VT Stories Oral History with Frank Nolen, May 17, 2016 (Ms2016-015)

Claire Gogan: This is Claire Gogan and I am interviewing Frank Nolen on the

campus of Virginia Tech and it is May 17th, 2016. What is your date and place of birth?

Frank Nolen: Well, I was born on December the 26th, 1939 in the Cartouche J

community of Macon County, North Carolina.

Claire: What years did you go to Virginia Tech?

Frank: From 1961 to 1965.

Claire: Can you tell me a little bit about where you were raised and your family

and friends?

Frank: Well, I was raised in the mountains of Western North Carolina. My father

was an electrician. My mother was a schoolteacher. I was the middle of five

children with a brother and sister older and a brother and a sister younger. 00:01:00 I

went to public schools. I started school at the age of five because it was right

after World War II, there was a shortage of teachers and they wanted my mother

to teach, and she said it was almost impossible for her to do because she had

this boy wasn't very well behaved and nobody would keep him. And they said, well

just bring the little rascal on to school with you. So I started school at five,

and when I got to the second grade my mother was the only second grade teacher,

so I had to have her as a teacher and that's my worst school year ever.

Claire: Really? [Laughs] She could keep tabs on you all the time?

Frank: 00:02:00Yes. She made it rough on me, but I went on through school and graduated

from high school. Had to ride seven miles one way to get to the high school.

When I first started to elementary school I lived less than a mile away so I had

to walk back and forth to that school, couldn't ride the bus. Rode the bus to

high school and graduated when I was seventeen years old.

Claire: When did you first think about college?

Frank: Well, I thought about college through high school of course. I had a very

good vocational agricultural teacher that was encouraging the ones they thought

capable to go to college. So I applied and was accepted at North Carolina State 00:03:00College at the time, State University now. And I went one semester, but I was

not prepared for that and it eight hours from home. I just could not comprehend

the chemistry. I did not have any chemistry in high school and that first

semester of college chemistry was more than I could handle, so I was afraid I

wasn't going to make it and so I transferred to a two-year technical institute

in Gastonia, North Carolina called the Gaston Technical Institute. Well, I had

physics and so forth there. I don't remember if any chemistry, but I excelled

there and did very well. I graduated 00:04:00from there on an off semester because I had

already spent one semester at NC State and I had to do four semesters to

graduate. So I graduated in January of 1960 and an instructor there had been

reading a magazine and saw an article about General Electric opening a numerical

controls factory in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, and he suggested I should

contact them. He thought that would be good employment, so I did and I got

invited to an interview there. My first ever in Virginia I came for the

interview and was interviewed and was offered the job. 00:05:00So I worked there for a

little over a year. My boss at the time said that he felt I should get my

engineering degree, and so I decided to make another attempt at it. He said

General Electric had an educational loan program and I could borrow the money to

pay for my education at 3 percent interest the first loan was. And so I did that

and came to Virginia Tech and concentrated on the chemistry. I didn't ace it,

but got through the chemistry and I would say the rest is history and I

graduated in 1965.

Claire: I guess that's how you chose Virginia Tech, it was kind of selected.

Frank: Well, yes. I was working 00:06:00at General Electric in Waynesboro, and a good

friend of mine also a technician was working there. And so when I decided I was

going back I wanted to do in-state, so I applied at UVA and Virginia Tech. He

only applied at Virginia Tech. We both got accepted, but conditional acceptance

that we had to provide, we were a little older, we had to provide our own

housing. So I came on early and he applied here, he got accepted, so I decided

well we'll just go together to [Virginia] Tech. I forgot about UVA at that point. And so I

came down as soon as we were 00:07:00accepted to start looking for somewhere to live,

and I spent the day and finally found a store, a country store, nowadays they

called it a convenience store where they sold some feed and a little bit of

everything, on Price's Fork Road, and they had some rooms upstairs. It was a

two-story building that they wanted to rent to students. I went and looked at

the rooms and agreed that we would be roommates and we would take a room, so

that's the way I ended up here at [Virginia] Tech.

Claire: What is your first memory of Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, I guess coming here and looking 00:08:00for a room and driving around the Drillfield, but I just wanted an education and I didn't have much choice, so I

didn't research the value of Virginia Tech's degrees or their professors or

anything. It was just about the only choice I had under the circumstances, so I

decided to give it a try.

Claire: What did you think about what the campus looked like and what it felt like?

Frank: Well, I thought it was beautiful. I had not seen so many buildings built

of limestone, which now is called Hokie stone, but I can remember being

impressed with that and largeness of Burruss Hall. I was just 00:09:00a country boy and

had not seen a whole lot. I guess Raleigh, North Carolina is the farthest away I

had been from home. That was still further than from my home here to Virginia

Tech. As a matter of fact I often tell people that where I was born I was closer

to four other land grant universities than my own in Raleigh. Had Clemson, had

Tennessee, Georgia, and Virginia Tech that was closer than NC State. I thought

that was interesting, and I had memories of when they were building the stadium,

not the stadium, the 00:10:00coliseum and some new dormitories on that side, I was

amazed at the big rock that were hauled in there. And I observed this one guy

would drive in there in a Cadillac, a nice-looking Cadillac and he had a little

plywood shade type thing and he would go sit there and they would put a stone up

there and he would sit there all day squaring up those rocks to make Hokie

stone. That kind of impressed me that he was able to do that and drive a

Cadillac. I thought that was unusual.

Claire: What do you remember about your first year of Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, 00:11:00I remember a lot of new experiences. I knew I had to concentrate on

my studies. It was not real easy living off campus with some other students that

were also older. There were three living in that same upstairs grocery store

that were transfers from Bluefield College. And there was one fellow in there

that had been in the army and was from Hampton I believe. So they wanted to

party some, but it was a little difficult to study, but we studied, and I also

had been told that, 00:12:00and I didn't commit to that room more than one quarter. At

that time Virginia Tech was operating on quarters and not semesters. So I was

told there would probably be enough students flunk out in the first quarter that

Tony, my friend from Waynesboro, we came here together, that Tony and I could

probably get a room on campus. So sure enough we applied and we got a room on

campus after the first quarter and moved in to the upper quad in one of the

dormitories and then lived in the dormitories throughout the rest of it. As a

matter of fact, later on I was a dorm daddy, which was called counselor or

something, with the nickname was dorm daddy. But we had some fun out there at

Price's Fork. 00:13:00This young man from down at Hampton that had been in the army just

thought he knew everything about everything, and so I teamed up with one of the

fellows that transferred from BlueField, and said, you know, we ought to take

this fellow on a snipe hunt, and they said, yeah. So I got all the others to

agree that they wouldn't tell him and they would play along. So we started

talking up one evening after we came in from classes and after we had eaten, so

I said, you know, the way the moon is tonight and everything I think it would be

a good night for a snipe hunt. Yeah, I bet there would be some out tonight. And

so finally that guy bit and said, what are snipes? 00:14:00I said, well, they're just

nice little animals that run around at night. They're almost impossible to

catch, but if you catch one somebody will give us good money for it. He said,

well, why don't we try it? So I said, okay, we will try it. So I went down to

the store and asked them if they would let me have a feedsack, a burlap bag.

They said, yeah, we'll let you have one. So I brought the bag back up and I

said, all right, we better go. It was just getting dark, and we came back in

towards campus. There was a farm there that Virginia Tech either owned or

leased, but it had a cattle guard and we could drive over in the pastures. So we

drove in 00:15:00there and got out and went to the woods. Finally, I found an old tree

that had fallen and had a big fork in it, and I got this fellow and I said, now,

we're going to do the running around here and beating on the brush and all. I

want you to hold this bag right down the fork of this tree and we're going to

run the snipe into between this fork, and when it runs up the fork you have that

bag and you catch it and you--real tight. So, we went out beating around and

hollering and all, then quietened up some and went on back and got in the car

and went back to the store. Well, I figured he would come in within a half an

hour or so, with the bag, I mean come in a cussing us. Sure enough 00:16:00though, after

about a half an hour he hadn't shown up so I got worried. So I said, I'm going

to go look for him. I'm afraid something bad has happened. So I went driving up

the road and here he came, and he hadn't even thrown the bag away. He still had

the bag in his hand. By that time he had caught on. He did give me a good

cussing, but that was some of the fun we had during that first quarter at

[Virginia] Tech. Football was new for me, and of course we played VMI at the old

stadium in Roanoke. Of course as a civilian I had a car. I had been working at

General Electric, and I got a ride to the football game with some other fellows

and rode over and we came 00:17:00home from the game. And then the next morning I

decided I better go check on my car in the student parking lot. Well I went to

check on my car and someone had taken an old bumper jack and jacked the front

end of that car up and stole my wheel and tire. First on one side, let that down

on the ground, jacked up the other side, stole both my front wheels and tires

off my car and left one side leaning on the old bumper jack. And so man alive

what was I going to do? I didn't have much money, but I scraped up enough money

somehow to go to a junkyard and got two old wheels and got some tires and got my

car going again. But that was one of the non-fun things that happened to me in

my first year at [Virginia] Tech.

Claire: What about the later years at [Virginia] 00:18:00 Tech?

Frank: Well, they got eventful. In my sophomore year it became time to elect

class officers, and at the time the Corps of Cadets was mandatory. But there

were more civilians enrolled than there were Corps of Cadets, but civilians a

lot of them lived off campus. A lot of them were day students, but we had some

civilian dormitories. But all the class system was with regard to the ring dance

and all those functions, was run by the Corps of Cadets. Civilians didn't have a

say in it, except civilians had one officer positon called Civilian Committeeman

at Large. 00:19:00It said committeeman. It didn't say persons, but for there were any

coeds here. But that was all the say civilians had in running the class system.

And the class system was really more powerful than the student government at the

time. So I decided I didn't like that, that we ought to be more involved. So I

came up with this idea that there were so many cadet students that wanted to be

officers that they had to have a primary in order to narrow it down before the

election. And I was watching all this and I noticed that in the primary they

couldn't narrow it down to less than three. 00:20:00There were supposed to be two, but I

guess three of them tied. So there were three in the primary for vice president,

and I thought well this is a perfect opportunity, because those three being in

different companies and so forth would split the vote. And since the Cadets

lived in certain dormitories and the civilians lived in others we were

segregated. I decided that I could pull a sneak campaign with a write-in

candidate for vice president, so I had some post-its printed up and I talked to

enough civilians that were willing to go along with it and they helped me. And

we posted the posters in the civilian dormitories only and kind of kept 00:21:00 it

secret. Didn't put them up until the night before the election. And so then when

the election was held the next day why we started writing in my name and putting

them in the ballot box. And so the Cadets got onto it, saw what was going on and

they went to Dean Dean. The Dean of students at the time was Dean James Dean,

Jim Dean, and we called him Dean Dean, and he said, I don't know. He said, I'm

going to confiscate the ballot boxes and we will just hold them here and we

won't count the votes for a while. Well, I got word of that so I went to the

civilian student body president 00:22:00and asked him to go with me to Dr. Hahn's

office, the president, which we did, and Dr. Hahn listened and he talked to the

dean I guess and finally said, count the ballots. So counted the ballots and I

was elected vice president of the class. And of course all the rest except

civilian committeemen were Cadets and we had our first meeting. It was a right

cold meeting, but I worked on it and won the respect eventually of the others.

We were getting along very good and planning the ring dance and had a very good

ring dance. Then after my junior year for some reason the cadet that was elected

class president dropped out of school, 00:23:00and so that elevated me to president. So

I've been president of the class ever since. Have had a five-year reunion ever

since. Had our fiftieth year last year, so that was that as far as class

politics goes. I guess the next big event after my freshman year was the year

that, last year for president. I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank on his name now.

It will come to me maybe, but Dr. Hahn came in when I was a sophomore. So he

wanted to make some changes 00:24:00so he decided it was time to make the Corps

voluntary. So he had talked to a number of us about it and so forth, knew it was

going to be a big deal politically to do. My state senator at the time, George

Cochran, from Stanton later on became Justice George Cochran, was on the Board

of Visitors. And so in the summer I guess after my sophomore year they were

having a big hearing in Burruss Hall on making the Corps voluntary, and it was

highly charged. The two sides were adamant about their positions. George Cochran

offered to let me ride down with him to that 00:25:00meeting and he and I both spoke in

favor of Dr. Hahn's proposal. That created quite a bit of turmoil on campus and

within the alumni, but it was passed. Some alumni refused to participate

anymore. A lot of division for a while, but Dr. Hahn is very good and finally

smoothed all that over. So I tried the same thing in regard to student

government. We had the Corps of Cadets student government and we also had the

civilian student body, and we had a student senate, civilian student 00:26:00senate. So

I then decide to run for president of the student body. I was still vice

president of the class, and I was elected. Of course I had been elected a

senator in this civilian student body, and then I ran for president of the

civilian student body. I got elected to that and so I started an effort to

combine the two student governments. We had a resolution that passed and put it

before the students, and we did put it before the students and it failed. So we

continued to have two student bodies and Kendell Clay, 00:27:00the president of the

class of [19]66 also became student body president, and he carried on. I think I

remember correctly that it passed under his administration and we've had just

one student body ever since. That was part of the transition. I hope everyone

has read Warren Struther's book that covered that transition from mandatory

corps to voluntary corps, all that in his book is laid out very well. I

recommend if you want to know more history during that period to read that. He

was a communications gentleman that Dr. 00:28:00Hahn had hired.

Claire: So you were really a big part of that?

Frank: Well, I felt I was, and I think I'm mentioned in Warren's books so I

guess he did also. Dr. Hahn always seemed to appreciate it. So that was some of

the challenges I faced while becoming an engineer.

Claire: Other than things that you've already mentioned what were some of your

favorite experiences at Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, I guess one of them had to be the presidential prayer breakfast. In

1964, of course I'd gotten involved in the campus politics and I was involved in

politics back in Augusta Country 00:29:00where I was living at the time while I was

going to [Virginia] Tech. I did not do the formal co-op program, but every summer General

Electric hired me back for the summer, so I lived in the Augusta County

Waynesboro area while going to [Virginia] Tech the regular nine months' terms

and worked during the summers. I had gotten involved in the local politics

there, and so in 1964-- Well let me go back and tell the story about first

before that because it comes earlier. In 1963 Pennsylvania Military Academy in

Chester, Pennsylvania was having an anniversary or some kind of big event and

had requested that Dr. Hahn had a 00:30:00student representative from Virginia Tech be

there for that ceremony. So, I don't know exactly how it happened, but I was

chosen, and so I went to Chester, Pennsylvania in November, and the main event

was to start that evening, but I met with the VMA personnel for lunch at the Old

Chester Hotel prior to the main events happening over the weekend. We were

having lunch there and it came across the TV that President Kennedy had been

shot. Well here I was a young whippersnapper, didn't know quite what was going

to happen, so 00:31:00I became somewhat scared and decided I should return to the

campus. So I got in my car and drove back to campus and ended up, I don't know

what happened to their event; it was probably canceled. But after that of

course, LBJ became president, Lyndon Johnson became the President, but only for

the remainder of John Kennedy's term. So I read the next summer where they

needed some young people to attend the Democratic National Convention in

Atlantic City to hold up signs in front of the TV and do legwork and put out

chairs and so forth, 00:32:00call young citizens for Johnson. So I applied and got

accepted, so I was able to then go to the National Convention in Atlantic City

and hold up signs and so forth. There was a lot of entertainment that went on

that I had an opportunity to go to it, casinos, the park and so forth that I

wouldn't have had the opportunity if I hadn't been there, so that was a great

experience. So then after LBJ was president he had a prayer breakfast every

year. I don't know what caused him to do it, but he invited 00:33:00some young people

from some universities to attend the prayer breakfast. I'm not sure how I got

invited, but I received an invitation to go to the prayer breakfast, and it was

at one of the hotels, it seemed like it was the Mayflower; I can't be for sure,

I could look it up, to the prayer breakfast, and I went. I was seated at a table

with Sam Irving who was the senate leader of the Watergate hearings, and Roy

Rogers, the cowboy movie star, and one other gentleman, but I can't remember his

name. But I went to the prayer breakfast, and Sam Irving, Senator Sam was from

North Carolina, 00:34:00my home state. We had a very good breakfast, talked a lot, and

to this day I have that program that turned over on the back and Roy Rogers

signed it 'Roy Rogers and Trigger', was his horse. So I have that keepsake from

those times. So then, I guess the next big event was in the spring, early late

winter or early spring of [19]65 Linda Byrd Johnson, which was President Lyndon

Johnson's daughter, oldest daughter, decided to have all the student body

presidents from the land grant universities, I think it was just the land grant,

not sure, but had in for 00:35:00a White House dinner. And so I got invited to that, and

with today's security and so forth it's hard to believe, but for that event I

had the invitation and I drove my car right in on the White House grounds and

was able to park there and go to this event. We had dinner with Lady Bird and

President Johnson, Linda, all of us, and then she had some real good

entertainment, like they had Stan Getz in the East Room.

Claire: Oh wow.

Frank: That was a real experience and that was one of the benefits of being

involved in student government at Virginia Tech.

Claire: 00:36:00Wow. That sounds like a really great experience.

Frank: Yes, I'll never forget it.

Claire: Thank you. What were some of your I guess more difficult experiences at

Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, getting through western civilization. I just had never had any

history courses, didn't understand why it's important to know history and so

forth, but in the engineering curriculum you had to pass two quarters of western

civilization. Well, my friend Tony and I that came here as roommates he had the

same problem. And we had to take those 00:37:00two quarters, and we tried our darndest

to understand it. The professor was Dr. Shackelford. He had family in

Charlottesville, and he was related to somebody, but he always sore a suit and

vest with it and he really liked to stand up. He knew history front and back,

and he loved to talk about Napoleon. He would say, I will never forget, he had

quite an accent, almost British I guess, but he would say, oh that Napoleon he

had a lot of wholesome young heifers, and we thought that was funny. 00:38:00But anyway,

we really had a tough time with that course, and it became a point that in order

to pass it we had to do fairly well on the final exam. So we sat up all night

before the final exam and would ask each other the questions just trying to

memorize enough to pass the exam. Still didn't understand it, but we did that

both quarters, and the first quarter Tony got a C and I got a D. Well that was

passing. And the second quarter we just reversed it, I got the C and Tony got

the D, but we got western civilization 00:39:00behind us and that was the only D I made

at [Virginia] Tech, was that in western civilization. I guess the other times,

of course the time they stole my wheels was a tough time. I really didn't have

too many hardships while I was here. I would get letters weekly from my mother

and when she could she would include a twenty dollar bill and that really came

in handy. I ate in the cafeterias. When we lived on the upper quad we would go

eat at the cafeteria, and then we had some horseshoe pits on the upper quad and

we would come back 00:40:00up and pitch horseshoes for an hour, probably until it got

dark and then we would go in and study. But studying was an important part of

it. I was never pledged a fraternity or anything like that, so it was mainly the

campus politics and the studying that I did was my pastime here. I went to the

games, basketball and football games. I enjoyed that. I was from an agricultural

background, had been a state FFA officer in North Carolina, so even though I was

an electrical engineering student I wanted to participate with the guys in the 00:41:00agricultural department. So I did pledge, was accepted and pledged into the

Block and Bridal Club, and they had quite an initiation you had to go through.

Some of that was not fun, but I guess some of it today would be called

harassment, but anyway I participated. I had to wear a big B cut out over my

shoulders and get all the upper classmen to sign it and so forth. Part of my

initiation, every year the Block and Bridal Club has a livestock show and a ham

judging contest that is supposed to mimic the big international livestock show

in Denver, Colorado. But at Virginia Tech the Block and Bridal 00:42:00Club called it

the Little International. And of course a lot of alumni and people came back for

that event and it was a big event, and a big event for the students to be able

to place or win in that contest. So they really gussied up, cleaned up the barn

and the show ring out there, and so this year they wanted to have a real nice

looking show ring and they wanted all the shavings in the show ring to be green.

So I was selected to dye all those shavings green, so I I had to take the old

VPI truck and go get the shavings and then mix up some green dye and mix a ton

or more of shavings and color them green. Jack Copenhagen that was in the 00:43:00department at the time said when I through I looked like a little martian, I was

green also. So that was an unusual event that I had. I really enjoyed then my

other three years in the Block and Bridal Club. That was kind of my fraternity

and that was a good experience. But I can't think of any more hard times. I had

all those activities and I still dream of being out on an activity or something

and having an exam and I'm not going to get back to the exam and I just think

well I'm not going to graduate if I don't make that exam. And thank goodness I

wake up. [Chuckles]

Claire: I have those dreams sometimes too. It's interesting to think that maybe

they never go 00:44:00 away.

Frank: Right.

Claire: You mentioned Dr. Shackelford, who were some other professors who you remember?

Frank: Well, I remember Dr. Barnes. He was a real scholar, a short man,

broad-breasted, really knew his electric motors, things of that nature. I mean

he was a dapper dresser. He wore a suit with a vest and always a tie, and he had

a tie clip that had a chain full of honorary societies on it, Zeta Kappa, Tau

Beta Psi, all the engineering stuff that I was always impressed by, those gold 00:45:00metals he had on that gold chain. He knew his stuff. I learned a lot from him.

Dr. Fulks, even though it was a big class he taught that chemistry so that I

didn't make any Ds in chemistry and I passed it. I don't remember what I made. I

did have a little trouble in English composition, and I'm sorry now I can't

remember the professor that I had my freshman year for English composition, but

I was having trouble with it and I figured I had to do something maybe to earn a

little extra credit. So there was a drama club and I would have to look back 00:46:00 and

see, it seemed like it was Pink something. But anyway, he was head of that and

he would put on plays, Virginia Tech plays. And he was having trouble with his

lighting and sound board. Well, I was an engineering major and I had a quite of

bit of experience in electronics and in wiring. I received my electrical

contractors license in North Carolina when I was 17 years old, and then I had

worked at GE, so I decided I would offer to help him with his lighting board and

his sound system. So that was the extent of my arc education and so forth, and

lo and behold I passed English composition. 00:47:00Of course I always remember Dr.

Shackelford and Dick Shutt who is here this weekend, wrote a book as a graduate

student. I believe he was a graduate student in the EE Department on waves,

Fourier Laplace transforms and so forth. That was a pretty tough course. He and

I had a good talk this morning and those were the good old days. He went on to

teach, I think he ended up teaching at VMI last and he's retired and back here

now. Oh if I just went through the yearbook I could remember a lot more. We had

a Dr. 00:48:00Frederick something, in the engineering mechanics department that wrote a

book and he made that easier to understand through the engineering mechanics.

Claire: How have you used your Virginia Tech education in your life?

Frank: Well, I went back to work for General Electric doing engineering design

engineering on numerical controls. That turns out to be the reason I was never

in the military, because I was working on designing numerical control that was

going to Czechoslovakia, and that was one of our allies at the time. 00:49:00And for

some reason it was supposed to have been an important control for an important

operation in Czechoslovakia, so General Electric Company applied for deferment

for me from the selective service. While I was at Tech I had ridden the bus to

Roanoke three times to take the physical exam to be drafted into the army, and I

somewhat failed it all three times because I'm colorblind.

Claire: Oh, okay.

Frank: My wife said I'm just color dumb. [Laughs] Later convinced I was color

blind, and I found that out in a psychology class here at Virginia Tech my

freshman year, that it was required to take, that I couldn't make the numbers 00:50:00out in that book that had all those different colored dots.

Claire: So you didn't know before then that you were colorblind?

Frank: Didn't know I was colorblind. It wasn't severe, but I couldn't pass it

for the army. So they were getting ready to draft though and decided that wasn't

important and General Electric asked for a deferment, so I was deferred and I

continued to work for them. I moved to a new project they had making a machine

that tested printed circuit boards. Printed circuit boards were just becoming

into high use during the late [19]60s. They had been around since the [19]40s,

but transistors and everything were really growing. One of my first jobs as a

technician at General 00:51:00Electric was to lay out the circuits on a printed circuit

board so you could take photographs and then make negatives and etch the copper

off, take a copper--a copper clad fiberglass board, expose it through

photography, and then etch it and where you had the dark lines the cooper

wouldn't etch away and that became the circuits. So I had already done that, but

then they wanted to design this machine called a PACER, programmable automatic

circuit evaluator and recorder, so I was put in charge of that project and that

took me all over the United States, installing and troubleshooting the PACER

equipment. So then I graduated in 00:52:00[19]65. I had always wanted a farm in the

Shenandoah Valley, so in 1967 I bought a farm in the New Hope community of

Augusta County and that's where I live to this day. But since I had bought that

farm in 1969 General Electric had decided they wanted to move the numerical

control department I was working in to Charlottesville. And I realized that I

commute to Charlottesville and back every day wasn't going to work with the

farm, so I started looking and I found employment at Grottos, Virginia with the

Reynolds Metal Company and transferred from GE to the Reynolds Metals Company 00:53:00 in

1969 and worked at that plant for forty-two years. So that's how I used my

education, forty-two years' worth. In 1971, well in [19]65 the state recognizes

professional engineers if you can pass a test. You have to be a graduate of an

accredited engineering school, but you also have to pass a two-part test. You

take the part A or the first part any time, because it's mostly academic, and I 00:54:00took that before I graduated and passed it. Then you have to work three years

and then you have to take another eight-hour test of problem-solving and so

forth to become a licensed professional engineer. So I worked at GE and then at

Reynolds and decided it was time for me to take the second part of that test in

1971. I had to drive to Richmond to do it, and that was the hardest test I ever

took. It was eight hours long. I worked on that thing, all problem solving. I

was so tired mentally, and when I finished that test I didn't know if I could

drive home, but I went ahead and attempted it. I made it home. I had no idea if

I passed it. 00:55:00I had not studied for it because I had the idea that I would take

it and then I would know what to study. So I took it, but I was so worn out

after that I thought if I didn't pass this thing I will never take it again. It

wasn't as bad as being a prisoner or war I'm sure, because I've heard, but it

was pretty bad. Lo and behold a month later so I got notice I passed it, and

halleluiah. So I've been a license professional engineer ever since.

Claire: So when someone says the words 'Virginia Tech' what is the first thing

that you think of?

Frank: Well, I think of the education, the classes and all, and then right

behind that I think of the fellowship 00:56:00and the friendships that I made here, the

opportunities I had to get more out into the world, because I had lived a fairly

secluded life up until I came to Virginia Tech. I didn't know a think about some

of the religions. My family was Methodist and we had friends that were Baptists,

a few Presbyterians. I didn't know anything about any of the other religions. I

didn't know anything about the ethnic backgrounds of people. All I knew were,

well I can remember a couple of German families that were accepted some way

right after the War and lived there and went to our church. And I can remember

some Jewish families that owned shoes or clothing 00:57:00stores, but I didn't know what

it meant those religions. They said well they are Jewish, there were there. We

had a few blacks in the community, and the blacks would always come to our place

and help dad butcher the hogs. Mother would fix the meals, and this was a long

time before integration, but we all sat down and ate when it was hog butchering

day there and we ate with them and didn't think anything about it. When I went

to high school I rode a school bus right past the black school, but didn't

realize 00:58:00why. Why did they go to a separate school? I had no idea, it's just they

were black and we were white, but there wasn't any rioting. I mean we all got

along. They helped us on the farm. I can remember when I was helping my uncle

and my dad wire some houses after they got electricity into the area that we

wired a number of black houses, and got to know the people. So, I forget now

what your question was.

Claire: Oh, it was what do you think of when someone says the words 'Virginia Tech'?

Frank: Oh, okay. And then I think of those good times, the pit barbeques we did

with the Block and Bridal Club where we would dig a big hole in the ground and

burn a fire in it all night, put 00:59:00sand over the coals and then wrap the meat in

cheesecloth and put it down on the sand and then cover the pit over and let the

meat cook in the ground. That was really good eating and that was a good

experience, keeping that fire going all night. A lot of memories come back, but

most all of them are good.

Claire: I want to go back to something you said a minute ago that's not

necessarily Virginia Tech related, but I'm interested in it. You said you helped

wire your community?

Frank: Yes. My father in World War II had five kids. Well he had four during

World War II. The fifth one wasn't born until 1948, but he was not eligible for

the draft either because of too many children. 01:00:00So he was required to go to

Charleston, South Carolina and work in the shipyards. Well he got assigned to,

because he had some talent for electrical work, to an electricians' crew, And he

became an electrician at shipyards. So then he came back and he took the

electrical contractors exam and passed it and was wiring houses for people.

Before that we didn't have electricity. He had made, he had a water wheel and a

sluice and had put a generator on the water wheel and we could have one or two

lightbulbs, and then in the daytime when didn't need the lightbulbs it made

enough electricity that could pump water up into the house and we didn't have to

carry water from the spring. 01:01:00He made a butter churn so that he could churn

butter. But then in 1946 or [19]47 the rural electrification and so forth after

World War II, Congress had passed that, and we started getting power lines into

the community. So when I got old enough to go with him I would go help him wire

peoples' houses that were getting electricity, and we wired houses for black,

white, whoever. Then when I became seventeen I took the North Carolina

Electrical Contractors exam and became a licensed electrical contractor.

Claire: I guess that's how you got interested in--

Frank: In electrical engineering, yes.

Claire: Are you still 01:02:00involved with Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, yes, I'm president of the class, so [laughs] that's a fair amount

of involvement. I'm on the engineering committee of one hundred. I served

several years on the Alumni Foundation Board, and I guess that's about the

extent of my involvement now. I don't know if you want to get into the politics

I've been involved in, but we can get into that.

Claire: I think we have time.

Frank: That involved helping [Virginia] Tech a lot when I was-- In 1970 01:03:00I pretty

much had my farming operation going and I was doing okay with the engineering

with Reynolds Metals, but the area I lived in in the Valley the Army Corps of

Engineers wanted to build a dam. It was near Verona and they wanted to call it

the Verona Dam. It was to be to make sure that Washington, DC had adequate water

supply. So there was an election coming up in 1971 and the current Board of

Supervisors member as all for building the Verona Dam. He had friends that had

land that would become shore land and they could build cabins and they would

have a place to fish and boat. He was all 01:04:00for it, but the people that were

farming whose lands were going to be flooded they were adamantly against it, and

so it was a pretty big issue. And I decided to run for the Augusta County Board

of Supervisors and take the opposite position. He had served, I'm not sure

whether he was running for his third term. I think he was running, he had served

two terms and running for his third term. It might have been his third and

running for the fourth, but I had some people encourage me so I decided to run

for the Board of Supervisors in 1971 and ran and won. So then I served on the

Board of Supervisors. That had some trying times, came budget time and the

county administrator had a heart attack and was out, 01:05:00and I was chairman of the

board by that time and we had to put a budget together. And here the main man

was out and couldn't help, but I was able to get the school superintendent and

some other people in the office there together and we came up with a budget and

made it through that. And then in 1974 early on the state senator from that area

who had some businesses there in Waynesboro and some in Tennessee had been state

senator seven years or so, and he began to have some troubles in his businesses

that he needed to take care of. So he resigned from the state senate, and I was

chairman of the Board of Supervisors, 01:06:00so I decided I would run for the state

senate. So there was a delegate that was serving at the time and he wanted to

run for state senate also, so he ran on the opposite party. He decided to resign

his house seat and run for the state senate, and so that gave another friend of

mine an opportunity to run with me. I run for the senate and he run for the

house, and so we did and we both won. So the guy that resigned was out and so I

went to the state senate that way and only served three years on the Board of

Supervisors. And then I served until 01:07:001995 in the state senate and had a lot of

conversations over those years with the legislators, Dr. Hahn and all the

presidents, McComas. My favorite, Paul Torgersen. I almost couldn't call his

name. He was one of my favorites along with Dr. Hahn. I worked closely with him.

He was in engineering and was able to help get some money for Virginia Tech and

so forth through the years.

Claire: Why do you think so many Virginia Tech graduates become engaged alumni?

Frank: Well, I know for a 01:08:00fact, full convinced, I was never in the Corps, but

the Corps experience that is generating that Corps, the relationships that is a

big reason that your alumni become so engaged. But then the civilians also

because it's somewhat unique here being in a lower populated area. Still

Blacksburg, some people here may not like me saying this, but I consider it a

rural area, and you have people that come here and there's a fair amount of open

space here. They come from northern Virginia where it's house on house, and it

just becomes a different experience as they grow into it and they realize how 01:09:00nice it is here. And then they do well in their careers and their professions

and realize how good the education is. So then they get older and they start

thinking well I've got to be responsible for something and they want to be

responsible for people younger than them having the same opportunity that they

had, so they become engaged and want to keep it going. I think. That's my

opinion of course.

Claire: That makes sense, yeah. What changes have you seen at Tech over the years?

Frank: Oh my goodness. The growth is the main thing. It just keeps growing, but

as far as the basics I 01:10:00guess to really be able to absolutely say this I should

come back and go to classes two or three days, but I just have a feeling that

the basics of the education and everything is pretty much the same. The

professors, the instructors are dedicated. They are not here just for the money.

There's not that much money. They are here to educate and make productive

citizens. I think that's why it continues to be a great institution.

Claire: What changes would you like to see in the school?

Frank: 01:11:00Oh, I haven't given that much thought to it. I don't really know of, if

they were to name me president I don't know what I would change. Probably

nothing, but I would probably get to know it better and want to make some

changes, but I'm really not qualified to answer that question, because while I'm

somewhat involved I'm not involved that much.

Claire: Right. Okay. So generally speaking what would you like people to know

about you?

Frank: About me?

Claire: Hmm.

Frank: Oh, that's a tough one to answer too. I guess I would just like them to

know that I'm very appreciative of the opportunities I've had, very appreciative

of the people I've got to know 01:12:00and those that have shown respect for what I've

tried to do to make things better for people. That's all. I don't need any

buildings named after me. I don't need any of that. I'm just very happy with

what I've been able to do and feel like I have contributed to some better life.

I guess I would just like to do more for the people that have not been as

fortunate as I have. I would like to, of course I can't do anything about it

here, but I would like to see really poverty eliminated. I think we have a lot

of poverty because a lot of people are greedy and don't want to 01:13:00help those

people. A lot of people feel that they should help themselves, and there are a

lot of reasons they can't. I guess if I could wave a magic wand and do anything

I would like to eliminate poverty and suffering.

Claire: Thank you. What would you like people to know about Virginia Tech?

Frank: Well, I would like them to know that it's an opportunity for a world

class education, and if you're willing to come here and work hard you can get

that education. You can make a difference in the world. 01:14:00I guess you asked me

what I would want to change, if there's some way I could make it more affordable

for the less fortunate people that's what I think needs to be done. I'm all

right with extending free college education to all people that are willing to

work and earn it. I'm not for just making it free and then the educational

institutions just anybody that comes they run them through just to collect the

government money and you're not educating them. But I think anybody that's

capable of attending Virginia Tech, I think they ought to be able to come here

and they shouldn't be burdened and spend half their career paying 01:15:00back their

debt. I like the programs where if you go into a certain field you pay off your

debt by just working in that field. I think there's some teaching positions that way.

Claire: Yes. What do people not know about Virginia Tech that you think they

should know?

Frank: Well, I think a lot of them think it's all about sports and fame and they

don't really know that you can matriculate here and get an education that is

worth something, that will get you a good job 01:16:00without having to participate in

anything else. You can really come here and get your education, go to work. You

don't have to be from an elite family or anything. You can just be an ordinary

citizen and get a good education.

Claire: Thank you. Is there anything that I haven't asked you would like to talk

about or anything you thought I was going to ask that I didn't?

Frank: Well I didn't think much about what you might ask me. Oh, I think we've

pretty well covered it all. 01:17:00I just can't come up with anything else right now. I

remember a lot of good times with Dr. Hahn and how he was such a good speaker

and he could make everybody-- He was speaking to feel good, feel good about

being there and feel good about participating. I think Tech owes him a lot. He

was a pioneer. One of the youngest college presidents ever, took the initiative

to transition it from mandatory Corps to voluntary Corps and to grow it. 01:18:00He had

a lot of pride in the people that were graduates here that had done well. I can

remember him telling him about the Board of Visitors. I can't even recall his

name right now, he says, I like to have so and so on the Board of Visitors,

because I like to see him drive up in his Rolls Royce and park it out in front

of Burruss Hall. He was from Roanoke. Why that won't come to me. If I had been

at just an ordinary party that name would come right to me. It's a great place

and I can't think of anything else I don't think at this time.

Claire: 01:19:00Okay. We can end here. I thank you very much. I really appreciate your interview.

Frank: Oh, you're most welcome.

[End of interview]