VT Stories Oral History with Jeffrey Bowling, October 23, 2015 (Ms2016-015)

Carmen Bolt: Okay, my name is Carmen Bolt. I'm here working on the VT Stories

Project at the Virginia Tech Alumni Center on October 23rd, 2015 and I am

sitting here with Mr.?

Jeffrey Bowling: Jeffrey Bowling.

Carmen: Just to get started, you've already said your name, but could you tell

me a little bit about the place you grew up, your place of birth, the place you

grew up and what years you attended Virginia Tech?

Jeffrey: Sure. I was actually born in Wytheville, Virginia, about an hour from

Blacksburg, but grew up in Rural Retreat, Virginia, just down the road from

Wytheville, between Wytheville and Marion on the 81 Corridor. I graduated from

high school in [19]76 and then came to [Virginia] Tech that fall, and I stayed,

I got a BS in finance, and just stayed and got an MBA in finance. And by doing

the undergraduate degree in the College of Business then you had all your

prerequisites so I could finish the MBA in like a year and a half or 00:01:00so. So I

finished up undergrad in June of [19]80 and then finished with a master's degree

in December of [19]81.

Carmen: I definitely want to hear more about that, but we'll backtrack really

quickly just to talk a little bit about your family if you wouldn't mind, just

kind of how you were raised.

Jeffrey: Sure. I was the youngest of three kids, an older brother and an older

sister, and both my older brother and older sister were Virginia Tech students,

so I think that's what sort of paved the way for me to come. My brother was

seven years older than me. He graduated in [19]73 and then my sister was five

years older and she graduated in [19]75. So I was a little bit behind them, but

certainly you know as an elementary middle school aged kid would come to pick

them up and look around a little bit and that kind of thing, so that was sort of

my experience. My dad had a car dealership in Rural Retreat, a Plymouth

dealership, and my mom was a high school teacher. I had her as a teacher. All

three of us had her as a teacher, which was always an interesting 00:02:00 experience.

But she actually went to Radford College like during World War II era, past

World War II when Radord was the women's division of Virginia Tech.

Carmen: Wow, you kind of were prepared to go to Virginia Tech when that time

came, huh?

Jeffrey: Right. Hmm.

Carmen: Did you apply to any other colleges or you just knew it was Virginia

Tech from the start?

Jeffrey: Well, I did. And again I think I'm not much of a rebel, but I think I

just sort of didn't like the fact that everybody thought that's where I would

come, so I actually applied at the University of Tennessee and actually went

there for a summer semester. I was sort of late doing that and wasn't going to

get on campus housing, and at that time that school was even bigger than

[Virginia] Tech was, so I thought I would get completely lost there. So then I

had kept up on my application stuff at Virginia Tech, so I just came on to

[Virginia] Tech after I had gone to summer school at the University of

Tennessee. And I guess the only other place I applied was UVA and I was on their

waiting list 00:03:00 [laughs].

Carmen: Wow, was there the same rivalry then as there is now between UVA and

Virginia Tech?

Jeffrey: I think so probably, and I think now, again maybe thirty years later it

may not be that way, but the impression, I've got the niece that graduated from

UVA like ten years ago and the impression that I got sort of through her is that

those schools now i think are much more similar than they were when I was a

student. Because I think it was much more of a-- I mean at least at the UVA

angle, I think it was much ore stereotypical that they were just a little bit

aloof for whatever at that point in time. So I certainly had people like high

school teachers just tell me point blank regardless where they went to school

they didn't think I would fit in at UVA, felt I would be much more happy or fit

in better at [Virginia] Tech.

Carmen: Yeah, I would say that I think the rivalry now focuses almost purely on

sports. I don't think there's much to say otherwise to really--

Jeffrey: Not as much as there was. That's true. That's very true.

Carmen: Going 00:04:00back to Virginia Tech, what were your very first memories? What

did it look like? What did it smell like? Do you remember any of that vividly?

Jeffrey: Well, the biggest thing that I remember is by being sort of deciding to

come here at the last second sort of, I was a triple, a thor person in the dorm

room in Pritchard. But luckily, and that wasn't bad, but I mean it was tight for

three people and I guess the people that were in these triples, I guess those

rooms were designed for that because there was a little more elbow room than

there would be in just a regular two-person room. But I think I wasn't in that

more than-- I wouldn't say more than two or three weeks max and then a dorm room

opened I guess where somebody left in Vawter, so that's when I moved to Vawter.

And then for the rest of my tenure at [Virginia] Tech I became an RA and so

forth, so I stayed on campus in a dorm all four years. But I was always like in

Vawter or Barringer or MIles, all those smaller ones, and I just liked that 00:05:00 much

better than my first impression with Pritchard. It was just you went out your

door and I was on the end near where Dietrich is. You just opened the door and

at that point it was just one gigantic straight hallway. It looked like a mile

down there, and that just seemed so impersonal to me. I just loved Vawter

particularly because it's shaped like a Z, so the halls were just real short and

just by default it was just so much easier to meet people. Of course I was there

a lot longer, but it was just a lot easier to meet people there. So I thought

Pritchard was just very impersonal, because it was just so big and just one

straight hallway or whatever.

Carmen: The aesthetic or the homey appeal that others might have--

Jeffrey: Yeah, hmm.

Carmen: So were an RA; how do you think that impacted your experiences at

[Virginia] Tech, for better or for worse?

Jeffrey: Oh I think for better and I went to summer school a couple of years,

and one year I guess that would have been between my sophomore and 00:06:00junior year I

was I guess very much a predecessor to all this Hokie camp thing. Like there

eight of us I think that were like summer orientation assistants. We lived in

Main Eggleston, and what they did at that point in time is when people were

coming in, parents with people that were coming in, freshman students for that

fall, I'm sure they could stay in hotels too, but a lot of them stayed and

Eggleston is where they would stay. So like us, this was before our time, like I

guess a couple of us per floor or per wing or however that worked with eight

people, and what they did is they just had men and women all scattered about. It

was on the same floor, so like one community bathroom on one end was men and the

other women is sort of how they got around it, but at that point Main Eggleston

was all women during the regular year, so that was interesting. But anyway, a

long story 00:07:00short I enjoyed that a lot because you gave campus tours and you did

sessions with either the students or the parents, so I just had a good time

doing that. But a fellow that was in one of my classes knew that I was doing

that or whatever and he was like for the summer, I guess the head RA in

Barringer and somebody that there were at that point the summer session you had

two sessions in one summer, maybe they still do that, but anyway, one of the RAs

that was in Barringer something had come up at home so he wasn't going to stay

for the second session, so this guy just asked me if I would be willing to do it

because he felt the training would be similar. So I didn't have to go through an

of the interview process. I mean I did do an interview for the summer

orientation thing, but not as extensive I don't think even back then as the RA

stuff, so I just sort of backed my way into that. And then that fall there had

been somebody, I think it was an RA that got into some academic trouble in

Barringer and then they just asked 00:08:00me, even though I didn't have the official

training if I would step in like at Thanksgiving time whenever he left. So I did

that and I did that for the last half of my junior year and then my senior year.

But I enjoyed that a lot. I liked that because I'm sort of an introvert and that

just forced me to meet the people that were on my hall and so forth, so that

helped me just meet more people I think.

Carmen: Right, absolutely. You kind of fast tracked it.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Carmen: That wasn't something you maybe initially had thought about.

Jeffrey: I really hadn't planned, exactly.

Carmen: That's a great opportunity to meet people. It's so easy to just close

your door off and not associate with anyone.

Jeffrey: And not interact or whatever, exactly. But that way you sort of had to.

Carmen: Wonderful, that's great. I'm sure that did shape a bit of your

experience there. Did you meet anybody during those years that you became

friends with?

Jeffrey: Oh certainly. I always had coming from such a small high school. I

guess there was anybody in my high school graduation that came to Virginia Tech,

there were a couple of people that were like a year or two older than me that I

would run into. But people that I wasn't particularly buddies with high school

and so forth, 00:09:00so the thought of being roommates didn't even cross. So I always

had just done potluck and most were pretty good definitely. But then a couple, I

guess my best friends to this day are people that were my roommates back then, yeah.

Carmen: That's wonderful. I have heard there is a sense of comfort if you live

with someone who you already knew, but at the same time you don't really--

Jeffrey: Right, and as an RA, I saw so many people that would come with a high

school friend to be a roommate and six weeks later they would be switching

roommates. They liked them, but not 24/7.

Carmen: You never know how it's going to be actually live with a person no

matter how close you are to them, so yeah. Well apart from I guess the friends

that you accumulated while you were here were there any specific professors or

advisors you had within or outside of your departments that made an impact?

Jeffrey: I think one of my favorites was this gentleman in the College of

Business. John Barringer, who was also the mayor of Blacksburg, so I thought

that was a hoot, A small, sort of like you being a southwest Virginia 00:10:00 person,

sort of like I felt the experiences you would have had or I would have had gone

to a college like Emory & Henry. But of course Blacksburg is a small town now,

but even more so thirty years ago. But I thought was also so interesting because

he was always telling Blacksburg, and he felt out where everybody as from and he

just lamented when he found out that I was from Rural Retreat, which was a

railroad town that Blacksburg didn't have a railroad after Huckleberry pulled up

tracks. Of course now it's probably better to have that recreational trail than

it is to be on the railroad actually in reality. But he just thought Blacksburg

would be twice the size of the town it was if there had been a railroad

industrial-wise, that kind of thing where you could get products in and out and

that sort of thing. He was I think jealous of railroad towns.

Carmen: Right, yeah. I guess, I didn't really get that experience either growing

up in Floyd, but I do know what you mean about the southwest Virginia

environment. My older brother went to Emory & Henry and it was like college that

essentially looked like the town, whereas a lot of people from Floyd went 00:11:00 there.

Jeffrey: Right, right.

Carmen: So Virginia Tech was quite a different kind of--

Jeffrey: Right. And I know even at that point in time, I mean I thought it was

interesting about him, about this guy being the mayor, and I had him for a

couple of classes. But even then living on campus where I did there, mainly in

Barringer and Vawter too for that matter, there was, I remember I never had him

as a teacher, a blind professor in the Department of English. He lived like on

Draper Road or Preston Avenue, so every day you would see him come and go with

that thing that they do to take curves with that stick thing or cane or whatever

it is, that kind of thing. And then the guy that lived, the man that lived in a

house right at the corner, well it's right now on the opposite corner from where

the Baptist Student Union is. Is it the Mormon Church where they built a

colonial looking building on the opposite corner?

Carmen: I know the building you're speaking of.

Jeffrey: Religious, but anyway, there was a house there and the guy that was the

wrestling 00:12:00coach lived there. He taught Phys ed because I had him for golf and I

thought that was interesting. You knew where he lived. I lived right across from

here for three years or whatever, so I thought that was again sort of something

that would happen if you were at Emory & Henry or whatever. But I'm sure it

still happens at Virginia Tech now but not as much, but I always thought that

was sort of interesting to run into people like that or knew where they lived

based from where I lived.

Carmen: A little bit of the best of both worlds.

Jeffrey: Yeah, I think so.

Carmen: The small town feel, but the big diverse experience of Virginia Tech.

Jeffrey: Yeah. And I went one summer when I was in high school to a summer like

National Science Foundation thing at Emory & Henry and really enjoyed it, but it

was just like too small. I mean there was not much going on there in the summer,

but it was just I think it was too small when you came from a small town and

small high school.

Carmen: If you want a different kind of experience then it might not be, yeah.

So, here 00:13:00at Virginia tech what were some of, I'm sure there are some memories

that just will stay with you forever like good and bad, but what were some of

the best memories you ever had?

Jeffrey: Well I at that point in time, not that they were world beaters, but

basketball was much more popular or much more successful than the football team

was, and I can just remember how much fun I felt those were just to be able to

walk up to Cassell Coliseum and go in that setting, just be in so much

enthusiasm and so forth and so loud and so forth, I thought it was just such

great entertainment too. You just showed your ID in advance to get tickets or

whatever. I mean you were paying for it indirectly, but I thought that was just

good entertainment, so that I think is so interesting. Now of course I know that

the basketball team ebbs and flows like everything, but how it's hard to even

get students now to go, and there's even more that would be within walking

distance than when I was here. But I always just thought that was such good

entertainment and I really enjoyed that. I enjoyed the football games too, but I 00:14:00thought it was such a neat environment.

Carmen: Yeah. I guess sports are probably what bring a lot of people to

[Virginia] Tech , certainly probably more now, but I've gone to several of the

basketball games and I enjoy it. The seats are a little right angle, but your

kiss might be in the back of the head of the person in front of you, but it's

all part of the experience.

Jeffrey: Exactly, exactly. And the Cassell guy that died when I was like a

freshmen, he was a Rural Retreat person that it was named for, so I always

thought that was interesting too.

Carmen: Oh wow, yeah, I didn't know that. That's nice, a namesake. What about

the opposite side of that? Were there any periods of time or events that you

felt were particularly difficult to get through during your time at [Virginia] Tech?

Jeffrey: I think just the school part of it for me was stressful, because I was

not very good with time management. I was sort of a procrastinator and I can

remember plenty of times sitting in one of those 00:15:00little whatever they call them,

study lounges. I think there was a TV in there too in the rooms or whatever

where I would spend half the night typing a paper, that kind of thing, so I

remember stuff like that. And I can remember just, I guess you had some

flexibility when the exam schedule was set that you could move those

occasionally if there were several sections of the same class or whatever, but I

remember that was a lot of stress to prepare for five or four exams or whatever

you doing, especially if they ended up getting in a compressed period of time.

Carmen: Right, like mid-term.

Jeffrey: Exactly, yeah. LIke I said, I remember the most fun you had and the

comradery, but you forget about the work part.

Carmen: But that's the nice part though, right?

Jeffrey: Exactly, yeah.

Carmen: Do you have any memories of cold bitter walks across the Drillfield?

Jeffrey: Definitely. What I thought at the time and I still think that I thought

it was just so cold here, but I thought going back to my high school days and

you know if there were three inches of snow, school was canceled. 00:16:00And even when

it was cold weather, I lived right in the town of Rural Retreat with our house

next to the high school, so you were out five minutes to get there on a cold

day, versus crossing the Drillfield and so forth.

Carmen: It takes five minutes to cross the Drillfield.

Jeffrey: Yeah, thats right. So I definitely remember that. It was definitely

cold, and I think that first year for that winter of [19]76, [19]77 was

incredibly cold I thought. And I remember my sister was teaching at the time in

Wythe County and so was my mom still, that I think in January, maybe in February

they either missed every day or it was late every day, so it was just so

bitterly cold. It snowed a lot and then it just wouldn't go away because it was

so cold so the roads were so bad I think.

Carmen: And so much of southwest Virginia is backroads.

Jeffrey: Yeah, that they've got to compensate for. And again, maybe I had gotten

used to it after that, but that first winter I thought it was definitely 00:17:00 unbelievable.

Carmen: I think the wind gets in there and it's just a bowl and just knocks you

all over the place.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Carmen: Were there any major events that happened at [Virginia] Tech or in the

broader nation during the time you were at [Virginia] Tech that you remember

impacting your experience at all?

Jeffrey: I remember one thing something that was going on in current events when

I would have been a senior, so it was either the fall of [19]79 or it may have

been that whole thing when Iran first blew up when they took the hostages, like

at the end of Jimmy Carter's and they let him go the day Ronald Reagan was

inaugurated or whatever. But something, it may have just been when that-- I

forgot what even happened, if they overthrew the embassy or how they got the

hostages or whatever. I forgot the whole thing, but there was something that I

remember, the only thing I was concerned about being an RA is I think some group

was going to have a protest somewhere on the Drillfield or whatever and they

just didn't know if that was 00:18:00going to get out of hand. And like all the RAs had

instructions that if it did get out of hand I guess back then somebody, I don't

know who did that at two o'clock in the morning, they would lock the doors or

whatever, I guess even in the men's dorms or whatever they did. I can't remember

how that worked, but anyway, you could lock the main doors from the inside. That

was the instructions, if there was a mob of protestors coming locks the doors. I

don't want to be trying to stop a gang or whatever but I don't think anything

materialized, but I remember boy that would be a good day not to be an RA but

nothing happened.

Carmen: Right, yes.

Jeffrey: I'm not getting paid for this.

Carmen: That's right.

Jeffrey: It didn't make a big impression because nothing happened, I remember

that. I was thankful, but the only thing I can think about going back now maybe

something to do with 00:19:00that Iranian thing, but I can't remember what people would

have been protesting.

Carmen: I guess it was just heightened tension.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Carmen: I guess it's a great thing if the worst of your memories are just the

pressure before something didn't materialize, right.

Jeffrey: Right.

Carmen: That's something to be grateful for. So you were an RA kind of the

second half towards the end of your undergraduate.

Jeffrey: Hmm.

Carmen: I guess that was something that was different for the second half of

your experience than the first, but do you remember anything else, how it

changed from being a freshman on campus to growing up through the years, getting

used to [Virginia] Tech? Was there any specific change that you can recall?

Jeffrey: Oh I remember things people would share with you. At that point in time

I guess what they were doing, I knew it was, because when you were scheduling

your classes you sat with somebody and it was like something at a computer

terminal, but you didn't do it 00:20:00yourself, but there would be like if I went to

Pamplin being in the College of Business which is maybe where I was supposed to

go the lines would just be incredible about that. But then people would tell you

as you would just hear it through the grapevine, that like there were a couple

of those computer terminals at War Memorial Gym like in the lobby, but not in

the lobby so people didn't see them, just sort of like in a niche like this is

and there would be somebody there and there would rarely be a line, that kind of

thing. And then the big there too, if I came in the fall of [19]76 I think the

current University bookstore opened like a year before that, so it was by far

the nicest thing on campus when I was here. But the lines were just horrendous

when you bought your textbooks, so then people would tell you what time to go or

if you always went and whatever line it was that was closest to like Eggelston

that the building tucked in there so the line couldn't be as long. So you

learned all the little tricks of the things that were just the most frustrating,

most bureaucratic I guess.

Carmen: Hokies helping Hokies.

Jeffrey: 00:21:00Exactly, yeah.

Carmen: Passing around the crucial information.

Jeffrey: Exactly. I had sort of forgotten, or maybe you got a default schedule

sort of, but then if you wanted to change things around then you had to go see

this person that had some kind of computer thing that they were doing if there

was a seat in this class or something.

Carmen: Right, I guess now it's all online and it just crashes at midnight every

time there's a course request because every person at Virginia Tech is trying to

get a class. I don't know which was the better.

Jeffrey: And I guess the other thing you had to do back then, and I laugh about

it or people in my age bracket laugh about it, that everybody if you were in the

College of Business had to take a computer class called 4 Tram, like an early

language. Before you could just do a personal computer you didn't have to worry

about how it was working, but you had to know how the code or whatever was. And

I guess computer science majors may still do stuff like that, but nobody does I

don't guess. But that I think was one of the more difficult things 00:22:00and I had to

get a lot of help from other people where you literally typed on some machine

that made punch cards, and then the punch cards you fed into this machine that

was as big as this room or whatever. That was just such a bizarre thing. And you

could sort of tell at the time there's got to be some better way than this. This

is ridiculous. I mean who needs to know this and can't somebody come up with

something better than this? You would have one hundred cards to average like six

numbers or whatever and to do all that stuff, it was just crazy.

Carmen: Did that become outdated really quickly for you or did you ever use that?

Jeffrey: By the time I was graduate school here you had things that you had to

do that would have been like early versions of something like Excel, and that

was so new to everybody where you were trying to do mathematical things on stuff

like that.

Carmen: That actually brings me to a question about you deciding to continue

your education here at 00:23:00Virginia Tech. You said previously that you already had

the prerequisite so it was kind of a natural fit in that way, but was it always

just, did you always understand that's what you were going to do next or was

there ever a period of time where you were weighing what your options were?

Jeffrey: The thing I did and I know that's changed radically, but when I would

have been a senior at Virginia Tech the Career Services people just like they do

now I'm sure, companies come and interview on campus. And now even by the time I

was in graduate school you submitted your resume, and I guess the people, well

if they went it to the company or if the people in Career Services would screen

them and say, this is a more appropriate person. Here's our best twenty people,

to go talk to Newport New Ship Building or whatever. But back when I was a

senior and doing a lot of interviewing or doing a lot of stuff at Career

Services it was literally first come first serve. I remember going with friends

at six o'clock in the morning, 00:24:006:30 or something like that and just get there

when the doors open and you literally just signed up on these sheets. And it was

just first come first serve, so I had probably the best time at Virginia Tech

that spring quarter of my senior year, because I had never been on an airplane

and I went to Chicago, went to Minneapolis, went to Atlanta a couple of times,

went to DC a couple of times, and flew most places. They paid the whole tab just

by getting up at six o'clock in the morning and going to do that. You still had

to get through the first round when they came to [Virginia] Tech, but then from

there if you made that cut then it was to go to the home office, so I had a

blast doing that. I got two or three offers, but my older brother regretted that

he didn't stay and get a master's degree, because he thought it was just after

you get out and get established or whatever it's so hard to come back and be a

student. So he strongly encouraged me and a couple of professors did too. By the

fact that you've got all these prerequisites it probably makes sense just to

stay and just do that, so that's what I ended up 00:25:00doing. I think if there had

been some incredible job offer it would have been different maybe, but it was

things that were okay but didn't excite me greatly.

Carmen: So was finance or business did you always know prior to even going to

college that that's really what you wanted to do?

Jeffrey: Well I knew something in business I think is definitely what I wanted

to major in, and I guess like every program you're in as a freshman and maybe

even through sophomore year you would get to sample a little bit of everything,

so I knew I didn't want to do accounting. I just though finance was a little

more, I don't know if scientific is the word or whatever, just a little bit more

quantitative obviously than something like marketing would be or whatever. There

were just so many things you could go into so that's what you ended up doing.

Carmen: That makes sense. You get a taste test that first year at least all the

prerequisites you have to take anyway to be 00:26:00a college--

Jeffrey: Just to pick your major almost, or at least in business.

Carmen: I remember taking a couple of science and math classes that didn't fit

my fancy since I'm so history and writing and all that. You went and got your

bachelor's degree and your graduate degree. From that moment on how did your

education here impact your life in terms of getting a job or anything since then?

Jeffrey: Well, the very first job I got out of college was with the Maryland

Public Service Commission. In Virginia it's the same thing as a state

corporation, the people that regulate all the utilities. And that I think was a

prerequisite you had to have a master's degree before they would even look at

you or whatever, so that's what I got out of college. And I didn't really care

for that and then after maybe two-and-a-half years I went to work for Citicorp

in Baltimore, and that was sort of the same way too, that their prerequisite you

had to have a master's degree before they 00:27:00would even look at you. So I was them

maybe like six years and then it was like I've been through lots of recessions

like everybody has, but there was at that point a real serious recession.

Citicorp had their fingers in so many different things and I was in sort of a

non-banking subsidiary, more credit cards and consulting business, that kind of

stuff, so they cut way back. So the whole division I was in just got eliminated

is what they did, but they were very generous with severance package and all

that kind of stuff, so did lots of informational interviewing and so forth. But

one thing that had really peaked my interest at Virginia Tech is as I guess more

of an undergrad I think, may have taken a graduate class too, but I took a

couple of urban planning classes that I really liked, and I really toyed with

the idea of getting a master's in urban planning, but everybody told me that an

MBA certainly was more marketable, which certainly proved to be the case when I

got 00:28:00out. But after I moved to Baltimore, long story short, I had seen in the

paper that Johns Hopkins which is based in Baltimore, they had a full line of

evening graduate courses in addition to if you were full-time then you could do

a lot of stuff part-time, and they had an urban planning program. So Citicorp

was so generous with benefits they were paying my tuition to get a master's

degree in urban planning so I almost had completed that, so I was just trying to

sort of combine the business and so forth. So I ended up working for like a

regional Chamber of Commerce that did a lot of economic developmental stuff. And

then from there sort of morphed into site selection for different retailers and

so forth, so it's still business related, but certainly by taking a couple of

those urban planning classes here that sort of wetted my appetite. I thought I

would sort of like to get into that sort of too, so it was a good introduction

or whatever.

Carmen: Right, that's wonderful. Got the ball rolling.

Jeffrey: Certainly opened up these other avenues or whatever. And I think I

could have 00:29:00made that transition probably career-wise without that degree in

urban planning, but it just made it a lot easier to introduce yourself to

somebody. Like instead of just having an interest I backed it up and got this

degree which I think helped open doors.

Carmen: Absolutely. How do you feel that your graduate experience there compared

to one at Virginia Tech, or are they even comparable?

Jeffrey: I don't think they're comparable. Again, I did have--I mean I didn't

have a bad experience in that MBA program at Virginia Tech, but it was just

different. By that time I lived off campus and you saw people in classes but you

didn't see them all the time like you did when you lived on campus and ate on

campus and that kind of stuff. And even more of an extreme when I was doing this

part-time even stuff working full-time, and you would show up and you would be

pooped already from working all day, and then you would sit in the class for two

or three hours at night. People were very cordial there, and so we had group

projects, but it was nothing like a full-time experience at all, nothing like that.

Carmen: That makes 00:30:00sense. You said eating on campus and it made me want to ask

how was the food?

Jeffrey: It was nothing like it is today evidently, not all these choices, no

Chick-Fil-A and all these places that win awards. I'm still sort of a picky

eater, but boy growing up I was incredibly picky, so that's one thing that

really did concern me. I don't know if there's much I can eat, but I thought it

was fine. The only thing I remember complaining about, and I think everybody did

that, of course in the dorms they would always post the menu for the week or

maybe two weeks at a time or something like that, and when you were looking

maybe at the two-week period, must have had two weeks up there, that by the time

you were in your second week they were repeating stuff. But I mean if you ate at

home you repeated stuff, but you got tired of that thing, but I thought overall

I thought the quality was fine. 00:31:00Nothing spectacular, but I thought it was very

passable. I didn't think it was bad, but again, that's coming from a very picky

eater. I found I did fine eating-wise. I thought it was good. There was always

whatever it is, a couple or two or three entrees to choose from and so forth, so

it was always something. And I would just eat not much of anything for breakfast

or whatever, so it was just lunch and dinner and I always thought it was fine.

Carmen: Was Dietrick the main or only dining hall?

Jeffrey: Where I lived I would go to Dietrich some, and that's one thing too,

living that first three weeks in Pritchard. Of course we were within a stone's

throw of Dietrich and I thought it was so impersonal it was so big or whatever,

even though it had those separate rooms. So then I by moving down to that lower

quad we always ate in Owens and that was so much more personal. And again, the

rooms weren't small but they had four different dining rooms. My crowd, the

people I hung out with we normally always ate in the same room, so you saw all

those same 00:32:00people. I liked that atmosphere much much better than I did Dietrich.

I've been in Owens one time since and it's like food courts and that Hokie Grill

or whatever it is now and so forth. But at that point it was just the four rooms

with different color schemes, but you went through a line just like you did

Dietrich and so forth, and bussed your own tray and all that stuff.

Carmen: That remains similar, a more communal experience there.

Jeffrey: Yeah, even though those rooms were pretty big those four rooms thinking

about it now, if you ent through the line then in the middle of it is where the

drinks and so forth were and that was sort of enclosed, so that broke it into

two sides. It was a much smaller scale. I liked it all better on a smaller

scale. I thought about how Owens was laid 00:33:00out, but that's one of the reasons I

liked it, I know.

Carmen: Maybe those were the roots of the multiple dining centers we have now. I

would say we are probably fairly spoiled I would say.

Jeffrey: The thing that they would do that I always thought was a hoot was like

once a quarter, they had to be on the menu and you knew that was coming, but

they would have like you would come in for dinner, and I think they were paper

or plastic tablecloths and candles and it was like steak and shrimp night. That

was I think at least once a-- Maybe like a week or two before exams would be, so

you knew it was coming when you got your steak and shrimp, but that was always funny.

Carmen: Did they have holiday dinners or did the steak and shrimp sort of serve as--?

Jeffrey: I think that was what you had.

Carmen: Sounds pretty nice.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Carmen: Steak and shrimp, I'll take it. This is 00:34:00always an interesting question,

people have tons of different answers, but if someone simply says the words,

Virginia Tech, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

Jeffrey: I guess all my collective experience comes to mind, but i see it like a

work environment it always or has been for the last twenty years is football is

what people are talking about, so I think it's more athletic. And then

unfortunately April if [20]07, that's what people would say first.

Carmen: How do you think, the community aspect, maybe the appeal of [Virginia]

Tech is just the sense of community despite being so huge, how do you think that event--?

Jeffrey: I just thought and it's horrible to say that but it 00:35:00still seems hard

for me to believe that even happened. I can't imagine how I would have reacted

if I had been here, much less been in one of the rooms. I can't imagine, can't

even think about it. Today the other thing I thought about too, I followed the

rules and went to the Visitor Center and got my parking permit and they were

trying to give me all these directions you can here and you can't park, so it

wasn't as comprehensive as I thought. So long story short again, I parked in

that lot on College Avenue across from Squires because I wanted to go in there

for a minute, and I ended up parking there again when I was going to go get

something to eat lunch. What opened up was one of the spaces with a meter, so I

ran in to see if I could get some change for the meter which is what I did. And

of course when I went in there I thought that's where that girl got beheaded,

and I thought my gosh. But there were you know ten people in there eating that

probably don't even know that story so that's good. That's good that it didn't

get walled off or 00:36:00whatever; it's still there or whatever. But the thing that I

thought at that time when that happened and living in the Baltimore, DC area

there's so many alumni, but there's also so many current students from that area

that go here. I mean all the local channels were just wall to wall about the

whole thing too, and the service they had that I thought was so good and so

forth. But the thing that blew me away that I was so impressed with that I know

a lot of people said, is just when you would have these media people coming in

just how articulate the students were, and how composed and I was just very

impressed about how well-- Again, I thought if I was nineteen or twenty years

old and that would have happened I don't think I would even feel like talking to

anybody, much less some national press person or whatever. But I just couldn't

believe how composed and how professional they were. And then I had other people

that told me, that I thought was very nice, that especially the Today's show and

all those people would be set up on the lawn of this building sort of looking

back at the campus about 00:37:00how beautiful. People that had never been there before

couldn't believe just how green everything was, and just had no idea what the

architecture was and so forth. They said, well I guess it's a bad time to say

this, but I need to go there and look at it, couldn't believe how pretty it was,

or how impressive it was.

Carmen: That's a sweet compliment. Yeah, I guess being in Southwest Virginia,

Virginia Tech is one of the biggest institutions here, but I guess you don't

really come across Virginia Tech unless either you go here or you watch football

or you grew up around the area.

Jeffrey: Right, right.

Carmen: It's kind of in the middle of the Southwest Virginia area.

Jeffrey: Yeah, ten miles off 81. I've had plenty of people work with [Wausau]

where you're going to all those football games, but we just kept going, we

didn't pull off.

Carmen: Other than coming back for a reunion, 00:38:00do you routinely come back for reunions?

Jeffrey: Not that much. I have season football tickets, so I don't go to all of

them but certainly come a lot for those. And I've still got relatives that live

sort of in the area, so I come back a lot just to go to the bookstore or just to

look around. I think it's always fascinating to see all the new construction and everything.

Carmen: Something changes every year.

Jeffrey: And the town too. I tell people all the time, if you could do time

travel back when I was in the late [19]70s you could have done time travel and

be in that north end like where Buffalo Wild Wings are with that big looming

parking garage, I mean you wouldn't even know where you were. Sort of the same

thing that happened ten years after I was here, the dorms that got built there

on Pritchard Prairie in front of Lee. That was the old football field is what

that was, just that big open space with gravel paths and so forth, so you 00:39:00 can't

even imagine where you are; it's just so different.

Carmen: It's changed so much in the North End building is where that community

New Town used to be with all those houses.

Jeffrey: Yeah, hmm.

Carmen: I guess students for the most part who come now have no idea houses ever

existed there.

Jeffrey: Even existed there, yeah.

Carmen: There was a community there. It is wild how greatly it expands and I

know there's been talk of trying to get the population at Virginia Tech to just

exponentially increase in the next couple of years.

Jeffrey: Right.

Carmen: Which is wonderful, but it's almost like where does everybody go?

Jeffrey: Exactly. That's true.

Carmen: I guess that sort of answers my question about the ways in which you are

still involved with Virginia Tech. So you come back for football games.

Jeffrey: Hmm. And then early on, when I first moved to Baltimore, I don't know

if they reached out to me. I guess I sent [Virginia] Tech my new address or

whatever and I immediately got a letter back from the Alumni Association about

here's your point of contact for the Baltimore Chapter of the [Virginia] Tech 00:40:00Alumni stuff. So I started going to those things and that to this day, I guess

by far my best handful of friends in the Baltimore area are people I met through

that group. And then they were always after people that were young graduates to

that point, so I did my tour of duty and was like president of that group for a

couple of years like in the mid [19]80s or whatever. So still certainly go to a

lot of their events but not as many as I once did, but it was just a good way to

meet people. We had that common bond in a big city where it was hard again like

living in Pritchard Hall, but multiplied one hundred times. It's just hard, and

I'm not very outgoing, so that was just a good way for me to meet people.

Carmen: That raises a really good question. The fact that Virginia Tech does

have these groups of alumni in pockets throughout the nation and so many alumni

do come back and get involved, at least go to football games, why do you think

that is? There was a 00:41:00survey, I don't know if you happened to see it, it was a

Gallup survey and suggested the majority of schools down here they have school

pride. They come back, and there's a handful of schools that are really kind of

into their school pride and they will come back throughout the years, they're

really engaged alumni. And then single school Virginia Tech is just beyond the

rest and I wonder why do you think that might be? What is it about Virginia Tech

that has people so involved for lifetimes?

Jeffrey: That's a good question. I think what made it resonate was April of

[20]07. I think not to let that define the university or the student body necessarily.

Carmen: So you think the increase in alumni activity or just the solidification

of that time maybe happened as a result of?

Jeffrey: I think that probably had a lot to do with it, and then I think

everybody loves a winner. When football was doing 00:42:00great, which we all got sort

of spoiled by that, I think then it was something that could be, and again, like

when I was a student I mean basketball seemed to me more popular than football

was and more successful I'm sure at that era too. But it was just like if you

went to a football game, sort of like it is now, if they win that's great, but

you sort of expect to lose almost in a way, but that was just sort of the

attitude. So then to get to the point where you were winning and then having

always played just the state schools and obscure other people then to get to

that big East and play real people, and then getting to the ACC which was

everybody's dream it was just like this is pretty-- It doesn't get any better

than this. I mean we didn't think that would ever even happen.

Carmen: Just hold on to the hope that the heyday will return, right?

Jeffrey: Exactly, yeah.

Carmen: I haven't asked this question before, but I wonder, I'll extend that

question to you, if you think the location of Virginia Tech has anything-- Like

where it is in the nation or in Virginia has anything to do with 00:43:00this urge to

come back. You may think it does or doesn't.

Jeffrey: I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. It's gotten so

built up and so forth too, but it's certainly a lot less congested than Northern

Virginia or whatever, so that might be part of it, just to get back to something

a little bit slower paced. But I think everybody just has their own memories and

I think it's just interesting to see what's here from my era, but then what else

is new. Like today at lunch I thought well where am I going to go to eat lunch?

I thought well let me just walk around a little bit. The big hangout when I was

a student was at Greek Cellar. Once or twice in my life I've eaten in the thing,

it used to be just Greek's Restaurant upstairs, but now it's the Cellar

Restaurant or something that's on the street level that's got that big patio.

Carmen: Yes.

Jeffrey: If I was walking around like at 12:30 I was just myself, I didn't want

to eat on that patio, so I just walked in and the whole place was filled. There

wasn't a place to sit. The bar was full and then the patio there was not a seat

there at all. And then I 00:44:00thought I will go to Chipotle, I know that's good and

it was half full. But I mean that local thing was jam-packed, which is great.

That's great.

Carmen: Yeah. Do you feel like a bunch of the restaurants that are on that main

strip are the same restaurants that were there when you were here?

Jeffrey: No, I would say that Greek's thing would be one of the few. I mean a

lot of the things, I can't forget what was--well where that Sharkey's is, that

was like a men's store and stuff. It was Arnold's or something in later years,

but I don't think there's that many survivors. Like when I was a student,

probably about the time I was like a senior is when Macadu's first opened where

Kroger is now, and then they built twenty or twenty-five years ago where they

are now, but that was certainly a survivor. But I don't think there's that many

things. The thing I thought was so interesting is it looked like Burger King is

closed. That was so big that 00:45:00when I was a student, even as a freshman because

that McDonald's and Burger King were there if you wanted anything late at night

you walked up to McDonald's or Burger King.

Carmen: I guess McDonald's will have to hold up the fort now.

Jeffrey: And then that Burger King is the one that had the light fixtures that

were made out of Virginia Tech helmets, and that was before there were all these

t-shirt shops and that kind of stuff. The University bookstore had stuff, but

there weren't all these independent places selling all the paraphernalia and so

forth, so that was like wow, look at those lights.

Carmen: Wow, I imagine that was quite an invention to actually see.

Jeffrey: The chandelier with the helmets with the light fixtures or whatever,

the individual lights.

Carmen: Very creative. I may never get to see that. Maybe the bookstores will

grab the idea and run with them.

Jeffrey: That's true.

Carmen: Just the changes you've seen since the time you've been here 00:46:00to now.

We've talked about the architecture, just like buildings that have come,

restaurants coming in and out. What about in terms of the actual school itself,

do you feel like its vision has changed over all these years or developed into

anything new or different?

Jeffrey: Oh I think certainly they have branched out a whole lot. I think just

physically things look so much better, because when I was here all that stuff

that's across or beyond AJ, all those buildings that have popped up there,

across from Litton Reeves, all that stuff. That was just like parking lots. I'm

sure at that point they knew they were temporary parking lots, but just gravel

with big ruts in them. What they had is like telephone poles for curves just

laying down painted yellow, so you can imagine what that looked like. It looked

bad. As a student oh that's pretty sad looking. But just to see now overall how

well things 00:47:00are landscaped, and even though I was never a big fan of that huge

lot behind Derring it looked so much better being sort of camouflaged with trees

and then to put a big parking deck there. Even when I was here it looked, even

though I bet there was what, 17,000-18,000 students and I think it looked almost

more congested then than it does now because of all just the haphazard parking

lots and all that stuff. It just looked bad I thought, looked bad.

Carmen: So maybe the layout now is just--

Jeffrey: It's just much better and they've come to realize, I mean I guess

they're getting rid of a lot of surface parking lots, but at least make the ones

they had look so much better than they did. And the town looks so much better

with all the brick sidewalks, all the stuff they've done upward to Chipotles.

That was just bad looking up that way I thought, just pretty not run down, but

just sort of dilapidated or whatever. It just looks much much better.

Carmen: Maybe with increased people coming in all the time, always increasing.

Jeffrey: Yeah. And I think probably just to have that corporate research center

too with so many young professionals and so 00:48:00forth that it would demand maybe a

little bit better service and shopping options and that kind of stuff than

students normally would. I still think it's interesting that there's a Joseph

Bank and Talbots in Blacksburg.

Carmen: Yeah, if those are the changes that have already occurred, are there any

changes you would like to see occur over time?

Jeffrey: I don't know. I think again, I think things look so much better I think

there's still a few things that you know, stand out now like sore thumbs. Where

my season tickets are at Lane Stadium forever have been over on the east side,

the taller side they've done improvements, and this year I think they've done

more than they ever had on that lower concourse. The thing that has always

bothered me about that is after when I was here is when they put on that big 00:49:00addition to make it so high where they added 15 or 20,000 seats. So by doing

that that lower level concourse like doubled in depth or whatever, but they've

always just had so much junk and all the backstage stuff like where all the big

crates where the soft drinks come in and stuff like that. And I go to a lot of

away football games and a lot of the bowl games, and I've just never seen--you

just don't see that. So they've either got it behind like privacy fence patio

type things where you don't see it, or they just cart it off or something. What

gets me is that concourse could be so nice if it was completely opened up and

like scooped a lot of the concession stands out to the perimeter, that kind of

thing. And like on that side where there's that little bookstore when you come

in, if they could -- and again, I'm not looking at what's above it, but to

expand that and have like glass windows in that concourse. Just like if you go

to modern stadiums like where the Orioles play it 00:50:00used to be so claustrophobic,

and if you go to the new one and it's just that width. And they utilize it so

well by scattering all the stuff out and so forth, I just think that's got such

potential. Of course I know it's six games a year, but that's still like a

bugaboo, but I think boy, if that's my only complaint that's not much of a complaint.

Carmen: Maybe we're doing pretty well then.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Carmen: You know if there was hope for the parking lots maybe there's hope.

Jeffrey: There's hope for that concourse too, yes.

Carmen: What would you like people to know about you that maybe we haven't

covered already? That could be directly related to Virginia Tech or just in

general. What would you like people to know about you?

Jeffrey: Well I don't know. I guess I would be even though I'm not living an 00:51:00example because I don't do as much with my local alumni group that I ever did, I

would recommend anybody doing that first out of college going to some

metropolitan area just as a good way to meet people. And I met so many people at

that point in time when I was like twenty-five years old that would be my age

now, and I think all the time when I go to these things I don't think I'm near

as welcoming to these people that are twenty-five years old that when the roles

were reversed thirty years ago and I was the twenty-five year old or whatever.

I'm just not. I need to really work on that because again, I have been-- I

created some nice friendships with people that were my age that were just recent

graduates, but also people that would have been my parents' age and that kind of

thing. Which I thought that was very interesting to do stuff like that, so I

would certainly recommend that. And I've come back two or three times when I've

been like downsized business-wise or 00:52:00whatever and brainstormed with people like

in the College of Business and a little bit with Career Services and that's kind

of stuff. That's a good resource that people don't always think about too that's

out there. That would just be two words of advice potentially, just to take

advantage of it.

Carmen: That's always helpful. How do you feel that the school's motto ut prosim

has played out in your life? How do you feel like that impacts the school or

maybe your experience? Speaking of alumni groups that really make an effort to

reach out. That kind of seems like that would tie into that.

Jeffrey: I think they certainly do that more now than when I was president and

so forth. I think that's become much more prominent to do those things where

they like adopt a highway for the clean-up and that kind of stuff, they do

things like that. I know when I was involved 00:53:00things we did which were sort of

like that, where you go and they have community groups that do that where you

answer the phone during like the public TV or fundraiser type things. We did

things like that, but we certainly weren't cleaning up the side of the roads or

whatever, which I think they are doing now. But that seems to be such a big

thing here. Now I think the newer generation of graduates are more into that

kind of thing, and I think I need to do more. I certainly do a little bit of

stuff and I'm trying to do more of that to help like at a foodbank. It's where

they actually do a meal for homeless people, like a soup kitchen type thing. So

that's sort of an eye-opener, but I think that doesn't hurt me. So many things

have certainly broken my way my whole life that I need to do some things like

that which are sort of outside my comfort zone if you will.

Carmen: Do you think [Virginia] Tech and its influence in those alumni groups

are what have made you feel that way that you would like to get into those 00:54:00 things?

Jeffrey: I think so, but I just think overall when you talk to people I think a

lot of people just do volunteer things for groups like that. When I think they

can always use it and seem to be so appreciative the few times I've done it, but

they're just delighted that somebody shows up when it's not between Thanksgiving

and Christmas when everybody thinks about it. To do it in July when there's no volunteers.

Carmen: Absolutely. It's a wonderful thing to get involved in. I think the words

of advice you gave a few minutes ago, the helpful words of advice that's great.

Is there any advice you have in terms of things that have occurred at [Virginia]

Tech that you believe will be helpful to talk about? We spoke about April 16th

and the aftermath there a little bit, but I don't know if there is anything else

about [Virginia] Tech or about history that you think is helpful for continuing

generations of Hokies to talk about or focus on.

Jeffrey: I don't know. I just don't 00:55:00know if I can think of anything like that or

not. I don't know. That's a good question.

Carmen: That's okay. I'm sure honestly you've probably answered that in various

ways through all the questions I've asked you so that's no problem at all. At

this point I would like to open it up to you if there is anything at all you

want to talk about or random memory you have, the craziest thing that ever

happened at Tech maybe during your time here. Anything like that that you would

like to speak about.

Jeffrey: Well something that you said just within the last I bet ten years I had

the craziest dream that one of these friends of mine that was a roommate that's

a veterinarian now in the Baltimore area, I had a dream that he came into play

is what was so funny. But I had a dream and I don't know what on earth would

have triggered that, that I was working where I was working and own a house and

all that kind of good stuff, that I got a call from somebody, I'm dreaming all

this, I got this call from somebody in the Housing 00:56:00Office that they were

checking their records and they knew that I had been a resident advisor at

Virginia Tech. And for some reason they had a big shortage of, maybe this is in

August or something when school is getting ready to start, they had a big

shortage of head RAs and they wanted to know if there was any way I would come

back for a year. Being I was like forty-five years old probably at the time, if

I would come back for a year and be the head RA. And then, I'm still in this

dream and I'm debating you know well should I do that? It was almost like a

guilt trip. You should really come back and so this because we've really got

this shortage of head RAs. So a forty-five year old is going to really fit in

well and identify with eighteen year olds and I would really enjoy I'm sure too.

Anyway, so I called this friend of mine in the dream about I was on the fence

about, should I do this or not? What my friend told me, and it may not be the

case anymore, but when I was an RA the fellows or women too that were the head 00:57:00RAs they had a private room, and in those ones like I was in Vaughter and

Berringer they were designed may have been when it was going to be a house

mother or something when those things were new, but the room that the head RA

had had a private bathroom. So that's what this friend of mine Perry told me in

the dreams, well you know if you've got a private room and you have a private

bathroom I think you should do it. So then that's about the time I woke up and I

was in a cold sweat. At first I thought I had done it. I said I'm going to quit

my job to become a head RA and what am I going to do with this townhouse? Then I

thought well that is the craziest thing that I have ever dreamed. What did I see

on TV or what did I eat that generated that dream?

Carmen: Yeah.

Jeffrey: I thought wow, that was one for the record books.

Carmen: Those RA years are still impacting you way down the line.

Jeffrey: I guess so. More so than I thought.

Carmen: I guess you can call it relief then when you woke up and found out that.

Jeffrey: Very relieved that I hadn't said yes to that 00:58:00 proposal.

Carmen: Maybe that's the connecting thing for all alumni. Maybe we all have

crazy dreams that remind us of those moments at [Virginia] Tech that bring us back.

Jeffrey: Right.

Carmen: Oh wow. Well that's wonderful. I'm glad for you that that was not the reality.

Jeffrey: That it was a dream, yes. And I'm sure they would have welcomed back a

forty-five year old to be a head RA. That would have gone over real big I'm sure.

Carmen: We love our alumni in whatever role they want to take on. That was

wonderful. Is there anything else, or anything you thought I would ask you that

I didn't?

Jeffrey: Well one thing, it sounds like all I have is pet peeves, but one thing

that bothered me and I've sort of gotten over it at this point, but I read a lot

of the stuff that I get from Virginia Tech, the Alumni Magazine and I get a lot

of college--but I certainly don't read everything. So I saw a couple of years

ago, I usually look once or twice a week if not more 00:59:00online at the Roanoke

Times. Being from Southwest Virginia it always has lots of [Virginia] Tech news

in it too; of course that's what I do. And I saw a little news release, it

wasn't even like an article, where they were, it's been in the last couple of

years, they were going to suspend the MBA program, the full-time on campus

program and just concentrate completely on their executive MBA, which is

part-time. It was going to be offered in Roanoke and in Richmond and in Northern

Virginia is what they were going to do, but no more like the thing I did where

it was a full-time program now. And my thought was, and I've asked a couple of

people and have gotten a little feedback but not much, that I thought again when

you see the way this campus has exploded and the building thing and so forth,

and it seems like they are doing all these interdisciplinary things, like before

they had the medical school the thing with Wake Forest and all this kind of good

stuff. I thought of all the things, all the tentacles going in all 01:00:00directions I

would love to know how many full-time graduate programs at Virginia Tech have

been suspended or eliminated. I bet there's very few. I think what they're

saying is that this executive MBA thing is much higher regarded, much higher

rated than the full-time ever was. But then my question was I wonder about not

talking about, I mean I knew that the MBA program of Virginia Tech was never on

par with the Darden one at UVA, but you know James Madison would have one,

Radford would have a full-time MBA program, that kind of thing. And not that I

guess the MBA programs there's just too many of them and maybe that's one way,

but I thought that was so interesting that they-- The word was 'suspend'. They

didn't cancel it so they could always bring it back, but I thought I would just

love to know how many graduate or undergraduate programs had been suspended. I

don't get the impression that 01:01:00Virginia Tech is doing that much. That was so

interesting that they would do that one. And even my experience, I think some of

the faculty and I may be completely off base here, were just exclusively

teaching like in an MBA program, but a lot of them were people that I had

undergrad, so it's not like there was a separate-- Maybe that's the problem.

Maybe you've got to have a separate faculty to get higher peer rankings. I

thought that was unusual. And again, if had read my Pamplin thing when I should

have it wouldn't have hit me by seeing a two-line thing in the Roanoke that that

thing had been suspended or whatever. I think that's interesting. As big as the

budget is and all this stuff that that would be the one thing you'd suspend.

Carmen: Yeah, that is interesting. I'm not even sure I had heard about the

controversy about that.

Jeffrey: Well that news is controversy to me [laughs].

Carmen: I'm sure there are probably individuals who went through the same

program you who are also shocked about it.

Jeffrey: Somebody I was talking to, probably somebody that was in the college

but more of an administrator, said, well if you didn't bring it up in the

interview nobody else is 01:02:00going to know that, that the program you went to didn't

exist, it just morphed into this executive MBA thing. Nobody would ever know it.

That's a good point too. I thought that was interesting. Maybe there's more

things that I'm aware of. I know there is all this how like the College of

Agriculture has morphed into all different directions, so I bet when they do

that they get rid of things or whatever, but I am just aware that that happened.

Carmen: Maybe it's not being frequently talked about by students on campus so

maybe that's why I don't hear about it as much.

Jeffrey: I think part of it was also the impression I got is that to get

somebody, especially if you were thirty years old to quit your job and come back

to an MBA thing, that one, the [Virginia] Tech full-time one wasn't as highly

regarded to do that. And then I think they were thinking too that maybe if

somebody was already married there would be fewer opportunities for a spouse to

come to a small 01:03:00town. I would love to see a survey of all the land grant schools

and does Purdue does have a full-time MBA program in a small town, an hour from

Indianapolis. Of course that's different from being an hour from Indianapolis

and being thirty minutes from Roanoke too. I thought that was interesting too.

Does Iowa State have a full-time MBA program or whatever? There's a lot of

college towns that are smaller than Blacksburg I think. Does Clemson have one?

Carmen: Asking to see that data, I guess.

Jeffrey: Yeah. I'm sure they did their due diligence, but I thought it was

interesting. I have a lot of questions.

Carmen: For you to see it so you could at least look and maybe draw some comfort

from knowing it was across the board.

Jeffrey: That Virginia Tech was the last one, Clemson got rid of theirs ten

years ago and Iowa State got rid of theirs twenty years ago or they never had

them period.

Carmen: Maybe you can coerce someone to send you that information and it will

ease your mind.

Jeffrey: 01:04:00But I've sort of gotten over it. I didn't bother me at the time, but I

thought I had more questions than being upset about it. Boy, I've got ten

questions I would like answered about that, and it may be in one of those things

I didn't read.

Carmen: That's a lot of stuff to read.

Jeffrey: There is.

Carmen: I'm sure it was just the initial shock factor. It was something you had--

Jeffrey: I hadn't heard. It hadn't crossed my mind.

Carmen: I guess that's also the expanding process, as much changes that has

built up other things probably.

Jeffrey: Just emphasize, everybody has got limited budgets, so they are just

emphasizing what their strengths are.

Carmen: Maybe so, but I guess you will always be able to say you went through

it. It served you and you have used that in some form for the rest of your life.

Jeffrey: Sure, sure.

Carmen: At least there's that. Well if there isn't anything else thank you so

much for sitting down with me. I love hearing all the 01:05:00diverse experiences.

Jeffrey: I bet, I'm sure you hear lots of different stories that's for you.

Carmen: But it's all good. I like to compare and see how my story has matched or

differed from those I'm interviewing. Thank you again so much and we appreciate

it so much.

Jeffrey: I enjoyed it, no problem.

[End of interview]