Oral History with Chris Kappas 5/6, December 06, 2018 (Ms2016-015)

Joe Forte: Today is December 6th, Thursday.

Chris Kappas: The day of Saint Nicholas.

Joe: Day of Saint Nicholas. It's 3:00 PM. We're in the Newman Library in the

University Libraries at Virginia Tech. My name is Joe Forte and I'll be

interviewing the narrator of this oral history, Chris Kappas. This is probably

the final in a long series of interviews we've been sitting down with Chris.

Chris: [Laughter] And if not the final, maybe one more time with my wife, maybe.

Joe: Maybe. That would be nice.

Chris: That would be nice, so she could deny everything.

Joe: [Laughter] So she can offer a counter-narrative. We've talked a lot about

the history of your family in Blacksburg, how your father came to town and

opened up what would become the Cellar and how that led to Souvlaki and other

restaurant enterprises. You ran Souvlaki 00:01:00and the Cellar for a while after your

father left the business. I'd like, if you think we can get some good stories

out of it, I'd like to talk about a little bit more recent experience. We talked

about your experience, when you were young and coming of age and coming into the

business, that family living in Blacksburg, but I'd like to also know what it

was like for you and your wife and your children, raising a family in

Blacksburg, running a now mature and established business in Blacksburg and just

life in town. You told us that yesterday, you gave a lecture on the Virginia

Tech campus, to a class about starting a small business?

Chris: I did. It was a class of juniors and seniors. They were studying how to

start a new business. I think the class was called entrepreneurship, if I'm

pronouncing that 00:02:00correct. Basically there was a professor who wanted some input

on how to start a new business venture that was never done before. And if it was

done before, how would they start a new business? It was very interesting

really. I was honored and humbled to speak to the class. I'm not sure how I was.

I haven't gotten any input from the professor yet. But the other students seem

to enjoy it.

Joe: What did you tell them? What was the perspective you brought to it? Because

in one sense, you stepped into a very established business, but you also did

something new and different.

Chris: Exactly, that's what we stressed in the class. How do you start something

that's so new and get it going? Basically, I went over some things that we've

talked about before, 00:03:00Joe. When I first got married, I married a Greek girl from

New York City, and up in the city, there were a lot of vendors out on the

sidewalk. One of the businesses was selling shish kebab and Greek. My wife and I

talked about bringing a shish kebab cart or an outdoor grill to Blacksburg and

put it on College Avenue, especially during good weather, and see how it would

work. Then, of course, over a period of time, that materialized into the

restaurant itself, Souvlaki. I got married in 1971, December the 12th, the day

that will live in infamy, to a wonderful person. She's been with me for

forty-seven years now. Without her help, I don't think Souvlaki would have

materialized at all. I owe everything to my lovely wife Maria who stood behind

me and encouraged me that it would 00:04:00work and it would not disappear, and that was

very helpful. She did a lot for the business originally when we went indoors,

when we left the cart business. Although the cart was done for special festive

occasions, outdoor festivals, whatever, Steppin' Out. Going indoors, Maria

really did most, 80, 90 percent of the Greek cooking: homemade spanakopita,

homemade tiropita, of course the baklava, different other Greek desserts. It was

very unique to Blacksburg. And in the same time, the children came and had to

divide a lot of my time--not of my time. My wife had to devote a lot of time,

almost 100 percent of her time, to raising the children. It wasn't that I 00:05:00was an

absentee father, I did the best that I could, but liquidating a couple of the

old businesses took some of my time and death in the family and my first cousin,

liquidating that business that he was running. It was a little tough back in

those days, and starting your business, Souvlaki. As I mentioned before, people

didn't know what this ethnic food was all about. Basically, like I told the

class yesterday, I basically sold it on a toothpick because people were leaving.

They were not familiar with what I had. They didn't see pizza, they didn't see

lasagna, they didn't see spaghetti, they didn't see a hamburger or hotdogs. It

was all quite foreign to them. I would start grabbing them by the hand. I said,

before you leave here, get them a toothpick. I would give them a sample of what

I had on the grill and that sort of got 00:06:00their attention, and it tasted very good

to them.

Joe: When you're speaking to a class and saying how to start a small business,

something new, something that hasn't been around. When you look back at starting

Souvlaki, does it seem like a series of errors and you're figuring it out as you

go kind of thing, and are you then conveying the lessons you learned from that,

or did you go in with a strategy that you tried to follow?

Chris: Well, certainly it was a series of errors because I didn't know initially

for a year or a year and a half, that's how long it took, whether the business

was going to be successful or not. Sure, if your door doesn't open, you begin to

wonder what you're gonna do. Initially, I befriended a good friend named Jim

Littl[efield]--I forgot his name, a professor in marketing. He was head of

marketing, and he helped 00:07:00me. He brought an MBA class to make a study on how I

should market Souvlaki, and that helped a lot.

Joe: And you took their advice? They came up with some good ideas?

Chris: They came up with tremendous ideas. For instance, I went on radio

advertising. I didn't know till I got on radio what a morning drive was and what

an evening drive was. I had no clue. The radio vernacular, it's people who drive

in the morning to work and people who drive in the afternoon back home.

Joe: Peak listening time.

Chris: They turn on the radio, listening time! Again, the students helped with

that, and we geared our advertisement morning hours and afternoon hours, not

late evening hours. It was very expensive. But I figured it was the cost of

doing business and that was part of it. It was very 00:08:00 helpful.

Joe: Well, if you look back at the whole arc of the businesses from your father

and his partner and then you coming in and then Souvlaki, would you say that

that push on the radio represents a new level of marketing?

Chris: Absolutely. That push on the radio helped me see things that I didn't see

before, where the old advertisement that we had with the family was the word of

mouth and established over a period of years and people patronized us.

Joe: No advertising at all.

Chris: No advertising at all. My goodness gracious. We didn't know what

advertising was. We thought that was a waste of money. It can be a waste of

money if you don't target the right people at the right time from what I

understood. One of the guys that helped me along with advertising was Richard

Walters who owned Books, Strings, and Things. And he was really big into advertising.

Joe: Yeah, I remember those commercials.

Chris: Of course, we were across the street from each other, and he'd come over

and help me 00:09:00write my ad, whatever. Of course, the local radio people would help

too with that.

Joe: He wrote his own copy and he helped you write a copy.

Chris: He helped me write a copy. He would help me a little bit. But I learned

on my own that advertising done effectively is effective. But that was new to

me. The other part was that I had to be away from the family, especially the

children, for a period of time because I had to devote as much time to the

business as possible, because I felt that, without me, it wouldn't work. As the

children were growing, they went out for sports, track and basketball, both of

them. I would miss most of the practices, not that I was invited. Sometimes

during good weather, soccer practice was around three or four o'clock in the 00:10:00afternoon. I would get in my car and go up to the high school and overlook the

practice. Of course, my son didn't like that because he says I'm the only parent

that came to soccer practice. I felt that he felt it was a little bit too much

for a parent, but I stayed out of the way.

Joe: You felt like you weren't putting in enough time. He felt like you were

smothering. [Laughter]

Chris: But when it came to home games, I would try to make it. But away games,

it was a little difficult. My wife Maria did most of the away games. I think if

I have any regrets, I didn't spend as much time with my children as I should

have, but at the same time, I've spent more time with my children than my father

ever spent with me. I never saw my father except on Sundays when he wasn't working.

Joe: You have two children?

Chris: I have two children. They are eighteen months apart, Vicki and Nicki. If

they misbehaved outside of the house or something, you go outside and call one 00:11:00name and they both came running. [Laughter] There was no problem getting their attention.

Joe: Did they work in Souvlaki?

Chris: I'm sorry?

Joe: Did they work in either of the restaurants?

Chris: Yeah, when they were young, they did. Vicki helped a little bit. Nick was

a tremendous help. By the time he got to be a sophomore or a junior in high

school, he helped me out with Souvlaki a lot, especially during Steppin' Out. I

think by the time he graduated high school and became a freshman at [Virginia]

Tech, I think he could probably run Souvlaki by himself without me. Sometimes

when he was there, he'd shoo me out of there. But at the same time, Joe, I'll be

truthful with you, I knew my daughter was not going to be in the restaurant

business even though she married somebody in the restaurant business. But I sort

of stressed education to my children, get as much education as possible. My

daughter got a bachelor's at Radford University, she got a master's at American

University in Washington. My son got a bachelor's in biology here at Virginia 00:12:00Tech. And then he didn't want to go to medical school. He wanted to be getting

the aspect of the business part of medicine. He got his PhD at the University of

North Carolina, Chapel Hill. I'm proud of the fact that education has proven to

be a very positive effect on their lives, because they're using it. It's not

going to waste. Even now they're married and have children, but still, their

education is of prime importance.

Joe: Now, you characterized your move into the business, and correct me if I'm

wrong, but it seems that it wasn't assumed that you were going to take over the

business, and you sought other paths, but then you did feel somewhat compelled

to come back to help. Is that correct?

Chris: I did. After school, I left and went to Richmond for about a year. But

anyway, I came back, I was the only child, and ethnic families have a way of

making you feel guilty if you 00:13:00don't come back to the family in a way. I don't

have any regrets at all. It was difficult to work with some of the family

because they were older, I was a little younger, I had different ideas,

whatever. But it worked out well.

Joe: Were you reacting to that experience at all with your children? It sounds

like you're saying that you intentionally and specifically set them on a path

where they wouldn't take over the business. Is that what you meant?

Chris: I didn't want them to be in this business because of the grueling hours,

and because it would take away from family because having gone through it

personally with my father and spending the time, especially after I opened up

Souvlaki, spending a lot of time. I just saw an opportunity for both of them,

that they didn't have to be in this business, if you 00:14:00understand. It's not that I

pushed them out intentionally, but I knew my daughter obviously was gonna get

married one day, probably, either staying locally or leave, but especially in my

son, I didn't want him to be involved that much. But if I saw that he was not

doing well academically or had an interest in the restaurant, I would probably

advise him to stay even though he didn't like the restaurant that much. But I

just saw an enlightened person in Nick and in Vicki that they followed the rest

of their life.

Joe: So your hope for them was that they had choices?

Chris: Absolutely. Matter of fact, when my daughter met her future husband, he

came down all the way from--have we talked about the 00:15:00story? They were dating for

about five or six months, and he came down, although I had met him before, of

course. And he came, calls me up on the phone and says, Mr. Kappas, this is so

and so up and over in Hanover, Pennsylvania. And I said, who? He says, I'd like

to come down and talk to you. I said, sure, son, what's it all about? He says,

well, I will not talk on the phone, I would appreciate very much if you don't

say anything to Mrs. Kappas that I'm coming down.

Joe: Are you saying you had no idea who this was? [Laughter]

Chris: I had an inkling. I said, what does this guy want? I met him a couple of

times. Vicki invited him down to football games and all things I know.

Joe: But you knew he was associated with your daughter?

Chris: I certainly knew that they were serious. I was not in the dark,

obviously. He comes down on a heck of a rainy day, drives six hours, whatever it

was, non-stop rain. Downtown, I should have lunch with this guy. Where am I

gonna go? I'm not gonna go to the Cellar, I'm not gonna go to Souvlaki, so we go

over to the Farmhouse and have lunch at the 00:16:00Farmhouse. He's a golfer, so we talk

about golf. He was a Buckeye fan from Ohio. Originally he was born in Ohio, so

he was a Buckeye fan, so we talk about the Ohio State football team. Obviously,

we talk about Hokie athletics. We're sitting there at the Farmhouse for two and

a half hours, and I said, George, son. I said, listen, you've come down a long

way. I said, why are we here? I like golf, you like athletics, but why are we

here? [Laughter] I hope he's listening to this. [Laughter] He says, Mr. Kappas.

He says, I'm in love with your daughter and I'd like to have your permission to

marry her. So, we sort of stared at each other. And I said, oh, wow. I said, how

does Vicki feel about you, George? He says, well I hope she feels the same 00:17:00 way,

I feel that she does. I said, that's wonderful. Then, Joe, it just rolled out of

my mouth, and I've told several people this, I said, can you provide for my

daughter? If she wants to work, I want her to be a decision that is not

necessary for her to work. Can you provide for her? He looked at me and says,

absolutely, I can provide for her. You do not have to worry about that. Of

course now George, my son-in-law, brings that up to me all the time and throws

it to my face. [Laughter]

Joe: What year was that?

Chris: Let's see, they've been married fourteen, fifteen years now? They have a

ten-year-old. Yeah, about thirteen, fourteen years ago, something like that.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: Maybe fifteen years ago when they did, I don't know.

Joe: It's a nice story.

Chris: I'm sure that date is written somewhere, and my wife will forgive me for

not 00:18:00remembering, but Hotel Roanoke always remembers about the date because I

still get a Christmas card from them, thanking me for the reception for around

four-hundred-some people [Laughter].

Joe: Ah the Kappas wedding.

Chris: Greek weddings! We talk about Greek weddings. You've got to do two things

before you leave this earth. You've gotta get invited to a Greek wedding or go

see the Greek Isles. You gotta see the Greek Isles.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: But anyway, that was when my daughter got married, and then on the other

side of that, Nick went to graduate school at the University of North Carolina.

That's where he met his future wife. They were dating almost six years before he

gave her a ring, I think after they graduated. It turned out they were in

different labs, but she turned out to be a great lady. We just enjoy her very

much. I remember at 00:19:00Nick's rehearsal dinner in Charleston--they got married in

Charleston--and everybody came from California, some classmates, whatever, and

[Laughter] everybody gave a toast. Then, the last person who gave a toast was

Nick's mother-in-law. She got up and said, I know you people have come in a long

distance to be here, California, New York, wherever you're from, but the longest

person to get here is Nick Kappas. It took him six and a half years to give my

daughter a ring. [Laughter] It just cracked up everybody.

Joe: Yeah. That's a good line. [Laughter]

Chris: It was cute. They got married in Charleston in a Greek Orthodox Church

and it was wonderful, it was great.

Joe: Did your children attend Virginia Tech as an undergrad, either of them?

Chris: Nick went to Virginia Tech. My daughter went to Radford.

Joe: Okay. They both stayed kind of 00:20:00 close?

Chris: They stayed kind of close. Nick interviewed William and Mary, and the

University of Virginia, and I think Virginia Tech, but he narrowed it down. He

just wasn't sure. He decided to stay close. But graduate school was something

else. He thought about graduate school at Virginia Tech, but his advisor at

Virginia Tech says, if you're doing biology, we don't recommend your masters.

You go straight through your PhD, and we'd love for you to stay here, but you

need to go somewhere else and get another perspective. He applied to about eight

or ten different graduate schools, Columbia, Georgetown, several, NYU, I don't

remember. He got accepted to all of them and decided Chapel Hill was the place

to go. If you've never been to Chapel Hill, I advise you to go. It's a beautiful

town, great university, great academics.

Joe: What was that like for you then, with your kids going off to college but 00:21:00not really going off?

Chris: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because that was the first time.

Because they both left for graduate school on the same day. One went to

Washington, D.C., and the other one to North Carolina. I think my wife went with

one of them, I don't remember if she went with Vicky or Nick, and I was left all

alone in Blacksburg for the first time with the children not being around. I

just didn't know. Really, I got emotional.

Joe: Yeah, sure.

Chris: I think that hit both my wife and I that we're becoming empty nesters.

That hits hard. It doesn't hit as hard as after they're married, you know,

that's a finality.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: But that's what it's all about, that you teach your children to be

independent and away from you and make it on their own.

Joe: When the nest was empty, were you still actively running the business?

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. Oh gosh, yeah. Very 00:22:00 active.

Joe: Did your wife come back to it more?

Chris: A little bit. Of course, she would help out during ball games and stuff

like that, but she was very active. As the years went on, you realize you have

to make a move, and you look at retirement.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: But I knew that the Cellar Restaurant was in good hands, a former

employee. I was wondering how it was going to happen with Souvlaki. I've had

people that were interested in it. But I wanted somebody that had an emotional

attachment to it. And that's where Mike Buchanan came in, the new owner, and he

worked for me at Souvlaki. He was a part time employee for Little Doc's on the

corner where Souvlaki is now. When I bought Little Doc's out, he introduced 00:23:00 himself.

Joe: Wow. So, Mike was with you from the beginning at that location?

Chris: Exactly. That's why I'm so happy that someone that had an emotional

involvement into the business, and he knew what it was all about and we worked

that out and it came out great for the both of us.

Joe: Yeah. Mike worked there when I worked there.

Chris: Yeah.

Joe: I knew he had been there longer than I was. But I didn't realize he came

with the building.

Chris: He came with the building. Of course, I didn't buy the building, but I

bought Doc's business out. That was helpful. Of course, when Mike worked

part-time, when you were there, he was working at Virginia Tech, full-time at

Virginia Tech, working part-time at Souvlaki. He'd come in and say, when are you

gonna sell me this place? I'm interested. Come on Mike, you don't have the

money, blah blah blah . One thing led to another. I presume that during the

discussion, instead of kidding about it, we got serious about 00:24:00it. We sat down

with legal people and Maria and his wife, and we worked it out. So now he owns

Souvlaki, 100 percent.

Joe: It really started out just kidding around and then developed--?

Chris: Yeah. He would say, when are you gonna sell me this place? I say, get

outta here!

Joe: Now, if you hadn't had someone like Mike saying, when are you gonna sell me

the place, and you had someone who trusted, someone you knew was gonna take it

over, would you just continue to run it, just in more absentee fashion?

Chris: I probably would continue to run it the way I did.

Joe: You wouldn't have retired?

Chris: I would not have retired. Not then, but after a while. I keep thinking

about, I would've marketed the business such a way where people would know it

was for sale and that I was serious.

Joe: Okay.

Chris: Sometimes you market the business in a way because you want to get out,

it's maybe not doing well. Nobody wants to acquire 00:25:00businesses going downhill.

You want to acquire an ongoing business, a blue chipper. But it worked out. I

was lucky, and like I said before, Mike came around, and I sold it before the

2008, 2009 recession which hit the country big time financially. I had a buyer

of two things. If not now, when? The children are gone with grandchildren, whatever.

Joe: Yeah. Which was a more difficult transition--?

Chris: Yeah

Joe: The children leaving town, or leaving the business?

Chris: Would you like to question me again? What now? [Laughter]

Joe: Those are two pretty affecting transitions. You talked about your feeling

when it was just you left in town, with the children, but then not having the business.

Chris: When the children 00:26:00left, I was alone. I didn't know which way to turn. I

was looking for people to talk to. All my friends were gone. I couldn't find

anybody to talk to. When I sold the business and put my John Henry [Hancock] on

the contract, it was over with, I went to one of my best buddy's office, John

Brown, Brown Insurance Agency. He's retired now, and he still has an office

there. I grew up with John, childhood friends, college friends, and all. I went

into his office and I said, I just sold Souvlaki to Mike Buchanan. John will

remember this, but I teared up.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: But I'm telling you that now.

Joe: Sure.

Chris: It was difficult.

Joe: But then how was retirement?

Chris: How is retirement?

Joe: How is retirement? [Laughter]

Chris: Well, retirement from the restaurant business is a 00:27:00double-edged sword. I

don't miss the work because I worked hard, I was there all the time. I terribly

miss my customers because I'm a people person. I had that interaction, as you

know when you were there, the interaction with the people. I think I considered

my customers my friends, my people. Of course, they were a source of income, but

I miss my customers. I do that. As far as retirement goes, I'm not a hundred

percent retired from the restaurant business. I have an office in the building

where the Cellar is, but in the morning at nine or ten o'clock in the morning, I

go down and have coffee at Souvlaki.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: They're not open yet, and I just like to be there, and a couple of my

friends will visit with me and have coffee with me. In a way, I'm really not

out. Mentally, I'm not. Physically, I'm out. My wife and my children keep

saying, Dad, 00:28:00Chris, quit going there, you don't own this business anymore,

you're out of it. And in a way, I want to tell them, yeah, I know I'm out of it.

But in a way, I'm still there.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: It keeps me young and vibrant.

Joe: Sure.

Chris: Like I said before, downtown blood runs in my veins, so I enjoy downtown.

But thank God I made some sound investment in real estate as I was in the

business, and what I haven't sold, I'm managing now, that I own by myself. That

keeps me away from home. I have an office, like I said, downtown, so I enjoy

going there. That keeps me busy at least once or twice a month in the beginning

of the month. If it's not a maintenance thing-- thank God I have good tenants.

Joe: Do you have residential properties?

Chris: I have residential properties above the Cellar 00:29:00there. Beside my office,

there are three rental properties there, another office and three apartments.

And then I own the house where I grew up that was deeded to me by my dad way

back fifty years ago, the house where I grew up, and then I own some property

around that house too, rental property. That keeps me busy, and I'm busy enough

to stay out of Maria's hair.

Joe: You manage the properties yourself?

Chris: I manage them myself.

Joe: You didn't handle them over there in one of the companies.

Chris: I was in the real estate business with all the partners, but we've

liquidated that, we've sold that. That also kept me busy too. So, I've stayed

busy. Anybody contemplating retirement, I would really advise, stay home as much

as possible, stay out of the couch, get off the idiot tube TV or whatever, and

be active in something, 00:30:00whether it's golf or athletics or volunteerism or

whatever, but stay active for God sakes.

Joe: You say that downtown blood runs in your veins or however you put it. You

must feel in some sense that you had a hand in building downtown. Is that so?

Chris: Yeah, I think you're right there. Several years ago, I remember, maybe

twenty-five years ago when we still had the Greek's restaurant, I saw the

properties behind the Greek's was owned by seven, eight different individuals:

the bank, a real estate company, the Town of Blacksburg owned property, all

these other little entities that have buildings that were at the back of the

Cellar. There were seven or eight different owners. It was a big blank space

back there, no parking or anything. So, I called up the Town of Blacksburg--and

thank God there was an assistant town manager and his name is Doug Eckel, I'll

never forget him--and I said, what if I get 00:31:00all these property owners together

and see if we can do a community parking for downtown? We didn't have any

parking. He says, that's a great idea if you can get them together. That's what

I did. I was instrumental in having the Progress Street parking lot that

involves seven or eight different property owners and the Town of Blacksburg

being the majority property owner because they bought the old building behind

the Cellar and all this other stuff. The other thing that I was instrumental in

is, along with Olivio Ferrari who designed the Cellar underneath the building,

the old Greek Cellar, and he gave us an idea of doing a plaza. At that time,

they were closing off College Avenue and making that a library plaza. He says,

wouldn't it be a great idea if we have the plaza at the Library of Virginia Tech

and a plaza at the end of College Avenue where the Greek's is, where the Cellar

restaurant is, and redo College Avenue? That was an idea 00:32:00that I brought along to

the Town of Blacksburg with letters and whatever, and as of five or six years

ago, we remodeled College Avenue and made it a beautiful pedestrian mall with

outdoor restaurants and whatever. I think it's absolutely gorgeous, March, April

when it opens up through November, that you have a plethora of people in

downtown Blacksburg.

Joe: It is really nice.

Chris: I'm hoping that the same thing that was gonna occur with the

new--although I'm not involved--with the new development at the old Blacksburg

Middle School, that we were gonna have some kind of pedestrian thing that will

unite what they call the new town. Have you read about this? Anyway, that new

development, the Blacksburg Middle School, where the Brownstone is and going all

the way up to Blacksburg Motor Company, that it will unite both entities

together. I feel I was responsible, not for that, but I feel like I was

responsible for College Avenue and 00:33:00the Progress Street parking lot. I think I've

been a positive force for downtown. Other than downtown, I have only one

influence. When I first built my house up on Apperson Park, it was sitting on

top of a hill, and then when we got to finishing the house, going up on the

second floor or even my first floor to turn on the water, I had no water

pressure. I confronted some of the neighbors of the Apperson Park, and the lower

the houses were, the better pressure. but the more houses we had up on the hill

there was no pressure. So I get some signatures from all the neighborhood. What

year was that? I guess I've been in my house forty years now. I get the

signatures from the neighborhood for the Town of Blacksburg to build a water

tower up on North Main Street. That's my water tower! [Laughter]

Joe: Yeah, so you could take a 00:34:00shower. Good pressure.

Chris: [Laughter] I addressed the town council and a good couple of my friends,

they're all gone now. I addressed the council, I said, ladies and gentlemen, I

just built up on Apperson Park, we don't have water pressure, we have a fire up

there. We've got a major problem, we need water pressures. My four-year-old son

has more water pressure than I do in my house. [Laughter] If you know what I

mean by water pressure from my son. [Laughter] Anyway, you may want to edit that out.

Joe: I think so. [Laughter].

Chris: I got a laugh out of the council. I think we've been here long enough

where I think I've had some positive influence.

Joe: When you say that staying busy in retirement is important, are you trying

to stay effective in the community?

Chris: Not as effective as I like at my 00:35:00age. I learned a long time ago when I

got involved in some parking committees and one thing with, many years ago,

people sit on a committee, they just like to postpone things. Being in business

all my life, I just like to make decisions. One of my first appointments was by

a mayor who wanted to study downtown parking, so he formed a committee. We were

seven or eight or ten of us. We got on the committee, and the first thing, there

was ad hoc member on the committee from council at this parking committee. The

first thing he says, well, we need a subcommittee to study this. [Sighs] I'm

looking at a friend of mine, the banker and another businessmen, we're looking

at each other. Why do we need a subcommittee to study this committee? We know

why we're here! [Laughter] Anyway, to make a long story short, I just don't like

to get tangled down in paperwork and red tape.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: I gotta make a 00:36:00decision, right or wrong.

Joe: So, but you are involved in a lot of the social relationships that make up

downtown and Blacksburg life. What would you say it's like being a landlord in

this town? Like, having residential tenants, managing those properties. It must

be an interesting experience because of the college, or do you steer away from

college students? How do you run your properties?

Chris: I would like to consider myself a good landlord. If I'm going to have an

empty space, I'm not going to have any rental income. So I got to have a tenant,

and to have a tenant, I gotta be good to him. I don't want him to take advantage

of me. I think it's like sleeping together. You got to get along. From what I

understand, the majority of the 00:37:00landlords in Blacksburg are wonderful people and

are willing to work with the university and with the students to make them happy

while they're here. I know personally do. I bend over backwards to make them

happy. But as far as I know, the tenant-landlord relationship is good. We have

some wonderful developers in Blacksburg. I think, at times, they get a bad rap.

But at the same time, they're in business to make money.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: I'm sure there are some bad ones out there that take advantage of the

students. If you need to, you can drive by around. Like I did yesterday, I drove

by and see some of these old dilapidated houses and whatever. You know it's a

rental property, come on, man, fix your property up, put some money and make it

attractive and make it affordable. Don't take advantage of the students, if

that's the case.

Joe: It's 00:38:00somewhat more than just an investment for you. You're saying you take

pride in your properties?

Chris: Absolutely. Because we own the Cellar building, we've revamped those

apartments. Obviously, we can't put air conditioning in it because it's an older

building, but we have air conditioning units, we put in dishwashers, we put in

new cabinets. Every time it's empty, we go in and paint, do anything we need to

do. We just finished putting a $30,000 roof on top of the Cellar Restaurant,

$30,000. We had some minor leaks, but those minor leaks become major leaks, so

you make the investment to improve your building. Kevin, the other half owner of

the building, we've made these decision as owners of the building. Even before

Kevin came in, the family, we made the same, to maintain it. Otherwise, it

doesn't work. You can go now and see certain empty buildings downtown

Blacksburg, and they're just unmaintained, and that's why they're empty. We

don't want to have a slum landlord 00:39:00image. I don't think we do.

Joe: Yeah, of course not! [Laughter] Let's see. What do you think? You are

writing something down over there Slade, was it something that occurred to you?

Slade Lellock: Technical notes.

Joe: [Pause] So. It sounds, then, like it's a positive experience for you,

owning properties, renting properties, is that correct? Obviously--what am I

getting at here? The keeping busy that you're talking about, is it the hanging

around Souvlaki, hanging around the Cellar, 00:40:00seeing your friends, talking, having

coffee, or is there something about managing the properties that makes you feel

like you're remaining vital in the community?

Chris: Those are a little different, but both of them are true. They're not

related, but my personal stuff, to go into Souvlaki or the Cellar and having

coffee or beer with my friends, whatever, that's entirely different. That keeps

me busy and occupied. But managing the property is strictly business. Number

one, it's my income, my main source of income. You're not gonna make it on

social security, guys. It's my main source of income, and if I don't maintain

the property right, then I'm not going to get the maximum rent out of it. And

maximum rents, I don't mean by ripping off tenants. I mean, what does the market

bear for this apartment downtown, whatever. It has this, it has that, it has

that. Basically, I have a rent policy with most of my tenants. What can you live

with? 00:41:00Let's talk about this. I have a minimum of what I need to make my expenses

or to make my obligations to the bank if it's mortgage or whatever. But I have

my minimum of what I expect, to pay my taxes, whatever, man. But let's talk

about rent, this is what I would like, can you afford that?

Joe: That's a conversation you have with your tenants?

Chris: Absolutely, all the time. I just had it a couple of days ago at the

Cellar building, which is now rented since 2020. Most of the time, I don't even

have to mark it for sellability because the present tenants refer me to their

friends that are interested in it. We have a very wonderful relationship.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: Both Kevin and myself and my property, my whole stuff. I can't imagine

ripping off people.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: I just want to make it comfortable for both of us. That's in rents or

whether you're buying or selling real estate. To me, a good 00:42:00deal of selling and

buying real estate--both people are happy. The guy that bought it, the guy

that's selling it, the guy that bought my business.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: You've got to find a happy thing here. But I think I may be in the

minority. I don't know.

Joe: Maybe. You say you see it as more of a partnership, it sounds like you're describing.

Chris: Absolutely. We're sleeping together. I don't want to use that analogy,

but we're in this together.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: This is what the rent has been the last couple of years. Can you afford

that? My real estate taxes just went up, as you know. The assessments went up in

2019, tremendous. Garbage and water has gone up. I might need to bump at 5 or 10

percent. Can you afford that? We talk about it.

Joe: You discuss what you're facing with your tenant.

Chris: 00:43:00Absolutely. It's an open relationship. But it doesn't mean, because we

have open relationship, that doesn't mean that tenants goes in with keg parties

and does stuff against the law and the police come and everything else. I'm not

gonna put up with that.

Joe: You ask them to respect it as their home and you respect it as their home.

Chris: I will go after a certain period of time that your rent is due on the 5th

or 10th of the month where there is some ten percent fee on top of that. I said,

hold on a minute, if you don't get your check from your parents on time, or your

employer does not pay you, come and tell me that you have a difficult time this

month paying the rent on time and we'll work it out! I'm not gonna charge you

that fee.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: But be up front with me.

Joe: Yeah, I can't speak for the whole town, but in my experience with property

managers in this town, that does seem unique.

Chris: I'm in the minority? [Laughter]

Slade: I wanna rent from you! 00:44:00 [Laughter]

Chris: Well, you can nominate me in the Collegiate Times on the best landlord in Blacksburg.

Joe: Okay.

Chris: Thank you. [Laughter]

Joe: What else do you do?

Chris: Well, I travel a lot now.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: Because of the children and grandchildren. My wife keeps us up on

Interstate 81 a lot. I can tell you where every mile marker is.

Joe: Is that most of your travel?

Chris: Most of our travel, yeah. Like a year-and-a-half ago, we went to Greece.

We haven't gone for a long time. This year, hopefully, we are going to go for a

couple of weeks down to Florida and relax a little bit. I think the children

might come down if they have some kind of a break. If we're not in Pennsylvania

and visiting my daughter and my son-in-law, we're up in Washington, D.C.,

visiting my son and daughter-in-law and visiting the grandchildren. The nice

thing about D.C. is during good weather, I mean, we were on the Mall, we're in

the museums. The grandchildren just absolutely love the museums and the Mall. 00:45:00That's a good part. Hopefully this year, we're gonna visit the White House a

little bit.

Joe: Yeah? [Laughter]

Chris: To see the present tenant. [Laughter] Joe, I may have a conflict in about

ten minutes here.

Joe: Yeah. Are we running up against it?

Chris: No, we're good! We've got fifteen minutes.

Joe: Okay.

Chris: I would like to have another session, maybe, if you're not tired. I'd

like to bring Maria over for a little bit to express her opinion. Then we can

wrap up this whole thing.

Joe: That would be great!

Chris: Maybe starting in January or something and we can wrap it up, because you

guys are busy during the holidays.

Joe: Yeah. The library is open for a week after finals are over, but then we

close for the holidays.

Chris: But we'll be here all month of January, but gone in February.

Joe: Okay.

Chris: Look into your schedules and see what it's like.

Joe: Maybe we'll do something early in January before students come back.

Chris: But having said all that, this endeavor, to me, has 00:46:00been most

educational, informative. I've enjoyed talking to both of you. It's nice to be

able to express my feelings in a way that I'm not intimidated-- or I don't think

I am, anyway.

Joe: That's good. I'm glad you feel that way and that you're comfortable.

Chris: I've told some of my friends about this, and eventually maybe they'll be

able to hear it all through the internet, or you'll do whatever you do--

Joe: Well--

Chris: Something they can click on, whatever.

Joe: If we do one more session, then we'll have something like six or seven, and

we will give it all to you and give you an opportunity--

Chris: But you can have your own record?

Joe: Yeah, and then we'll keep it here at Special Collections.

Chris: If somebody wants to hear about the old Greek's restaurant or the Cellar

Restaurant, can they go into Special Collections and click onto something like that?

Joe: Yeah, they will be made accessible both digitally--

Chris: Through the internet.

Joe: You could probably do it at Special 00:47:00Collections, but you can certainly do

it in the internet.

Chris: Okay, great!

Joe: Not immediately though.

Chris: No, of course.

Joe: Someone will also transcribe all of these so anyone could come in and have

access to the transcripts and just read what we've said.

Chris: Right. Yeah, that's fine. That's good. Because I've told several people,

even my former priest, as a matter of fact, I just talked to him. His name is

Father Nick.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: Congratulate him on his name today. [Laughter] I told him I'm on my way

down to Virginia Tech library and he wanted to know what I was doing. Anyway,

this has been great, guys. I really enjoyed this very much.

Joe: Yeah, we've had a great time too.

Chris: It's been okay?

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: On a final note, I want to say to my son, Happy Ágios Nikólaos day. [Laughs]

Joe: One last question, though.

Chris: Sure!

Joe: Does your son Nick have any children?

Chris: He's got two.

Joe: Did he name one of them Chris? 'Cause you seem to be skipping Nick and 00:48:00 Chris--

Chris: Yes, he did. He named the older one Chris. [Laughter] And named the

second one, three-year-old, Sophia, 'cause my son always loved the name Sophia,

the Greek name Sophia, Sophos, meaning wise. Sophos is masculine. Sophia is

feminine. Little Sophia has got everybody wrapped around her little finger. With

the exception of Sophia, my son kept up the tradition, and my daughter kept up

the tradition. Her firstborn was a girl named, instead of Chris, named her

Christine, and her second was named after her husband's father, Peter, after my

son-in-law's father. My in-law. We did keep up the tradition.

Joe: But how far back does the tradition go? Your grandfather was Chris, your

father was Nick, you are Chris, your son is Nick, and his son is Chris.

Chris: It goes back forever. The more children you have, the further it goes

into the generation. You can name 00:49:00it after a great grandmother or a godfather or somebody.

Joe: Yeah.

Chris: So it just depends on how many children you have.

Joe: But it's been the regular Chris-Nick-Chris-Nick series for as far back as

you know?

Chris: Yeah. As far as I know.

Joe: Wow.

Chris: The godfather tradition is like in the Roman Catholic Church, where the

godfather takes over the spiritual upbringing of the child till the child

becomes an adult. As you know, being a Roman Catholic, not the godfather of the Godfather.

Joe: Right. Not the mafia. [Laughter]

Chris: Okay, guys. God bless you all. Thank you so much. [Laughter]

Joe: Thank you. [Laughter]

Chris: I think this was fun today.

Joe: Yeah, yeah.

[End of interview]