--and he was teaching the mass econ class, so it was

300 people at a time.

But he...he was just one of those people that everyone remembered, and it

was...he's someone I remember. And I remember unfortunately, he was so good at

teaching that I don't think that he was given the opportunity, 'cause he had to

teach a lot of sections, to keep up with his research and publishing side, so he

didn't get tenure.

And I remember that there was a 00:45:00little bit of hue and outcry from the students

when that came to pass. It was kind of a why are we getting rid of--I'm learning

from this person, why are we getting rid of him? Those were some teachers that I

certainly remember, and were a positive part of my experience.

Ren: What was your involvement with the Student Government Association?

Matt: I was the public relations director for the student government, which was

really fun and cool. My roommate, the one I mentioned who I lived with, I mean,

I lived with the whole time, he became president of the student body and then

appointed me the public relations director. And it was during some really cool

and interesting times. And then our other roommate followed him as president.

Ren: Oh, wow.

Matt: So I extended just a little bit before I got into some other stuff. But I

kind 00:46:00of...I attribute that as my way of really getting involved. I mean, I was

doing like intramurals and that kind of stuff. But in terms of getting involved

in organizations, that was really my first foray into it. And then from there I

feel like I got into a lot of stuff. I was in the original Hokie Camp. And I was

on the orientation leader staff.

Ren: Oh, okay.

Matt: This was--so you're younger than I, obviously. When I was doing

orientation, it was the years of come in, register for class, take a placement

test and go home. There was no-no-no-no-no

Ren: Stay overnight.

Matt: --no rah-rah stuff, stay overnight. It was when they said look left, look

right, one of you not--you know, they always told that scary story.

Ren: Right.

Matt: But the program got revamped with the orientation leaders, and the tours,

and the--

Ren: Energy.

Matt: Bonding and energy during my time. And so I was on that team as well. And

it's 00:47:00interesting because one of the things I wanted to do when I got back in

this role is we're getting ready this summer to have a reunion of all the

orientation leaders and all the Hokie Camp counselors.

Ren: Oh, that's cool.

Matt: So I think it'll be really cool to bring all of them back, because they

end up being the most involved students on campus as a whole, as a set.

Ren: Yeah, right.

Matt: So yeah, that was good stuff. Student government was cool and fun. Really

got to get into university politics and understand that. But it was also how I

got to really know the VP for student affairs at the time, Tom Goodale. And it

was Tom who really gave me my first job after graduating, or he got me into my

first job after graduating. He had, during my senior year, asked me to do an

internship for him creating a marketing plan for the Virginia Tech license plates.

Ren: Oh, okay.

Matt: And from there, that's when I moved into the news office, because they

were 00:48:00running it for the entire university.

Ren: Relations, yeah.

Matt: So I ran that program, which was...I'm proud of where it is right now.

Ren: In doing some research I found a--I should have printed it off and brought

it to you--a nice little group picture of the SGA, and you're standing like

right in the middle.

Matt: Really?

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: That's why I won't run for public office, because someone can obviously

find old pictures of me that I don't know anything about.

Ren: I'll print it off and I'll email it to you.

Matt: I would like to see it. That would be cool.

Ren: Yeah, it's good. So let me ask you...we talked a lot about some memories

here, but are there any kind of favorite memories or experiences that just kind

of...that really stick out in your mind?

Matt: Most of my memories probably just center around experiences that I had

with friends. I felt like I got to make a lot of friends while I was 00:49:00here. And

that could have been in class, or it could have been at a party, or it could

have been at a game or something. It could have been in a meeting with SGA. But

I just think about those times. Or we could have just been doing nothing. We

could have been sitting on a balcony, or we could have been at the balcony. And

just whatever those common experiences were.

I also remember there were a lot of things that happened while I was in college.

And I always tie those together. Or at least while I was here at Virginia Tech

on the front end. You know, the Rodney King beating. I can probably tell you

everything I was doing that night when all that unraveled and the subsequent...

Ren: Riots and...right.

Matt: Trials and all that kind of--and riots and stuff. There were riots in

Virginia Beach in the early 00:50:00'90s around the old Greek Fest, which was the black

Greek kind of year end party that many of the black Greek organizations would do

from all up and down the East Coast. In '91 we went to war.

You know, that was our...the Gulf War. And it was the first time we had really

been in a military conflict of that nature in more than a decade, in decades.

Now it seems like we're always in somewhere, so it's not uncommon. But I

remember kind of the campus trauma around, you know, President Bush has just

said we've got to go over there and get in the middle of that.

And that was pretty hard, I remember. It was hard for the student community.

They were grappling around some stuff. I remember there were some 00:51:00 other

controversies. We were doing some internal stuff, like with SGA we were doing

like a constitutional amendment or ratifica--we were doing something that at the

time we thought was really monumental, and [really] didn't do anything.

Ren: Right.

Matt: There was some debate around, I guess as there always is, but I just

remember I think that we had an amendment on one of our SGA ballots asking about

something around birth control or right to life stuff on an SGA election ballot,

which I thought was kind of weird and interesting. And we had to, in kid world,

PR our way through that.

Magic Johnson announced he had AIDS while I was here. That was...I remember that

as clear as day because he's my favorite basketball player. There were things

like that that I remember. MTV was kind of in a renaissance. I mean, it got

introduced like in the early '80s, but when I got to college was when MTV 00:52:00started introducing all these non-music--

Ren: Shows.

Matt: --things. And now I don't even know if MTV plays music anymore. It's all

reality shows.

But I remember that's where it started, because I would be sitting on my couch

for hours on end watching crap like that. And other iconic stuff, like the Cosby

Show. That was hot. I remember a lot of that about my college experience, and I

remember how I would relate with my friends around all of that, and with my

college experience.

Ren: So unfortunately, for a lot of these interviews that we've done, there is a

bit of a gap of time with people we interviewed, and it's mostly like late '80s

to mid '90s, so you're filling this gap perfectly. A couple of other things kind

of in that time. The fall of the Berlin wall was during then, and then also the

explosion of the Challenger. Do you kind of remember one of those like you

always remember where you were 00:53:00kind of things?

Matt: I remember the Challenger probably more 'cause I was still in high school.

It might have been my junior or senior year. But I remember where I was 'cause I

was in the library.

And for some reason it was--well, not for some reason--it was on. It was on TV.

And I just remember it. And I remember transitioning from the library to my math

class, and that was...I remember that. Berlin wall I don't remember as vividly.

But I know it's not there anymore. [Laughs.]

Ren: Right, right. And now for the worst segue, some difficult experiences that

you had. You were definitely here at a lot of change, as we've actually seen at

the university in the last couple of years, a lot of changeover of

administration, of coaches, of academic deans, and then also really a changing

time period in our nation's history. So were there any really difficult

experiences that you had to deal with either on a personal or academic 00:54:00 level?

Matt: This pales in comparison to I think what you're trying to ask, but I was

here in the transition from quarters to semesters, and so I got caught up in the

transition of credits. It was a factor in pushing me to have to spend an extra

semester here, which I didn't mind. I was going to do it anyway. But I do

remember it being difficult.

I remember it being difficult on just processing it, and other students who, you

know, all of a sudden--not that we didn't want to go to summer school, which you

had to go to summer school, so we were in summer school just trying to keep even

and catch up. There were...I mean, every class has to deal with them, but there

were certainly some student deaths that were just troublesome. 00:55:00One of my high

school classmates passed away. She had aneurysm sitting in Hardy's across the street.

That was tough. There was a friend of mine that was a member of some of these

fraternity guys that I was hanging out with that the intersection that's no

longer there anymore, actually. It was the Tom's Creek Road where it comes onto

460. It used to funnel right to the road. There was no light. Now it's an

overpass and we don't have to fool with that anymore.

But I remember the night that he came to that intersection and didn't stop in

time, or maybe he wasn't--I don't know what he was doing. But he got T-boned by

another car and he died in that car 00:56:00crash. And there are a lot of... Most of the

negative things, at least, are around the bad experiences that some of my fellow

students had.

And, you know, of course, you know, I had my heart broken a couple times. And

some of that stuff just, I mean, it's stuff that happens, but when you're 18, 19

and 20, it's traumatic to you. You know, how can I go on? She doesn't like me

anymore. But there were also just tough times, but mostly around--you know, you

lose people.

You figure out stuff about yourself or you figure out stuff about other people

that's different than what you saw in high school. That person's not very nice

at all, or, you know. I didn't... You know, that, wow. I didn't...I've been

hanging out with that person for four years. I didn't realize that person had

such racist tendencies. Those kinds of things got tough for me. I probably

became more of a 00:57:00feminist in college 'cause of some of the really great classes

that I was taking.

And as I became more enlightened, it was probably difficult for me to have to

break ties with people who I didn't feel were as enlightened as they should be,

male and female. So that's probably, you know. That's probably all I can really

remember. There's probably a whole bunch of other stuff.

And normally that kind of violence back then was centered around some level of a

boyfriend-girlfriend dispute gone wrong. And, you know, to now have to process

it of, you know, this may really be an issue that someone has just not

necessarily--I don't want to use the word stable--but they've got some issues

that they've got to deal with. I think that's different than...and probably a

bit more 00:58:00unpredictable than, you know, I saw you trying to kiss my girlfriend,

now we're gonna have to fight about it. Neither one of them should be

acceptable, but that kind of thing was probably just not as surprising and

dramatic as it is right now.

Ren: I meant to ask you this question earlier. Were you in a Greek organization?

Matt: No.

Ren: Okay, you weren't, but you had--

Matt: I was in all the Greek organizations.

Ren: Right. [Laughs.] You're an honorary member.

Matt: I was actually an honorary member of two or three of them. But I think it

kind of goes back to what I was saying about when I was in high school. I just,

I found a way to just get in with a lot of different groups of people. And in

fact it was for that reason that I didn't join a Greek organization, because I

kind of said if I join one, then am I cutting myself off from another--

Ren: Kind of put up some walls or something, right. Can I ask you race relations

during your time here, what was that experience?

Matt: It was tough. Was 00:59:00probably...I don't want to say it was any tougher or

less tougher than what's going on today. I think that there's a feeling amongst

my contemporaries that as a black student community that we are more tight-knit

and cohesive than the current students are.

I can't say if that's true or not. But there was a sense that everybody knew

each other.

Ren: Let me jump in. Were there organizations that held you guys together and

were supportive of you? And do they still exist?

Matt: The Black Organizations Council and the NAACP were two of the stronger

black oriented groups that were out 01:00:00there. But everyone was kind of a member of

all the organizations at the same time. And even if you weren't, it was

still...you were just still kind of part of it.

The black Greek organizations, you know, kind of the same thing. Even if you

weren't in it--if you weren't in one of them, then you kind of got along with

all of them. That was what I was saying. But if you got into one, then you had

to kind of be a part of that team. But it was still, I mean, there was no animus

with any of the groups, I don't think.

There were...the other group organizations, let's say the Latino students and

the Asian student organizations that are pretty prominent now, Muslim students,

you know, all these different religious oriented ones, they weren't as prominent

then as they are now. 01:01:00And I don't think that the...there was not an attempt to

be as integrative as they are today back then.

But it, you know, there was kind of a focus--there were very few Latino students

anyway, so let's start there. And the black students were just trying to exist

together and be a support group for one another for things that were real and

things that just seemed real.

Ren: Right, right. Any of those experiences that you want to elaborate on?

Matt: I mean, I think everyone has a story, no matter where you go, whether it's

Virginia Tech, or whether you're out of HBCU, where, you know, somebody calls

you a name, or disrespects your or, you know. I mean, everyone has those, and

that's not to 01:02:00minimize them. So I don't think I could tell you a story that's

any better or different. Have I been harassed by cops here in Blacksburg? Yeah,

a lot, you know. Not to make any excuse, but that was just sort of the time, and

I didn't...I didn't put up with it, but I also tried to pick my battles.

I remember one time walking, one of my roommates and I were walking in and

around the library. And this was when he was president. And this police officer

walks up to me and says I need to see your ID, and he's just sort of giving me

the business.

Ren: Talking a little louder than he should.

Matt: Yeah, and just kind of harassing me. And, you know, my roommate, my white

Jewish roommate, 01:03:00said you don't have to give him that. What's this all about?

And then the officer said something like, well, we've had a report of...it was

something along the lines of people...what did he say? People taking parking

tickets off of cars. That's what it was, something like that. And I said, well,

what does he look like?

And he said, oh, we were only told that he was wearing a striped shirt, like a

striped rugby shirt. And I immediately looked around, and there were like seven

guys standing around wearing striped rugby shirts. And I was like, okay, why did

you pick on me? And, you know, to me the reason was pretty obvious, and to my

roommate the reason was pretty obvious. And then I remember my roommate said you

need to tell me...give me your badge number, or tell me your name or whatever

that was.

And he was like, I don't have to do that. And he's like, no, you do 01:04:00have to do

that. And then it kind of got a little combative and the police officer said I

know I don't have to do it because I...this is what my police chief tells me. At

which point my roommate says, well, I'm the student body president, and I meet

with the police chief once a week, so I know that's what you have to do, and we

can go and see him right now. And sure enough, you know, within 30 minutes, my

roommate and I went to the chief at the time.

And, you know, I've told a long story. Let me make it short. The police chief

determined that the way he was treating me in particular, and us, was wrong and

probably, in hindsight he probably had some other issues, but the guy got fired.

That was an interesting lesson for me because, you know, kind of in the white

privilege category. My roommate was talking 01:05:00to this police officer in a way that

I would have never done it. And he and I talked about that afterwards.

We kind of processed that afterwards. Because he was kind of like, you know

what, you should never have to put up with that kind of stuff. And I was like,

you know, but that's the kind of stuff that I've been putting up with for 20

years. And his father's a lawyer. I mean, that could have as much to do with it

as anything else. His father was a lawyer. But it was an interesting sort of

thing. And, you know, that's one example of--

Ren: Of many, probably.

Matt: --just how. I was at the Marriott one night, the old Marriott now, right?

But like I said, my apartment was just across the parking lot from the math

emporium. And I remember--I will acknowledge I had overdone it. I had driven

there from somewhere else and my car was there. It was at the end of the night.

They were kicking people out of the bar. My roommates had all left 01:06:00me. I was a

little agitated about that.

And so I just started to walk home. Left my car there, was going to walk across

the parking lot. Well, I was in the middle of the empty parking lot and three or

four police cars came screaming into the parking lot, lights going. And they

threw me up against the car, asked me a bunch of questions, what are you doing?

Like look, you picked a minute I know I'm drunk, but I'm just walking to my

apartment across the parking lot, what's going on?

And they just, they wouldn't answer the question. And, you know, finally I said

look, I left my car there because I didn't want to drive. I'm just trying to

walk home. If nothing else, can you give me a ride home? No, we're not gonna

give you a ride home. We should arrest you for disturbing the peace. You know,

it was just all this weird stuff. And finally they kind of let me go. I don't

know what they thought they were looking for. Maybe they had gotten a call about

something else. But I still don't think that was the way to 01:07:00treat me or anybody

else. But I internalized it as, you know, this is how you're...this is the

treatment that you're giving black students all the time.

And, you know, it was little stuff like that that, you know, everyone could tell

a story about. And if they don't tell a story about having that kind of

experience then they're either lying or they're naïve about it. But at the

same time, I also, I kind of don't let those experiences define my Virginia Tech

experience because I also got treated like that when I was on the strip at

Virginia Beach and some cop came up to me and everybody else in Virginia Beach

and said, you know, you shouldn't be out here you young whippersnappers. [Laughs.]

Ren: Right, it's like, you know, the way that policing works in certain

communities is not specific to this university or to anywhere, right?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Ren: So you graduate in 1990 and you 01:08:00immediately, it seems like you immediately

rolled into a job in University Relations, correct?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Ren: How long did you stay in that job for?

Matt: I was there for eight years. So I worked in [Ray Manu's] office in the

license plate program until '98 and then I got the opportunity to go to the

University of Georgia, where I was there for 17 years.

Ren: Oh, wow. Okay. So...I'm just trying to think which way to go. I mean, I

kind of know, but what brought you back to Virginia Tech, and how did those

conversations start, and just the range of feelings and emotions during this time.

Matt: The great thing, I guess, is I had the opportunity, and took advantage of

the opportunity to stay engaged with Virginia Tech even while I was somewhere

else. 01:09:00And part of that, I think, had to do with where I was working at Georgia,

in the president's office. It was high level administration and I had a boss in

my president who was supportive of me remaining involved in my alumni volunteer

work, my work with my professional organization, which is [CASE].

Ren: Which you received the distinguished service award from in 2015.

Matt: Yeah. They obviously couldn't find anybody else.

Ren: Oh, come on.

Matt: And part of that experience, that volunteer experience and engagement

experience, is that I got to serve as a member of the board of the alumni

association. And that was a wonderful experience, and I was blessed to be

elected to serve as president for the final two years of my tenure. And I had

just completed that, and 01:10:00so I had this experience in the alumni association as a volunteer.

I had experience in communications and public relations from all the time I'd

been doing that. I had raised some money. And so all of the stuff that we're

doing in advancement was cool. I had some good relationships and good

experiences, and I'd been a senior member of a school just like Virginia Tech in Georgia.

And then all this transition happened with Dr. Steger retiring, Dr. Sands coming

on board, and then him building out a new team, including hiring my current boss

in Charlie Phlegar, who I've known for years, and he and I were actually on some

boards together as well. And I had this great job at Georgia--a great job at Georgia.

I loved the people I was working with, I enjoyed and 01:11:00was learning a lot from the

president that I was working for, and I kind of said to myself as long as

Georgia keeps me, I don't really have a reason to leave, it's a great job. And

my kids were raised there. We had jut built our family there. I said, but only

if one job in the world came open would I ever leave it, and lo and behold, the

job came open. The job came open and people let me know about it.

I definitely expressed interest in it. And quicker than I could have imagined,

it was presented to me. And so, you know, I have the best job in the world, and

I'm lucky to get it.

Ren: Can you take me to telling your dad that you were coming back to Virginia

Tech, that phone call or when you saw him, what was that like? 01:12:00Matt: It was over the phone, and I pretty much think, if I remember right, he

said something like, well, it's about time, or something like that. For some

reason, there were a lot of people who just thought that I was--they always

thought I was coming back. They always thought that the university was going to

create something for me. It's because they kept seeing me. Because I would come

back for a lot of board meetings and a lot of games and engagements.

And my wife is from here, so I was always back in Blacksburg. So when I

left--and if I were just going on a casual trip and leaving Athens, all my

friends in Athens would be like oh, you must be going up for some job interview.

But no, actually, I'm just going up to see my mother-in-law.

Ren: Let her see the grandkids.

Matt: And there was actually, from expressions of congratulations, 01:13:00 little

surprise that I ended up back there. People just kind of thought I was coming

back. And, you know, I'm blessed that people were lobbying for me to come back,

so right place, right time, right job.

Ren: And so you succeeded Tom Tillar, correct, who we got to interview a few

weeks ago. And your title--let me get this correct--Senior Associate Vice

President for Alumni Relations. Is that correct? Okay, perfect.

So let's get to some kind of broad questions. If someone just simply says

Virginia Tech, what's kind of the first thing that you kind of think of?

Matt: Maroon and orange. I always think of the colors first. You know, I hope

that people do think Ut Prosim. I hope they do think that, you know, that's a

university 01:14:00where people who come out of it are successful and they are dedicated

to serving other people, it's just kind of in their DNA, you know, that we're

winners. We might not win the national championships, but we impress people

along the way. We just work hard. And I hear that from other alums, I hear it

from employers. I think we've earned that reputation.

Ren: So I guess you're really the perfect person to ask this question in your

position in working in alumni relations. There's this Gallup poll, right, that

everyone cites about alumni and being committed to the university. Why do you

think--and there's multiple reasons--but why do you think Virginia Tech alumni

become so engaged once they graduate?

Matt: I 01:15:00think...well, I might correct that a little bit, and I think that they

are connected. I think that they have a great deal of connection and affinity.

Engagement, at least how we're trying to define it, is kind of a separate issue.

That's not to take away from your question. Why are they so connected? I just

think it's part of the culture. I think that people value the experience.

They value the breadth of the experience that you get here at Virginia Tech, and

the diversity of the experience that you get. I think they value that whatever

happened here at Virginia Tech, first of all you made lifelong friends, I'm

assuming, and somehow it helped you do the next thing. It helped you with a job

or it helped you with a project. It just helped you think.

I think it's something that--I don't think, I 01:16:00know--something that we're doing

as a university and as a culture and as individuals and then as a group is just,

it's making people appreciate everything about Virginia Tech. And you appreciate

the games, and you appreciate the beauty of the facilities, and you appreciate

the people that you get to meet and interact, and the parties that--the things

you can do on the drill field.

One of my presidents that I worked for was really, really, really big on the

impact of physical space on your experience. And so small things like brick

colors and carpet colors in a building mattered. And for a while we would always

ask why are we even letting the president choose what the fabric is on a chair

in a building? What a waste of his time. And why do we even want him to be that

kind of a micro 01:17:00manager as the president of this large $1.6 billion university?

But he understood that small things like that matter. And I think Virginia Tech,

over the long haul, has done a really good job of paying attention to those

things, and what the physical space means. And so I think it causes people to

enjoy and appreciate the experience that much more.

So when you talk to any Virginia Tech alum, whether they are a freshman or

someone who is 95 years old, was in the Corps of Cadets, you say the drill field

and everyone has the same experience because that was a common space that we

very purposefully now sort of crafted what it looks and feels like. Hokie stone

in our buildings. I think that that's...those little things matter and enhance

the--okay, I also had this really cool 01:18:00professor who, you know, or I also lived

in this residence hall where my roommates and I would all play backgammon or whatever.

Ren: Do you think your dad had that sense as well of that kind of...I mean, I

know it was a completely different time, but did he sense it then?

Matt: I think it was a means to an end for him, and maybe for him and all his

colleagues, all his friends during that time.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: Because they really came to Virginia Tech to earn engineering degrees, and

engineering degrees that they couldn't earn at another institution. That was

really what got them in was that you couldn't get this degree at Virginia State.

And then they, you know, each of them went on to do something related to that

field or... Particularly, as I think about my dad, I think about Essex Finney, I

think about 01:19:00Charlie Yates, they went on to get careers in the area where they

got their degree.

And I just think that they kind of understood that if I'm going to really be

successful in my life that I need to get a degree from the best place I can get

a degree from. Seeing that they could not live on campus, I think that they

really didn't...they can't speak to that experience. And I think that living on

campus, for us, even if we only did it for one year, we knew what that was all

about, and it was cool.

And even when we moved off campus, we still came and hung out with people who

were on campus. There were just some experiences that he wasn't allowed to do

that I don't take for granted that we got to do that were really important. You

know, another thing I think is kind of cool, talking about physical spaces,

here's something I really do remember.

When I 01:20:00used to hang out on campus, I used to hang out on the wall in front of

Pamplin and the wall in front of McBride. That's where we would hang out. If I

had a class at 11:00 a.m. I'd come at 9:00 and just sit on the wall and watch

people go by. That would be where you would meet people or you would tell

people, you know, meet me here at this time. And it was the daytime club. It was

where we would hang out. And they were real social spaces. I think Dietrick--

Ren: That's what I was going to say.

Matt: --was also one of those spaces.

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: I walk by those spaces now and I don't see...there's no one doing it. They

don't that anymore. And I was trying to figure out why. And I think part of it

is that you no longer have to be in a physical space to hang out with someone

anymore. You can do it in a chat room, or you can do it...you can just text one

another. So I don't have to say I need you to meet me on the Pamplin wall at

10:30 so we can talk about the party we're going to go to tonight, or we can

talk about the project that we have to complete, 'cause 01:21:00we can do that now in an

electronic way. And I think it's--

Ren: Kind of complete--yeah, it kind of completely changes how we interact with

one another.

Matt: Yeah.

Ren: And especially in the university.

Matt: And I think from my experience, at least what I valued from my--because

those were the types of memories that I remember more than anything else. I

think from my experience and comparing to what--I think that's missing for these

kids. I wish that they had the opportunity. I wish that you had the opportunity,

students. Or found value in the opportunity of just hanging out somewhere.

And we build, in colleges and universities we build these behemoth student

centers now, and we build it on the premise of we've got to have places for

students just to hang out. That might be a waste of money these days.

Ren: Yeah, right. You were talking about the wall in front of Dietrick, because

I lived in Pritchard freshman year, and that was a huge hangout. And I got to

meet, I met Tyrod Taylor there just randomly. 01:22:00We just went to grab food at DX,

you know, underneath there, and, you know, there, you know, a future NFL star.

Matt: Yeah.

Ren: So thinking about today in 2017 on this somewhat warm April day, when you

look around this campus that you have such history with, with your father, with

yourself, and then coming back to it in the current position that you are in,

what inspires you, or what really encourages you? And then kind of the reverse

of that, what concerns you?

Matt: I think what inspires me is that we still produce greatness. And I would

like to think we do it kind of deliberately, although I know in some respects it

just kind of happens. But 01:23:00I'm encouraged that the place remains, that the space

and the place remains a destination for people who have had experiences here.

Everyone wants to come back. Everyone wants to be back here for some reason and

part of this place. And I think it's because of everything--the weather, the

nature, the culture, the facilities, the people.

I just think that that inspires me, that we are already producing this

leadership class in the state and in the country, and that we continue to do so,

and we keep bringing in these bright young minds that almost teach us how to do

it. I'm discouraged 01:24:00by... Well, the things that discourage me also encourage me.

I'm probably more discouraged--I'm discouraged, one, by the thing I just talked

about before, and that is how people interact with each other, that we're sort

of losing that. I'm discouraged because...I'm discouraged by things that are

external to the university. I'm discouraged by things like the political climate.

I'm discouraged by the overall lack of civility in today's culture. I'm

discouraged by a lot of the stuff that you, quite frankly, see when you turn the

TV on. But I go back to being encouraged by the fact that every time I meet a

future alum--that's what I call the students, future alums--I know that they're

on their way to doing something to 01:25:00solve all the things that I'm discouraged by.

And I kind of like the fact that Virginia Tech has this reputation of if you

want the problem solved, get a Hokie to do it. And that I get to be the

spokesman for that is awesome, you know?

Ren: Right.

Matt: You know, as it relates to my dad, I'm always telling the story that my

dad was a guy that the university didn't necessarily want to be here.

And then one generation later, his son is the one who's the leader of the entire

alumni nation. That's a pretty powerful story. Not for me and not for my dad,

but for the university to do that. And then I even take it further and I say you

know my dad tells a story about the president of the university calling him and

saying you don't need to go to this 01:26:00time honored tradition of the university,

and that's Ring Dance.

And one generation later the president of the same university is calling his son

and saying come be the chief alumni officer of Virginia Tech. That's a really

powerful story to me, and one I hope gets told and people can appreciate,

because again, that's not about me and it's not about my dad, it's about

Virginia Tech and its movement and its progression.

And I'm encouraged that if Virginia Tech can move in that fashion, then it can

continue to grow and be better. And I'd like for Virginia Tech to do it quicker,

you know, in a more rapid pace. But you just kind of understand that that's how

big ships move.

Ren: What changes kind of have you seen over time, both in, like we were talking

about, physical space, and kind of what do you think about them? And then

looking ahead, what changes would you like to see?

Matt: The 01:27:00changes in the physical space are...we just keep getting new good

stuff. I mean, that's...I don't know any other way to put that. And it

has...what I like is that it kind of permeates beyond the campus borders. You

see new buildings and new restaurants and things in town or something that if

don't have an outline of Hokie stone at least have the colors, and so we have

that impact on the external community.

And I kind of like the continuity of all that. I think it speaks to the

community of the place. I think that we still need to find ways to, even in new

architecture and construction--and we've got some 01:28:00brilliant people working in

these areas--but I think we need to also find a way to preserve and celebrate

the history as we're building something new. Hokie stone helps you do that, but

it's not always the way to do that. I mean, sometimes it's in the way that

facilities are shaped, or it's the way that the landscaping and infield is shaped.

I look at this, like right outside--of course your listeners won't be able to

see what I'm looking at right now--but this broad lawn that's outside of this

particular building, which is a beautiful structure and a beautiful building.

But what a great opportunity, instead of just have a broad, open space like

that, to maybe have an amphitheater where we can celebrate music and performance

right here in the alumni space.

And so that would give me a programming opportunity to bring back alums who are

in the performance industry and have 01:29:00them celebrate and perform right here in

this building that is supposed to be built for alums, for their home. So things

like that I think that we can be more creative and think about. I think we also

have to recognize scale. Even some of the more contemporary buildings that we're

building right now don't consider that we've got 50,000 people here every day.

32,000 students, 10,000 employees and what, 8,000, whatever the number might be

just visitors who come every day, whether they're coming for business, or are

visiting parents, or taking tours. And so some of our venues are built for the

1990 capacity, and in 2017 now we've got 20% more people than we had then, and

we've got to have--

Ren: Busting at the 01:30:00seams a little.

Matt: You know, we've got to have...and other infrastructure issues around. I

can kind of be a nerd about some of the infrastructure, too. But I get it. But

as a wish list, I would... You know, for example, Ring Dance. And I mention Ring

Dance because it is a time honored tradition, and one that's really important

here, and really successful here. We now have 3,000 people or so who come to

Ring Dance.

Which means we've now had to split it up into two different nights because the

largest venue on campus, Squires--

Ren: Squires Colonial, yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Can't hold 3,000 people, so we've got to divvy it out 1,500 people

at a time. And, you know, as we start to really get more people involved and

engaged and excited about Virginia Tech, because now we have 252,000 alums--not

that all 01:31:00252,000 would ever come back at the same time, but if 3,000 of them

came back at the same time, we kind of don't have a place to put them except on

the drill field.

Ren: Yeah. Have to talk to [Greg] about that.

Matt: And I don't have a tent big enough to do that. Now granted, I wouldn't

build a massive facility just for one dance, but there's no other place to do

it. Just kind of got to figure out some ways around some of that stuff. Not just

for the sake of doing it, but how does it support the--this goes back to your

original question.

How does a facility support the growing engagement of our alumni body. And

that's what we've got to pay some attention to.

Ren: Last couple of questions. I appreciate you being so generous with your time.

Matt: Oh, no, it's fine.

Ren: I looked at your calendar a couple days ago and I got a little nervous.

What would you like people to know about you, and also to know about Virginia

Tech? And this, you know, 01:32:00positive or negative.

Matt: What do they need to know about me? I love Virginia Tech, and I wake up

every day and go to bed every night thinking about what can I do to make

Virginia Tech better, cooler, funner, bigger, smaller, whatever it needs to be.

But I do. I've taken to heart what my responsibility is, and that is to be the

chief alumni officer for the greatest university in the world, in my opinion.

And then I'd want them to know about Virginia Tech that Virginia Tech is worthy

of the engagement and attention and support that every alum can give to it, that

Virginia Tech has earned it, and 01:33:00no other university deserves or is worthy of

your loyalty than this one. And I only have to ask you to think back on your

experience, your current situation, and where you see your future as evidence of

Virginia Tech. Even, you know, we were talking about some of the challenges of

our students of color. We have been pretty...doing a really good job of having

reunions for our students of different colors, backgrounds and differences.

And most of them say--first, the fact that they come back is a testament, in one

respect. But it's not uncommon to hear them say I may have had this negative

experience, I may have had this, but what happened to me at Virginia Tech

prepared me to be successful in what I'm doing right 01:34:00now. And I want that same

experience for the people who come back behind me. I think that's why people

come back, is something about that experience.

And then, you know, you start to really dig into it, and they may have some

negative experiences, but then they find a way to turn to some of the things

that you asked me about before, and, you know, what was your support network

like, and they sort of freshen up and say well, you know, the people who I was

hanging out with and the members of these clubs and organizations got me through.

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: And that's not localized to just students of color. I know a whole bunch

of kids can say that, whether they come from rural backgrounds, or whether they,

you know, maybe they come from a huge school like I did, but they didn't want to

see those people anymore, and they found a different network, or they found a

teacher or a mentor or something. I think that's pretty cool.

Ren: What are you passionate 01:35:00 about?

Matt: Hokies. Right now that's it. Yeah, I'm probably passionate about a lot of

things. Probably too many things. I want equity in the world. I want people to

be treated fairly. I want people to be treated with respect and civility. I hate hypocrites.

Which tells you why I don't like today's American politics. But right now I'm

consumed with Virginia Tech, and I don't have any qualms about it.

Ren: You're preaching to the converted as they say, right? Can I ask you about

your class ring there?

Matt: Yeah. Did someone tell you to ask me about my class ring?

Ren: They did not.

Matt: I'm really excited about my class ring.

Ren: Okay. 01:36:00Matt: I didn't get one when I was in school. I just didn't. Don't necessarily

have a reason why, I just didn't. And in my mind kind of said I wish I had, but

never did. And at some points in my career I always kept saying I'll get one

sometime when I get the money to get it or something. But last year, year before

last, shortly after I arrived, I took a trip to the ring company, Balfour, to

their plant.

And they were literally making the rings that they were getting ready to ship

back to us for Ring Dance. So I was seeing these rings come off the assembly

line and, you know, seeing the names of some of the students who we advised. I

mean, I was seeing rings that belonged to people, and it was really kind of cool.

And the process--you know, like I said, I'm a nerd about some things--the

process is fascinating how they make these rings, 01:37:00from...'cause I get to see it

on the front end. I get to see the students sit down with an artist, talk about

concepts, and all the little intricacies that they want to see on the ring, and

they draw it out, and they argue about it, and they, you know, they figure out

what they're comfortable with and so on and so forth.

And then someone puts it into some CAD design, some computer program, and then

it gets shipped. And so I was seeing these technicians maneuver it on a computer

screen in 3D imagery and then push a button, and then walking over to this

little machines over here, and it's sculpting it out like in, I don't know,

Styrofoam or burlap, I don't know what they make it out of.

But then to go and then get stone, and then get crafted, and then dipped in

whatever the metal is. And I got to see it all. And I guess--like I said, I'm a

nerd about it--I guess there was this look on my face of completely awe, and 01:38:00 the

workers there saw that look on my face.

And while I was looking at something else, they went down into the archives and

pulled out all my ring cores from my class and said we'll make a ring for you.

And I'm like, are you kidding? They're like no, we'll do it. And so they were

going to make my ring. And I was like this is really cool, but the only thing I

want you to do is make it and deliver it to me the same time you deliver the

class rings so that I can be a part of their Ring Dance.

And so they did that. And so I received my class ring the same time that the

class of '17 received theirs, that Ring Dance, and it was really cool and

special. And yeah, that's...so I really like my class ring a lot.

Ren: That's awesome.

Matt: When I was leaving the plant, ironically I got a call from my dad, who was

just calling me to say something. And he's like, where are you? And I'm like,

I'm at this place where they make Virginia 01:39:00Tech class rings. And he said, oh,

that reminds me. And then he just told me the story about his class ring, 'cause

despite the fact that he didn't go to Ring Dance, he still got a class ring. And

he said, yeah, it was a little dinged up, and he said they called me and I got

it resized and refit, and I just got my class ring. So it was really kind of a cool--

Ren: That's awesome.

Matt: --thing that happened with his class ring, too, and, you know, that's...I

think it's kind of cool.

Ren: I was looking at mine the other day. I can get it to about right here and

that's as far as I can go.

Matt: You know we can have it resized.

Ren: I'm going to have to, 'cause I need to start wearing it again after seeing yours.

Matt: Call our office and I'll get you connected with the person. It's part of

your contract. They'll resize it.

Ren: Okay, perfect. Thank you so much for doing this. I really, really

appreciate it.

Matt: Thank you.

Ren: Really the last question is if there's anything that we haven't asked you

that you thought I would ask or anything you would really like to say. It's just

kind of an open floor for you to say whatever.

Matt: No, I think what you're doing is really cool, and it's really important.

Having nothing to do with me, but just sort of collecting these histories of

people from a variety of experiences about what they feel and what they do. It's

an arduous task, I know, trying to put almost this compendium together, and I

like the fact that you're doing it from a research base, and that you're making

it publicly available for people to experience.

And I know I might even ask you what's the strategy about finding common threads

in stories and highlighting that? Is there talk about that?

Ren: Yeah, definitely. Especially among cohorts that were here around the same

time, really within these stories, as they're getting kind of logged into

special collections, when we write these summaries we go through and see

similarities between. So if someone were interested in, say, someone that was

here during Frank Beamer's first year, that would be a notifier, and they could

kind of just ping that and find your story, learn about 1987 when Frank Beamer

was hired. And there's so many what we call tags. On our website you'll

see...for example, we're working on a featured faculty section now.

So Nikki Giovanni, her tag, VT featured faculty, you go to our website, you can

search it, find all the stories about faculty, different class Corps stories.

And we're actually working now on an April 16th segment. And [Jessie's] been

involved, and some of the other interns and I about stories of April 16th that

have came up, and how to best kind of memorialize and remember this event coming

up. And it's going to be our featured story starting next week. So really just

kind of grouping all these stories together so there is a common, you know, a

common thread.

Matt: That's cool.

Ren: So one thing I want to say before we end is--and I told Greg this, and I

also told Tom Tillar this--when Dr. Cline and I first started doing these

interviews summer of 2015, we were given this pilot study, so we did these ten

names, and we interviewed people like David Lowe and Buddy Russell and others.

And just on behalf of--and I know [Katie] has mentioned this, too--but on behalf

of the entire VT Stories team, thank you so much for your support of this

endeavor, because with out the alumni association, without [us] and working with

Greg and getting names, and even just the simple fact of emails and telephone

numbers, that goes a long way. And we're able to branch out and do all these things.

I did a presentation at Warm Hearth yesterday and I spoke to a graduate who is

99 years old. He's turning 100 in six weeks. And again, immediately we were able

to connect about stories about the drill field. So it's linking generations of

alumni together. And VT Stories is really just a landing place for other oral

histories that have occurred on campus and just a way for someone really just to

learn an oral history, really, of Virginia Tech. So just thank you so much. And

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Matt: That's easy. You probably don't have to thank me for that. I'm committed

to...if the only thing I can commit to is helping identify cohorts of people

that you can...hopefully will spend time with you, and then we have the built in

mechanism of doing them around particularly reunions, whether they are Old Guard

reunions, or the Black Alumni reunion. I mentioned earlier we're going to have

these reunions of the Hokie Club counselors and the orientation leaders.

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: That might be a good group that we can, while they're here, at the end of

July--excuse me, end of June, get you to... Because they would be my

contemporaries. I mean, they'd be...you're talking about that gap over the--

Ren: Yeah.

Matt: Mid '80s, late '80s to the early '90s.

Ren: That would be perfect.

Matt: Most of them will be in that area. So we'll help. We can help get that.

And even if it's helping with facilitating the interview time slots during the

times that they're here, we can do that. too.

Ren: Absolutely.

Matt: The only thing I would add at the end is that there are...I could probably

go through a list, a litany of people who helped me get to where I am. Some of

them I mentioned as former teachers, but there's also, there's Nikki Giovanni,

who was supportive.

There's Larry Hincker, who was my first boss, who hired me into University

Relations. And Tom Tillar is one of them, people who were just supportive of me.

Like I said, the professors that I mentioned, people like Julie Sina, who was

the dean of students, and Barbara Pendergrass. I'm saying names that I hope will

come up in other interviews.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely.

Matt: Because they were people who were supportive of me and important to me,

and not just to me, but to many people. I just know that they played a role in

certainly helping me get to where I was getting to. Dean Sorensen, who was my

business dean at the time. Charlie Steger, who is my friend and certainly former

president. Just a lot of really, really, really, really good people.

And the only thing I'd probably ask you to--I can tell you right now you can go

ahead and get rid of that whole segment I talked about with people getting shot

all the time. You can cut that out. [Laughs.]

Ren: Okay. [Laughs.] No worries. We'll take care of that.

Matt: But other than that, I didn't say anything that I regretted or would take

back, and I would...if you wanted to edit for time or content or whatever, you

have license to do that.

Ren: Perfect. So I'll say this. Matt Winston, class of--Matt Winston, Jr., I'm

sorry--class of 1990, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks, man.

Matt: Thank you.

Ren: Thank you.