VT Stories Oral History with Kim Muller, April 29, 2017 (Ms2016-015)

00:00:00

Ren Harman: Good evening. This is Ren Harman, the VT Stories project manager.

Today is April 28th?

Kim Muller: 9th.

Ren: 29th, 2017, and we are in Houston, Texas. A very special guest with us

today. So if I can just ask you, in a complete sentence, just to state, for the

record, your full name, when you were born, and where you were born.

Kim: Yeah, thank you, Ren. My name's [Kimbley] Laird Muller, and I was born June

16, 1946 in Chicago, Illinois.

Ren: What yeas did you attend Virginia Tech?

Kim: I started in 1964 and I graduated actually in '69 because I had...I was two

classes short in June of '68.

Ren: Okay.

Kim: So I had to go back for the winter 00:01:00semester--or...yeah. We had fall and

winter semesters then--quarters.

Ren: Quarters.

Kim: Yeah, so I went back for the winter quarter. We didn't have semesters then.[1]

Ren: What was your major?

Kim: General sciences is what I graduated in, but I started out in chemistry.[2]

And I switched in my junior year. I just felt like I wasn't going to be a really

great chemist ever, so I wanted to get better knowledge of the sciences. And at

that time I was thinking about being a patent lawyer, so I thought that would be

a better way to approach that. And by the time I was at the end of my junior

year it was way too late to change to engineering because I hadn't taken any of

the pre-engineering 00:02:00courses, only had chemistry and physics. But I would have

been there another two years if I had gone back and tried to be an engineer.

Ren: So you were born in Chicago.[3] So can you tell me a little bit about your

early life, and growing up, and what it was like?

Kim: Well, I won the parent lottery, I think. I had the greatest parents anybody

could ask for. We lived in a semi affluent area. My father was a chemical

engineer, and he had a master's degree in chemical engineering. At one time he

was with what is now Amoco, but then it was Standard Oil of Indiana. And then he

went on to have his own company for about 20 years, and they were in potash

mining in New Mexico. Had a great mother. She, you know, dedicated to me, and

she would do anything that she thought was the right thing to do that I asked

her to do.

So 00:03:00had great parents, and it was a great community to grow up in. Went to

grammar school there and junior high school there, and then when I got out of

junior high school, I went away to school to a place called Elgin Academy, which

is about 30 miles away. And I wanted to go there, and I went there for four

years. And it was a school where you stayed on campus full-time, so it was a

very close-knit community. It was maybe 150 students, so everybody knew everybody.

And one of the reasons I wanted to go there is I wanted to play football and I

knew I was never good enough to play for the local school, 'cause they were

really good. And I wanted to play basketball, and I knew I couldn't play

basketball 'cause I was way too short. But I got to play basketball and football

there. We weren't very good at what we did, but 00:04:00at least I got to participate.

Ren: Did you have any brothers or sisters?

Kim: I had a stepsister.

Ren: A stepsister?

Kim: Yeah.

Ren: Oh, okay. So when you started thinking about college and where you were

going to go to college, how did Virginia Tech come into the picture?

Kim: Well, it's a good question. I was looking for a football scholarship, but I

wasn't...I was All Conference for three years, but I wasn't really very good

when it came to big schools like Ohio State and Illinois. I mean, I never could

have even walked on at those schools. So I was looking at little colleges, like

I think there's one in Iowa named Grinnell, something like that. And they really

weren't offering scholarships. The school was just too small. And so I started

looking around. And my father knew a professor of 00:05:00physics at Virginia Tech,

Professor Hsu.

And he knew some other people, and he asked me if I would be interested, and I

said I would. I didn't know anything about Virginia. But I went down there for a

summer and really liked it.[4] I loved the campus. Even back then it was a

beautiful campus. So that's really how I got there. I never really applied to

any of the other schools that were what I considered to be big schools, you

know, Georgia Tech, or Virginia Tech, or North Carolina, or Illinois. I just

wanted to get out of that kind of Illinois spirit. Everybody that I graduated

with went to either Illinois, Southern Illinois, Bradley, places like that.

Ren: That first memory of the Virginia Tech campus, do you remember what it

looked like, smelled like?

Kim: Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Now I went there in the 00:06:00summer, so I lived in the

Corps of Cadets barracks, even though I wasn't in the Corps. And that was the

first year that I didn't have to be in the Corps.[5] And we were in the upper

quad, and Williams Hall, and we had our meals in Shanks. And I just loved being

there in the summer. It was really nice. You know, when you're in Illinois, you

don't really know what a mountain is, so when I got there I thought these

mountains are just fantastic. I really, I liked the beauty of the campus, and

the drill field was really pretty. I liked that setting.

Ren: What was your freshman year like?

Kim: Well, I wasn't...I was totally inactive socially, 'cause I was really

worried about getting my academics together.

So I wouldn't go out on Saturday night or Friday nights, and I would stay 00:07:00in and

study. You know, all my life I've had this fear of failure, and I'll do anything

to keep from failing. That's how I got through law school and the teaching at

Virginia Tech. I just want to be a success at anything I do. And so I spent my

first year pretty much in the academic environment at Virginia Tech.

And at that time we only had maybe 40 to 100 girls there, and so there wasn't

really a social atmosphere. You could go to Radford if you wanted to. But that

just seemed like an awful long way to go to, you know, for a, you know, a three

hour date. So I just stayed on campus and essentially 00:08:00studied my first year.

Ren: Thinking about the time period that you were there in the mid '60s, we were

kind of on the evolution of a lot of change in our society. Did you see any of

that kind of translated into the campus and Blacksburg writ large?

Kim: You mean currently?

Ren: No, when you were there in the '60s.

Kim: I don't understand the question.

Ren: As a student.

Kim: Yeah?

Ren: Thinking about what was going on at that time period in our society.

Kim: Oh. No. No. That was beyond what I would have thought about. And, you know,

the '60s were a time of rebellion, but not at Virginia Tech. It was a very calm

campus. I guess if you wanted to you could find your sources of rebellion, but

no, it was a place to get an education for me. And that's what I was thankful

for, and that's what I was there for, and therefore I just couldn't filter

anything other than what my current situation was.[6]

Ren: Just kind of keeping your head down, studying.

Kim: Well, that's what I 00:09:00was there for. I wasn't there to be a rabble-rouser.

And Vietnam, at the time, was something that I was really ambivalent about

because I just didn't know what was going on. In retrospect it was a terrible

decision for us to do that as a country. But at the time you heard pros and you

heard cons, and I just wasn't gonna try to figure that out when I was trying to

get an education.

And I had no control over it anyway, so, you know, I just kept my head down and

tried to get the best education I could get for the four years I was there. And

I did realize, when I was there, that that four years was probably gonna be one

of the best times of my life, and I just decided to enjoy it more than worry

about the world at large.[7]

Ren: In your major, 00:10:00who were some influential professors or advisors?

Kim: Well, my favorite teacher was Dr. Mason, who has since passed away. He was

my analytical chemistry teacher. And I thought he was really wonderful. He

really cared about the students. There was a math teacher. I believe his name

was [Lechy]. And he was also someone that I really related to.

But every one of the teachers--I call them teachers--the professors really had

my interest at heart. And when I would go in and talk to counselors--I don't

remember their names now--but they would spend as much time as I wanted talking

to them. And I think that's probably true today of the people in the College of

Science. I don't know how it is in engineering. [8]

But my take on the College of Science is that they really do care about the

students, and I felt that way when I was there.

Ren: When you were there in 00:11:001965, Lane Stadium opened. Do you remember that time?

Kim: Oh, absolutely. Actually, my first year War Memorial was the place they

played football. The stadium didn't open until the spring, I believe, but I saw

it under construction. And we would go out in the field, you know, when it was

being constructed, and I certainly do remember it. It was really a step change

for the school because no one that I really remember knows or remembers about

War Memorial Stadium, but it was really bad. You know, they had hard bleachers

and it was small. It was like a high school. And so this was really a step change.

Ren: What are some of your favorite memories or experiences from your time,

would you say?

Kim: Well, most of them are educational. And I was 00:12:00thankful for that. But I can

remember going to the football games there. Even when I was there in the '60s

football was a big thing. Jerry Claiborne was the coach. And I actually went to

talk to him about being a walk on, and it just wasn't gonna work out with my

size and speed, so I didn't do it.

Ren: What was your position?

Kim: Guard. Guard and tackle. I was just too small. And I went out and I looked

at the players that were playing and I thought, man, these guys could hurt me,

so I'm not doing this.

Ren: [Laughs.]

Kim: So, you know, the sports, the basketball, I love basketball, and going to

the Coliseum, which is the same place today. It was really great. 00:13:00We didn't have

the...when I was there we didn't have the visitors, the alumni that would come

in for week day games, so it was almost all students. And it was fun to go to.

Ren: Looking through some of the Bugle archives, I find there was an

interesting...it seems like the years that you were there there was always a

section in the Bugle about registration and what a headache it may have been to

Kim: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Actually, if you want to hear kind of a funny

story, I got so frustrated at the registration system that I just got in line

with al the football players and I registered two semesters for whatever they

were registering for, and I ended up with a minor in field crops.[9]

Ren: [Laughs.]

Kim: I don't know how I did that, but for a guy from Chicago, that was really,

that was an accomplishment. But it was very frustrating, and they probably did

the best they could with the technology at that time. But it just seems so

archaic now.

And it was...and the fact 00:14:00is that even back then when you registered you never

could register for a class with a particular professor. You just registered for

English 503 or whatever it is and they would assign you a professor. And it just

would have been much easier if you could have chosen your professor if you

registered early, and when the class fills up, it fills up. But it was pretty

archaic, and it wasn't something that's a fond memory.

Ren: I just find it really interesting, looking through those, that that was

something that was so important to the students that they had a section devoted

to it in the Bugle for two or three years. I also learned there was a blizzard.

Do you remember a blizzard in 1966?

Kim: Yep, yep. I remember it. And it was pretty severe. It was like 20 or 25

inches of snow. And they closed the university, which is really unusual back then.

Now they close it every time it rains, it seems. 00:15:00But yeah, they closed the

university for two or three days.

Ren: Was that a lot of snow from someone coming from Chicago?

Kim: No, not really, but it's a lot of snow in the mountains when you can't get

around and it's dangerous to have people out on the roads. So that was a smart

thing to do.

Ren: Did you have any difficult experiences or times that were hard for you

during your undergrad education?

Kim: I can't say that I did. I lived off campus for the last two years in a

little place called Draper's Meadows, and I had three roommates, and we got

along well. And I was getting an education. I liked where I 00:16:00was. I liked all my

professors. So I was pretty content. And I really didn't have any major upsets.

You know, I was healthy, my parents were healthy. I was getting a good education

and I appreciated that. So no, I don't really think I did. I never got into any

fights or arguments with people or, you know, disputes with anybody about

anything. You know, this was at a time before student loans, and I was fortunate

that my parents could afford to send me there, being out of state.

So I was just appreciative that I was there, more than, you know, being

argumentative or trying to create an issue or anything else. I guess I was

pretty craven about, you know, just keeping my head down, and not making waves,

and wanting to get through school with the best education I could, and 00:17:00get out

and go to law school and do something.

I really didn't want any, you know, black marks on my curriculum.

Ren: When did you make the decision that you wanted to go to law school?

Kim: Well, I graduated with a degree, and I went up to Illinois, where I moved

in with my parents. I had a job in Hopewell, Virginia for six months and then I

was laid off because the polyester business was just not gonna pan out for

Firestone. And so I went back to live in Chicago. And when I was living there,

my father took me down and introduced me to a number of the lawyers that

represented him. And they came from the gambit of, you know, this is a great

life, you'll really like it, to I don't think you're smart enough to go to law

school, don't bother. And that was the ultimate challenge.

So I decided to, you know, 00:18:00what the heck. I was 22 years old. I decided just to

try it and see if I liked it. And it turned out to actually be the best four

years of my life. It was just...as somebody who had a science background, I

didn't think I would prosper in law school, and it was just the opposite because

I had been taught at Virginia Tech to think analytically through scientific

problems in math, and all the other people that were in my law school class,

they had a terrible time analytically thinking about legal situations.

And as it turned out, we started with 240 students in our law school class,

night and day, and in the night division we graduated 11. So there was a high

attrition rate. Now some of those migrated to the day school and got out in

three years, but in the four year just plodding through, it...a lot of attrition.

And the top three people in our 00:19:00class were myself and two electrical engineers.

Ren: Through science.

Kim: Yeah, three scientists.

Ren: Wow. So what year did you graduate from law school?

Kim: I was a 1975 graduate, John Marshall Law School. And then I'm a 1978

graduate of George Washington Law School. I got a master's degree in patent and

trade regulation at George Washington.[10]

Ren: You started at Shell in 1985, correct?

Kim: I moved here in--actually interviewed in '84, moved here in early '85.

Ren: Can you kind of give us the timeline between once you graduated law school

until you started here?

Kim: Well, I was at UOP in Des Plaines, Illinois. We were a oil licensing

company. And I went 00:20:00and opened their Washington office.

Actually, it was Crystal City, but in Virginia. And I was there for about ten

years and decided, just looking at it, that I only had five years' experience

even though I'd been with the company for 15 years. And I didn't want to do

that. And so our biggest licensee was Shell Oil Co., so I knew a few people, and

I started asking around.

And they sent a recruiter up and interviewed me, and I interviewed with them.

And when I found out that about 70% of their IP staff was eligible to retire,

that meant that there were gonna be opportunities, and I liked the people

anyway, so I resigned my 00:21:00position in Washington and moved to Houston,[11] in

this lot, but not in this house.

And, you know, I was never sad about the decision I made. I had offers from big

law firms in D.C. and they just were too cutthroat for me. And I didn't want to

worry about billing and clientele and stuff. I just thought I would be happier

in a corporate environment, and that's why I went with a corporation. And once I

got there, made good friends, and it was a wonderful company to work for, a

Dutch company.

Ren: If someone just simply says Virginia Tech, what's the first thing that you

kind of think of?

Kim: Well, I think about my teaching up there in the College of Science.

Ren: Can you talk a little bit about that?

Kim: Well, I started in, I think it was, 2002 I went up for a guest lecture. And

there was a lot of students that seemed to be interested, so they asked me to

come back and volunteer to teach 00:22:00a course in 2003.

And I told them that because of the policies of Shell Oil Co., I couldn't take

another job where I got reimbursed for money. I could get reimbursed for

expenses, 'cause that was something that was not, you know, income to me. So I

told them I would only do it on a volunteer basis, that's all I could do. And we

started in 2003, and we went through about 16 years, 15 years, something like

that, or 14 years. And the classes built up. [12]

And then about maybe eight years ago now Anna came into the school and she

started to build it up as a minor. I know Dean Chang wanted me to do a lot more,

but, you know, at the time I was doing major litigation, and I simply could not

fiddle with all of the administration stuff that you needed to to expand the

program or to 00:23:00get it into a minor stage.

Ren: And you were commuting, so that...

Kim: I would fly to Charlotte. You can't fly from here to Roanoke. It's almost

impossible. And so I would fly to Charlotte and then drive for...at that time it

was two and a half hours. Now it's about four hours up 77 to 81. And I didn't

mind the travel because it got me out of the corporate complex and I could be

around people like Dean Chang and other professors that operated in a totally

different fashion than my confederates at Shell Oil Co., which was extremely

profit driven, as it should have been. But the university was not that way. So I

enjoyed my teaching there.

Ren: When graduates graduate from Virginia Tech, they become attached to the

university in a way that I think is unique to the university, to Virginia Tech.

And there's been polls and studies and things. Your driving and commuting on a 00:24:00volunteer basis is almost evidence of that. So why do you think maybe some

alumni become so, you know, attached to the university?

Kim: Well, that's an excellent question that's not answerable, I don't think.

There is a certain spirit at present, and the person that exemplified that the

best was Dean Chang, to me. And I think he's the type of person that bonds

people to a philosophy in school where you don't really see that--I don't see

that from other people that I know that are graduates of North Carolina and

Georgia Tech. I mean, they're all fond alumni, but it's different. And I can't

really 00:25:00explain why it's so different, but it definitely is.[13]

I think the closest I can come to it is probably the UVA experience. You know,

people that go to UVA love it there, and they're dedicated also to it. And I

don't know whether it's a Virginia thing or a southern thing, but you don't see

that at Houston. You do see that somewhat at Rice here. But UT is just too big

and Texas A&M is kind of like Virginia Tech, but it's really big.

Ren: What changes have you seen throughout your time, both as a student and then

also teaching there, and kind of what do you think about some of those changes?

Kim: Well, the students are much more attuned to life than I was. And they're

much smarter than I was. I would not want to have to compete with these kids in

the marketplace at that peer level. The students are 00:26:00really remarkable. And I

may have had just the cream of the crop, I don't know.

But I've seen the students get more sophisticated and a lot more dedicated and

competitive in the classroom. And that is something that's very good. I can't

say that I've seen anything negative or bad about the progress of the

university. It certainly is a fine place. And I was very impressed with

President Steger. He was always nice to me.

And I was also most impressed by Dr. Sands and his wife. They are just super

people. And I think that's the kind of thing that students remember. You know,

you're just walking along the campus and you meet the president, and he speaks

to you. And I think that's kind of the spirit that draws people back. But it's

not a question I can answer, really. I don't think there is an answer to it.

Ren: 00:27:00Are there any changes that you would like to see at the university?

Kim: Oh, yeah, certainly. I would really like to see the university become more

diverse and have a lot more people of color come there. And I would like to see

the university spend money to bring people of color and Latinos into the school

and educate them.[14]

We have--I'll give you an example. We have a junior college here--I won't name

it--but a junior college, and I teach somewhat out there, too. And in the junior

college, the students have to be there for about a year and a half in remedial

education before they can start college. So it's a two year college with a four

year degree, essentially. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that society

has had such a bad 00:28:00impact upon schools where they're not in affluent areas.

And it perpetuates itself. And I'd like to see the school do something, and go

in... What they did at the University of Texas is they said we understand this

problem, and therefore everybody that graduates in the top 10% of their class is

guaranteed admission. And so there are a lot of Hispanics and blacks that go

under those programs, because if you have an all black school, 10% is gonna be

the top 10% of the class. But I'd like to see Virginia Tech become more diverse,

and I would like to see them have more of an outreach for people that may not

have been fortunate enough to have the education you get in the Alexandria,

Virginia schools, you know, in some of 00:29:00the rural schools.[15]

I can remember one of my classmates was from [Botatock] and one was from...I

can't think of it now, but it's in the eastern part of the state. It's very,

very rural. And they really didn't have the same civics understanding I had

coming from a northern school. And it wasn't them. They were just as smart as I

was. It was the opportunities that they had. I'd like to see the university do