Ren Harman: So good morning. This is Ren Harman, the Project Director for VT
Stories. Today is December 11th, 2017 at about 9 AM. We are in Burruss Hall on
the campus of Virginia Tech with a very special guest. This is the only time I
will prompt you. If you can just state in a complete sentence my name is, when
you were born, and where you were born.
Charlie Phlegar: My name is Charlie Phlegar. I was born on November 1st, 1956 in
Pearisburg, Virginia.
Ren: What years did you attend Virginia Tech?
Charlie: I attended Tech from 1974 through '78, although I didn't officially get
out until March of 1979, and then returned and got a master's degree in the mid
to late '80s. I think it was the '86-'87 timeframe.
Ren:
00:01:00Right. So you said you were born in Pearisburg; did you grow up in Pearisburg?Charlie: I did not. I lived there a couple of years. My father moved us to
Bluefield, West Virginia where he worked for Appalachian Power Company, and we
moved to Blacksburg in 1967 when he was recruited to work in Admissions at
Virginia Tech.
Ren: I grew up in Richlands.
Charlie: Oh you did?
Ren: Yeah.
Charlie: So you know the area.
Ren: I know the area, and my parents actually have a place on the river in
Narrows, so I spent almost every summer in Narrows and Pearisburg. So you said
your father was recruited to work at Virginia Tech in Admissions. Can you talk a
little bit about your dad?
Charlie: Well, he was a graduate in the engineering program at Virginia Tech
Class of 1952, you know, an avid Virginia Tech athletic supporter,
00:02:00and somebodywho just kind of grew up loving Virginia Tech. So many of our family members had
gone to Tech, although his father and mother did not go to Tech.
Ren: Okay. He was a member of the Cadets?
Charlie: He was a member of the Corps of Cadets. Played in the Highty-Tighties,
played trumpet in the Highty-Tighties, and came to Tech in '67, kind of his
dream job to come back to Blacksburg, still lives in Blacksburg, 88 now and
doing great.
Ren: In the late 1960s what was your first memory of seeing the campus and
seeing the University? What can you remember about that day?
Charlie: Well, that day I can remember it, the day we moved here, hopping on a
bike and said just be back by 6 o'clock for dinner. It was one of those type of
communities where you could take off. There
00:03:00were no cell phones. I got on mybike. I can remember driving to Gilbert Linkous School just tooling around and
they were having what they called a bike rodeo, where you participate in a bike
course and do different things. Lo and behold I entered and won that competition
for my age group, and that was a positive fun memory. I can remember riding home
being thrilled that we were in this community. I always wanted to be in
Blacksburg. As a kid my dad would bring us back to football events. I was in the
first game in Lane Stadium. I went to games in the old Miles Stadium. But it was
something that we did often, drive to Blacksburg for football, occasionally for
basketball, although that was more difficult. So, I knew a lot about the campus
before we moved here.
Ren: Can you talk about your mother a little bit?
Charlie: Yeah. My mom passed
00:04:00away 25 years ago of pancreatic cancer at age 60,and she never went to college. She got a two-year degree in nursing and was a
nurse and grew up active in the nursing profession. Although she stayed at home
and raised the family while we were in grade school and high school, I think she
did go back to work after we were in college. She was a close partner with my
dad in all of this and a big fan of Virginia Tech.
Ren: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
Charlie: I have an older brother, Archie, who also is a graduate of Virginia
Tech in engineering.
Ren: How much older?
Charlie: He is three years older and a younger sister who is also a graduate of
Virginia Tech, Beth. Archie lives in West Virginia and works for Appalachian
Power Company, and my sister is in Charlottesville, Virginia, and has lived
there for 35 years
00:05:00and is happy in that area and a proud Hokie to be in Wahoo country.Ren: Right. So you come from a long line of Hokies. I believe in some of my
research 1 of 9. Is that an accurate up-to-date number?
Charlie: It is probably more than that. My dad's brother went to Virginia Tech.
All of his siblings went to Virginia Tech, so a lot of cousins and uncles. It's
all Tech graduates, so there are probably 30 or 40 Virginia Tech graduates in
our immediate family.
Ren: Yeah, that sounds like my family as well. So you attended Gilbert Linkous
Elementary School?
Charlie: Yeah.
Ren: And then Blacksburg Middle I'm guessing?
Charlie: Blacksburg Middle and Blacksburg High School. Blacksburg High School at
the time was on Main Street. I was the last class to graduate from Blacksburg
High School.
Ren: What kind of sports or extracurricular activities, what kind of things did
you do in high school?
Charlie:
00:06:00I played baseball in high school. I wasn't very good. I played secondbase and you know I worked full-time in high school and college. I worked in the
men's clothing store [00:06:16 Argabrights] which was downtown on the corner of
College and Main. I worked at Davison's clothing store, and I also was one of
the first non-Greek individuals to work in the Greek Cellar, and I think was the
first, I'm proud to say I was kind of the non-Greek that they let work the cash
register behind the bar. And what was one of the greatest jobs I ever had was
being a waiter and bartender in the Greek Cellar.
Ren: What was Blacksburg like during that time for interested people who don't
necessarily remember Blacksburg during that
00:07:00 era?Charlie: I mean Blacksburg is a better place today as far as all the amenities
go, but it was a small town. It was a town that you could leave at 3 o'clock on
your bike and come back to dinner time and not worry about it. I think it
actually is still a town like that today. It doesn't feel a whole lot different
today than it did, although we have more stores and more people and nicer homes.
But it was a beautiful town. The campus was a place which was a playground for
people that lived here. We would play basketball in the coliseum during the
holiday break, and the people that managed the main floor of the coliseum they
would let us sneak on and play 5 on 5 basketball on the main floor.
Ren: That's pretty cool.
Charlie: That was really cool. The back gyms of the coliseum is where we played
our sports and basketball.
00:08:00We also got in the steam tunnel. Most people areaware that there is a channel of steam tunnels that run out throughout this
campus, and some of my colleagues and I would get in the steam tunnel from time
to time and walkaround. Not a very fun and pleasant place to be, but as a young
kid pretty cool. In the late 60s it was interesting because a lot of the
protests from the Vietnam War was going on. There were the racial issues that
the country was facing during the time. Blacksburg and Tech were facing them as
well, and you know I kind of had a front row seat to that. My parents didn't
seem very concerned that there were any violence going on. There were protests.
There were occasional buildings being burnt down. I can remember that. There
were trucks loading students in the back of a U-Haul or an
00:09:0018-wheel truck takingthem out of Burruss Hall, but there wasn't the fear of as a young kid I was
going to get in trouble watching any of that.
I also remember the streaking when streaking was really popular and just how
bizarre that was to watch college kids running around naked back and forth
around. That was a sight to see as a youngster.
Ren: When you were in high school and you started thinking about college, was
there any doubt of where you would go?
Charlie: There really was no doubt I was going to Virginia Tech. I never thought
about going anywhere else. I was a decent student, an average student. I didn't
have my sights on an ivy league school. It wasn't even in my thought process, so
I was going to Virginia Tech.
Ren: Your dad
00:10:00being a three-time graduate of the University and I'm sureeducation was important in your house, what subjects were you interested in and
what kind of things were you interested in?
Charlie: I was interested in business. I was decent in math, but I really wasn't
a great student. I didn't take school as serious as I probably should have. I
was working full-time. I was successful in the jobs that I had. I worked at the
Blacksburg Country Club in the maintenance course and I worked up in the pro
shop and the food and beverage. I had my own bartending service going. I was
networking and making money and having fun and school was there, but it wasn't
as a priority as it probably should have been.
Ren: When you came to Virginia Tech did you declare a major
00:11:00your freshman year?Charlie: Yeah, I went into business immediately. It was kind of what I was
interested in doing.
Ren: Where did you live freshman year?
Charlie: You know, interesting, I had an apartment above Argabrite's, so the
building that I think Sharkeys is in now was Argabrite's where I worked. And the
owner of that building, the owner of Argabrite's allowed me to fix a little
apartment above Argabrite's, so I kind of lived there. I lived at home some. It
was a fun time for me.
Ren: So I always find it interesting if people are from Blacksburg and they
attend Virginia Tech, I'm always curious as to what kind of the relationship is,
because you're not really away from mom and dad. Mom and dad is just down the
road. Was that probably a good thing for you to have them close?
Charlie: It was. I mean I don't think I was
00:12:00mature enough to go off to collegetoo far away. It probably would have been good for me. We have a close family.
We did things together. I would go home and do laundry. I would have Sunday
dinner. I was close to my parents, so it was a good thing, but I had my space.
If I needed to be away I could. Probably my dad helped me too much with parking
tickets or whether I had a course I needed to get. It was easy.
Ren: I would have been the same way had my family lived in Blacksburg. I would
have went home for dinner and done laundry there.
Charlie: Yeah.
Ren: When you started here in business management were there some notable
professors or advisors that you can particularly remember that were influential?
Charlie: I wish I could, but not really.
00:13:00There were some decent people. Myfamily and my dad because we grew up here, so many of the professors in
different disciplines knew our family, knew me. I did get to know people in the
athletic program, athletic coaches. Jerry Claiborne was a friend. His kids were
a friend. Don DeVoe and the basketball coaches were people that I knew pretty
well. Charlie Forbes was a mentor. He's deceased now, but he actually had my job
at Virginia Tech many years ago, but he would help and guide me about different
things. Paul Torgersen was somebody I knew very well. I dated one of President
Lavery's daughters, so I knew the Lavery family very well, and then just all of
the names
00:14:00that you could think of, Ray Smoot and Tom Tiller, Buddy Russell.These were all people who had an influence on me and people that you would seem
them in church. You would see them in restaurants. You would see them on campus,
so I had a lot of eyes making sure I didn't deviate too far.
Ren: I was going to say, Buddy Russell and Tom Tiller are both people that we've
had the pleasure to interview. So, a lot of these people on campus were kind of
keeping an eye on you in a way and making sure like you said you didn't deviate
too much.
Charlie: Right.
Ren: What are some of your favorite memories or experiences from your time as an
undergraduate student?
Charlie: I think that always because I love athletics so much the athletic
events were fun. We weren't very good. People forget that
00:15:00it was a struggle backthen, but games were fun. We enjoyed the whole, there was not a big tailgate
scene, but people went to games and enjoyed it. Our basketball teams were pretty
decent and that was a lot of fun. One of those athletic memories was that
Virginia Tech participated in the Metro Conference at the time in our senior
year in college. The Metro Conference Tournament I believe it was in Memphis,
but it might have been in Louisville. This was in the winter of '79, and Tech
was in that tournament. I think I got the idea of renting a Winnebago and we
rented a Winnebago from somebody in Roanoke, and 11 of us got in that Winnebago
to drive west. And I can
00:16:00remember what an exciting time that was, and I wasgoing to drive the whole way, and I remember getting in the van and driving
about an hour and looking back at my buddy who was also a Blacksburg High School
and a person who went to Virginia Tech, and said, Dan Frith, a local attorney in
Roanoke, I said after about 45 minutes, "I'm really tired, you need to drive,"
and he was not happy with that. But we got out there and it was such a good time
and Virginia Tech won the tournament.
Ren: Oh wow.
Charlie: It was a huge upset. What a fun positive time. And we had to drive all
the way back to Blacksburg and take exams and I really needed to get back to get
some help to pass this one exam. I just needed to make a D on the test to pass
the class, but the Winnebago broke down, and it was not a pretty picture because
we had to get help getting the
00:17:00Winnebago fixed. I was stressing out because Idid not have the textbooks that I needed to prepare for this exam. I think we
got back at about 11 o'clock at night. The exam was the next morning. I studied
all night. I did pass barely and graduated, but it was kind of a tough, good and
bad, but that was a real strong memory of Virginia Tech at the time. Of course
there were so many, buildings were being built and people were being hired.
There were some exciting moments.
Ren: We mentioned earlier your dad was a member of the Corps of Cadets. Did you
ever have an interest in joining the Corps of Cadets or did he ever kind of
suggest it?
Charlie: I had zero interest. In hindsight I regret it. It would have been good
for me, but at that time the Corps was not that popular. It was dwindling. I
think a lot of people felt the Corps would
00:18:00go away. At that period we werecoming out of the tough Vietnam era. The Corps was at an all-time low. It was
not popular on campus. It was not as respected as it is today, so no, no
interest to join it.
Ren: On the flipside of that previous question, what are some difficult
experiences or memories that you remember from your time?
Charlie: I think that some of the toughest times, I didn't do as well as in the
course work that I thought I should have done, and I wasn't as motivated and
interested and that was difficult from time to time. That freshman was a wake-up
call. I was lazy I think. I didn't study like I should have and that was tough.
That first year was tough. I kind of got my act together after the first
00:19:00 yearand a half, but as we all know you don't perform well and your QCA is low you've
got to work really hard to get it back. And then a really tragic tragic thing
happened my very close friend, best man in my wedding, John [00:19:20 Dryling],
his parents were tragically murdered in Blacksburg. It was just a really tough
tough time. His sister was kidnapped. There was a very public shootout. They
captured the people who murdered the dear friends of mine and parents of my
closest friends, and that was just one of those tough tough times that you never
get over. We've remained very close friends. He was best man in our wedding and
all, but that was one of those tough tough moments. And that was the President
of
00:20:00my fraternity, Delta Kappa Epsilon, and we had for the most part positivememories, but you would have things where somebody would die, the close friend
death in the fraternity and that was tough to deal with.
And then I didn't understand it then, I understand it more now, the mental
illnesses that are masked through alcohol and other things that were kind of odd
for a person in my place. And I had to navigate some of those times as well.
Some of the tough times on campus, I'm sure there were, but it was more personal
drama. Grandparents that passed away during that time and some of the reality of
your
00:21:00parents getting older. This world that you thought was kind of utopia, youstart to understand as a more grown adult the good and bad of your own family,
those things. It's the maturing process, which I still think is pretty relevant today.
Ren: Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie: I think that those 17 to 22-year-old age group and being in college and
growing up is maybe some of the more important things that colleges do for us.
Ren: And I think that the 30-something thousand students on this campus will be
happy to know that the Vice President for Advancement for Virginia Tech
struggled with exams.
Charlie: Oh gosh.
Ren: Had his own issues with classes.
Charlie: Yeah. Absolutely.
Ren: I think that might be refreshing for some. I want to ask you about you're a
member of a DKE. So I interviewed Mickey Hayes a few months ago. What kind of
things did you participate
00:22:00with the fraternity in terms of events orphilanthropic things?
Charlie: The intermural sports programs were important. I played all of them
through the fraternity system, and that was a way to make friends and enjoy that
part of my life. The social aspects of it were fun, in hindsight maybe too much
fun. The philanthropy and the type of charitable work we did were things like
through the food bank. We did a lot of caring for homes around the fraternity,
some of the elderly that lived near us. We would take care of their yard and
check on them, so it was an active way to, and as an officer in the fraternity I
got involved in the IFC
00:23:00and got to make friends with people and observe peoplethat exposed me to different ways of fault. Bannon, who is a controversial
figure today was head of the IFC and was a very active person when I was in
school. It was fun to kind of in hindsight watch his career, both positive and
negative, depending on how you look at it. But he was a pretty powerful person
at Virginia Tech during the time, so I got exposed to a lot of people from
around the country that as a person growing up in Blacksburg would never have met.
Ren: Did you have many interactions or any type of relationship? We're talking
about Steve Bannon of course.
Charlie: Yeah. Steve Bannon, not personally, I didn't know him well. I've
observed him.
Ren: He was the SGA President, right?
Charlie: Yeah, and
00:24:00he was a really smart guy. He was a guy who knew how to makethings happen. I watched him do things. He was funny. He was a lady's man at the
time. He was a surfer kind of looking guy with blonde hair and the ladies really
were attracted to him, and that was kind of interesting to watch. But he was
smart. He was politically savvy, and you could tell at the time. I didn't follow
his career or anything until he popped back up recently, but that doesn't
surprise me.
Ren: So you graduated in 1978?
Charlie: I claim '78. I officially got out in March of '79.
Ren: With a Bachelor of Science Degree in Business Management.
Charlie: Right.
Ren: Where did you go after you graduated?
Charlie:
00:25:00I interviewed. I studied a management degree. I interviewed severalcompanies. Probably the Armstrong Corporation is the one I remember the most. I
didn't get an offer from them. I ended up taking off for six months with a buddy
of mine and got in an old van and toured the country, and it was a fantastic
experience, something that you would never even think about doing again. But we
did it and we went all over the States. This gentleman I was with was going to
get married when he came back. He did get married and is still married to the
same person and they are dear friends of ours. But to travel for six months with
somebody was quite an experience. We had good times. I can remember going days
without ever talking to each other, so that was that experience.
And I
00:26:00came back and worked at the Blacksburg Country Club as the AssistantGeneral Manager of the Blacksburg Country Club, a great job. A job I needed at
the time. I through that was offered to go and open a racquetball and health
club and be a small investor in that club, be the general manager of that club
in Martinsville, Virginia. At the time Martinsville was booming. Racquetball was
booming and the health club was booming. We were flourishing for the first three
years. I was there for about three years, but you kind of wake up and realize
ah, I don't think I want to be a health club manager the rest of my life. So at
25 I came back to Blacksburg. Always been interested in athletic administration,
and came back and
00:27:00talked to Bill Dooley, who was then the athletic administratorand head football coach; it was a dual job. And asked him if he would hire me as
a graduate assistant. He did. He hired me and put me into sports marketing with
a guy named Jeff Charles who was the voice of the Hokies, and Jeff is now the
voice of the Pirates at East Carolina University. And my first job was to sell
season football tickets. And so that summer they sent me out with a car around
Southwest Virginia and West Virginia and people didn't buy season football
tickets. I sold 322 season tickets and they thought I was the greatest salesman
that had ever come to Blacksburg. So I worked in marketing, sports marketing for
00:28:00Tech, a great experience.Ren: So the assistant director of athletics for sports marketing.
Charlie: Yep, and that was a glorious title, but I was a grad student and it
paid for my graduate degree, which was awesome. That's how I got my master's
degree at Tech.
Ren: Master's degree in education administration in 1987?
Charlie: Right.
Ren: About that same time something else happened in your life, correct? You met
your wife, right?
Charlie: I did. I was finishing up my master's degree and had actually left
athletics, and it had been hard as a graduate student in the Alumni Association.
Ren: Overseeing chapter operations?
Charlie: Overseeing chapter operations, and Tom Tiller and Buddy Russell had
given me an opportunity to get a job there in my first kind of real job. And at
the
00:29:00time I was overseeing chapters, and I was in the Call Center one night wherea young lady was making phone calls asking for money. At the time I think I was
flirting with her, in hindsight I was flirting with her, and I challenged her if
she could double the pledge of the person she was calling to I would give her a
dollar, and she did. She doubled the pledge I think from $10 to $20. Of course I
had no cash with me, but I had my checkbook with me and I pulled out my
checkbook and I wrote her, Karen [Barch], a check for $1, gave it to her, which
she cashed the next day. I really never interacted with her much. I was older,
she was younger. You know, as Buddy Russell would say, "Really not appropriate
Charlie." But she was working in Donaldson Brown at the front desk, so I would
see
00:30:00her occasionally. I would say hello to her. As time would have it, I wasgraduating and was going off to my first job and one of my colleagues they were
having a going away party for me, and I said, "You know, this girl Karen she's
the kind of girl that a guy like me should marry one day." They invited her to
my going away party I think as a set-up, and somehow the party ended, and we
were there together, and I said, "Let's go have a beer or something." I don't
remember what it was. It was one of those times where you're with somebody and
we talked from 10 PM to 6 AM in the morning and hit it off, and the rest is kind
of history. We dated long distance
00:31:00for two years and got married.Ren: So she is a 1988 graduate?
Charlie: An engineering graduate, yeah.
Ren: You mentioned his name earlier, Charlie Forbes, what kind of mentor was he
to you?
Charlie: Well Charlie was Vice President of the University in the same job I
have today. I was working in Alumni Affairs and I enjoyed it. They were doing
Tech's First Capital campaign, a $50-million effort in which Charlie Forbes was
overseeing. And they allowed me to go on a couple of the regional outreach
programs. I grew up in kind of a middle-class environment. It was the first time
I had ever seen or been around people with money and it was kind of interesting.
There are people out there that have money that can make gifts at this level.
You know
00:32:00Charlie one day we were driving in the car and he said to me, "Youcould do well in this business. I think you have the background for this
business, but you really need to get away from Blacksburg. You need to see other
things. You need to experience other things. And he kept encouraging me to do
that, and really said, "One of the ways you could do that would go into
consulting. I think you would be good at consulting." And he opened the door for
me to get an interview with a firm, the largest consulting firm at the time
called Ketchum. And I got the job and got into this profession as a consultant,
really not knowing a lot, but they taught me a lot. Buddy Russell and Charlie
and Tom Tiller really guided my early career and made it possible for me to get
00:33:00into this profession.Ren: Right. So you were working at Ketchum; when did you then get moved to ECU?
Charlie: I worked at Ketchum and was moving around the country a lot doing
different capital gain projects. Karen was in her senior year in college, so we
were just dating. We were engaged for about nine months, and we got married kind
of a year or two after she graduated. I was living in at that time Charlotte and
she had moved to Charlotte and life was great, but we were in the process of
starting a family. And it was one of those things where you realize you don't
want to wake up -- I was traveling every week, all over the country, and so I
00:34:00just said I needed to settle down a little bit. And East Carolina had anopening. They needed somebody that had the experience that I had. I interviewed,
got the job and we moved to Greenville, North Carolina, which was a blessing in
many ways. It was a place that embraced me. I was able to learn a lot. We had
our first child in Greenville, North Carolina, but only stayed there two years
before moving on.
Ren: After you left East Carolina where did you go after that?
Charlie: I had a job offer at the University of South Carolina, was offered the
Associate Vice President job. The Vice President that hired me at the time left
shortly after I was there for about a year and a half, so they promoted me into
the VP job.
00:35:00It was a great opportunity. Was I prepared for the job? Maybe, butthe opportunity was there. The President and I got along. They were doing a
campaign. We were very successful in a $250-million effort. I stayed five years.
It was a terrific five years. We loved Columbia. We had two more children who
were born in Columbia, South Carolina. It was just a great opportunity.
Ren: To what you said, this campaign started with a $250-million goal and ended
doubling that, correct, at 500-grand?
Charlie: They ended up raising 5-million, doubling the effort, and we had some
magnificent gifts, a couple of $25-million gifts that really changed the course
of fundraising at Columbia, but also that effort.
Ren: You were
00:36:00talking about children. You have three daughters, correct?Charlie: Right.
Ren: What are their ages?
Charlie: Casey is 24 and Lauren is 22, and my youngest is 18.
Ren: Great. My wife taught at Blacksburg High School for several years and I
asked her if she had any with the last name and she couldn't remember. She
taught mostly freshman and sophomore, so she taught therefor about four or five
years and now she's a middle school teacher at Shawsville Middle. She's working
on her doctorate as well, so she wanted some middle school experience. I have a
10 and a 7-year-old at [Gibbs], so I'm raising a family in Blacksburg.
Charlie: Well it's a fantastic place to raise a family as you know.
Ren: Yeah.
Charlie: One of the strengths we have as we recruit people to Blacksburg is that
people with families they want to be here.
Ren: Yeah, it's really nice. We really love it. We bought a house a few years
ago and I don't think we're going anywhere
00:37:00any time soon I hope.Charlie: It's awesome.
Ren: Yeah. After you left the University of South Carolina, was it around 2000?
Is that when you started at Johns Hopkins?
Charlie: Yeah, late 1999 I think I went to Johns Hopkins. It went an interesting
time I had met the Vice President of Johns Hopkins six years earlier when I was
working for -- actually when I was working late with Ketchum I met him. As I was
pitching some business hew as also a consultant for Mississippi State
University. He was helping them with a project and I was trying to get business
from them, and he liked me. He liked what I was about and he began to mentor me.
I try to teach people and my kids
00:38:00that getting mentors and building a network ofpeople who can help you with your career is so very important. Well, this
gentleman kind of became my mentor, and as I had been at South Carolina for five
years and I was setting my sights on the next kind of career move, the next
larger institution, he was encouraging me to get into some searches. I went out
west and interviewed at a job at the University of Washington, and I was really
really prepared for that. I hit it off well with the President. I'm not sure I
was ready for that job. That was one of the top jobs in the country at the time,
and they narrowed it down to two people, two finalists, and I lost that job to a
woman from the
00:39:00University of Southern California. She was quite talented andprobably deserved the job, but it was the first kind of wake-up call that they
weren't comfortable giving a job to a southerner who had only grown up in the
south, had only worked at southern schools, had a really deep southern accent at
the time. And it was part of the puzzle of man, and then I realized I didn't
quite know what I didn't know.
Interesting though, because of that Johns Hopkins had an opening and my mentor
said, "You know you ought to come and look at what we're trying to do and it may
be something that you're interested in doing." And I did interview, and I did
get the job and I accepted the job
00:40:00as an Associate Vice President at JohnsHopkins. I was a VP at South Carolina. The day I accepted the job to Hopkins the
President of the University of Washington called me back and said that the
person that they had hired from Southern California was not going to work out
after a month and they wanted to offer me the job, would I come take the job.
And it was one of those kind of tough moments where I had to make a decision,
and I made the right decision. I said, "No, I've made a commitment to Hopkins.
I've made a commitment to a mentor." As much as the job title and money and all
was so much better than what I was going to be doing, I was going to honor the
commitment I made to Hopkins.
And as it turned out it was a brilliant move because I didn't know a lot.
00:41:00I hadworked at institutions, good institutions, but I had never seen the scope of a
big institution. I had never interacted with truly wealthy people, northern
elites so to speak that had worked in the leaders of some of the titans of
industry and political people who are really close to the power. And that was
just a really wake-up educational experience, and so I worked there for 51/2
years at Hopkins, which prepared me for the ultimate job that I got at Cornell.
Ren: At Hopkins you led their $3.5-billion campaign, correct?
Charlie: Right.
Ren: So, I want to ask you -- ECU, University of South Carolina, Johns Hopkins,
and then eventually at Cornell,
00:42:00how difficult was it moving around with having afamily, having young children?
Charlie: I think it was difficult. I have a spouse who is amazingly supportive
and interested in new things and new challenges, and so that made it easier. The
moves that we made happened at the ages where there was kind of a natural break
and a natural transition. I think it turned out to be really positive for my
kids because they adjust pretty quickly. But what we have found even in this
move to Blacksburg, it takes about two or 21/2 years there's something that
happens in that timeframe after you move that pieces begin to fall in place. You
start to understand the culture and the dynamics, so it was always
00:43:00difficult forthe first two years. But it helped that I had a really talented spouse that was
wonderful with a family and wonderful with how we functioned as a team.
Ren: My dad always used to stay behind every strong man there's even a stronger woman.
Charlie: There's of course a lot of truth to that.
Ren: Yeah. And he always said that about my mom because he was always away
working. There's five of us and I'm the youngest, and there's 18 years between
myself and my older sister, so my dad would always say that about my mom. So the
move to Cornell University, which you started there in 2006, correct? What was
that experience like in the nine years and you led their campaign to raise
$6-billion? I know you said that one of your proudest accomplishments is the
Cornell Tech project on Roosevelt Island.
00:44:00Those nine years what was that like?Charlie: Very very positive years. I had a close relationship with the President
David Skorton. He was terrific as a fundraiser, which made my job easier, so
that was a positive experience. The land grant mission of Cornell, the culture
of Cornell, the types of people that are there are very similar to Virginia Tech
and when I grew up. Radically different than Hopkins, where I didn't quite fit
the culture at Hopkins and probably never would fit that culture. I was more of
a land grant type place. Cornell was such a positive place. The Town of Ithaca,
the community that we lived in, the natural beauty of the place, it was all
fantastic. We liked to snow ski. There was a
00:45:00ski resort 25 minutes away and itwas just a positive place. My kids loved the school system. They embraced
everything it had to offer, so it was great. I think we would still be living
there had not a series of things fallen into place to be here. One of the top
two or three jobs in my profession I had that, and so that was wonderful.
I got to know and interact and be in New York City, a place that I dreaded
before then. I got to make it feel almost like a small town to me, so that was
really cool. They had a lot of really important people. Internationally, I
traveled internationally a lot, so it exposed me to all types of people. It
opened my mind to different
00:46:00cultures, different races, different ways of lookingat things. It broadened me as a person like I had never been challenged before.
So needless to say it was an amazing nine years.
Ren: I saw some pictures of you with Mr. Bill Gates from your time at Cornell.
Charlie: Yeah, you spend time with people like Bill Gates and with Ratan Tata.
You know these type of people are just amazing and those are once in a lifetime experiences.
Ren: So, as you said you would still be there if a series of events hadn't
happened. How did the process of coming back to your hometown, and I think I saw
in some research I was doing is they referred to you as Blacksburg's native son,
which I liked.
Charlie: Yeah.
Ren: What was the process of coming back to these mountains?
Charlie: Tom
00:47:00Tiller had stayed in touch with me over that nine-year period, andnot to come back, I had always had a dream of being at Virginia Tech and being
in the job that my mentor Charlie Forbes had, but I gave up on that dream you
know, 15-20 years ago. I just didn't see it happening. And then Tom Tiller about
a year before any of this happened he just said, "You know you ought to come
back to Blacksburg one day," and I said, "Tom, there's just no way. I have the
best job in the world. I'm being paid a lot of money. Tech just can't do that.
It's just not going to work out." Well, things started to happen at Cornell. The
President that I was close to had decided to leave and take the top job at the
Smithsonian. I was head of
00:48:00the search committee for the new President. I likedthe new President that they were bringing in a lot. That new President was
selected. David Skorton was leaving. I started to feel maybe a little bit of
uneasiness. The campaign that we were doing was coming to a close, so that big
effort was just about over. We had won the bid for Cornell Tech. We had secured
a $350-million gift. I mean all of these benchmarks of things that had happened
seemed to be behind me, and what I was looking forward to go forward was a
little less certain. I was getting to be an age where I've got to start thinking
about what my future would look like. Both Karen and I did not want to live in
New York. It's a very expensive place to
00:49:00live, especially on a fixed income ifyou ever retire.
So we started having thoughts, and about that time enters Tim Sands trying to
put a team together. "This is what I'm trying to do. Your background is
picture-perfect for what we're trying to do." And I said, "I agree. I don't
think you'll find a better person for this job than me, but, you know, here's
the problem," and it was a problem, I couldn't walk away from the situation that
I was in. We started talking and trying to figure out how we could make all this
work, what Tech was trying to accomplish, what could I do to help it. Over a
series of many many months and lots of
00:50:00conversations and lots of interviews it happened.Ren: I want to ask you, when you told your dad that you were coming back to
Blacksburg, when you got the job offer and signed the contract whatever that
process was like.
Charlie: I didn't share with him through the process because I really in my
heart of hearts did not think it would happen and I didn't want to build it up,
so he didn't know. He may have gotten some hints that something was going on,
but I think eventually when I thought well maybe something could happen, I told
him I was coming into town to talk to the President. And of course he was happy.
They were very sad when we left Baltimore and went north because we were taking
the grandkids and moving pretty far away, and so they were very pleased and surprised.
Ren:
00:51:00Yeah. You said working for Virginia Tech is a dream coming true. Can youtalk a little bit about your role as the University's Vice President for
Advancement? Kind of the responsibilities of the job and some changes that
you've kind of made since you've been here at the University in this job.
Charlie: Well, Tim Sands was the one that envisioned this advancement model,
which was the combination of bringing together alumni development and University
relations under one umbrella. That's the process and that process has gone
extremely well over the first two years, but there was a lot of work. I
recruited and hired lots of people. A lot of key people have come to work,
people I've worked with in the past, many from Cornell who have come, a couple
more from Cornell that are on their way here that will
00:52:00even add to theexperience level. But good quality people that were here, but people that needed
to understand what the advancement model looked like, why we were doing it, the
structure we were putting into place.
Most of what we are doing, and we have had great results early on, but I think
the long-term results of this model will be played out in the ten years going
forward. I will be retired when the real benefits of this effort play out
because of the geographic demographics of Virginia Tech, the number of young
alumni that Tech have and the way we are structured to engage, embrace new
technologies, new ways of doing things that just take time.
Ren: What does it take
00:53:00in terms of, what do you have to bring to the table to bein a position to lead these campaigns at all these major universities, and then
to come back to Virginia Tech and $100-million in fundraising in 2015-2016,
$162-million in fundraising? The endowment is now worth more than $1-billion.
Fewer than 100 colleges in the nation have this. What do you have to, as a
person who kind of oversees a lot of these things, what skills would you advise
people who are starting in this profession to take up?
Charlie: Well, I do think you have to have some mentors who have experience and
know what they're doing. And then I would encourage people to get in at an entry
level at universities that have a very strong program. And some universities
have great programs, and some don't have such great programs. And then you want
to work
00:54:00for people that know what they are doing and have had that experienceand care about your career. So we are building a culture with experienced people
who have been in and have seen good programs. And so, you know, that's the first
thing. I have had a lot of experience at really good programs, and so I know
what to do. It doesn't mean I can do it all, and you have to kind of build a
culture of philanthropy, build a culture of advancement, and you have to do it
within the scope of what you have to work with.
Ren: Right.
Charlie: And so that's the process we're in now, is educating people what it
needs, putting the tools into place to make sure people understand the value of
a Tech education, the importance of Virginia Tech in the
00:55:00State of Virginia. Andthere's some gaps in this and those were some of the kind of disappointing
things I've experienced early on where we have this very high affinity rate the
Gallup shows. One of the highest in the country, people love Virginia Tech, yet
we had one of the very lowest giving rates of any university. And so that
disconnect is troubling and that's the piece that we're working on. And that
takes time and it takes educating people. It takes building a culture when the
students are here as undergraduates, so that as they become alumnus they
understand why they need to give back at every level and any level.
Ren: That's fascinating. I was getting ready to ask you that about one of the
reasons VT Stories was initially started was when President Sands and Dr. Laura
00:56:00Sands were traveling and they were hearing all these stories about Virginia Techand the universities and then the gallop survey came out. But you said surveys
indicate we Hokies have a great affinity for Virginia Tech, but there's no way
to hide the truth that we lag well behind our peers and the percentage of alumni
who actually donate. In 2022 before Virginia Tech's 150th Anniversary we are
trying to get to that 22% mark, as you've said and President Sands said in the
State of the University address.
And also in doing some research I was reading articles and articles from you,
and you talked about having to share our story more broadly, telling our story.
That is kind of the goal of VT Stories, what is the story of Virginia Tech both
good and bad throughout history? I know there's a lot of things that we do that
necessarily doesn't speak to what you are trying to get at, but just asking you,
what do you think Virginia Tech's story is?
Charlie: Well, you know, at the core it is an institution that is serving the
State of Virginia. It's educating individuals to go back in, most of the
students do go back into the State of Virginia and become citizens that are
productive, that are working in our schools and our industries and our
charities. They are giving back. At our core Ut Prosim is something that people
believe in. People live it. People do serve communities, and I do think that we
are kind of the bedrock of society. So our values and what we teach people is so
critical. That's really important. I think Tech is in a really interesting spot
now, because the
00:57:00Tech in Tech and the whole technology and engineering and STEMdisciplines coupled with the liberal arts is where the world is headed to. And
Tech is highly sought out. Our graduates are highly sought out as employees, and
so we have an opportunity to really leverage our strengths. We don't do it as
well as we should. We don't brag about ourselves as well as we should. We're not
as aggressive as we ought to be. We should have higher expectations. And part of
the struggle that I am as a proud Hokie who wants us to be the very best is
calibrating the gap of wanting us to be the national champions in football,
wanting Bill Gates to be here to invest in what we're doing and understand how
00:58:00good we are, and having the best students and the most diverse students. I wantall that for us, but the reality of where we are and what it takes to get there
is an educational process. And how you do that in a positive way without
offending people that have worked so hard to get us to where we are today is a
challenge. I'm struggling to figure that out because I want Tech to be a top 50
X and I don't want coaches to come here and think they have to stop here so they
can get that job at Alabama. I want them to think no, this is the Alabama of the
ACC, and we do it right and we do ethically, and I don't want to apologize for that.
That being said, it takes resources to do that,
00:59:00and it takes our alumni base andfriends to have that same vision and be willing to contribute to that vision.
That's the difference. When you, say some people say well what is the difference
between Cornell and Virginia Tech? That's the one noticeable difference, the
Cornell alumnus have those expectations and they fund those expectations at a
significant level, and we've got to get Virginia Tech to that place.
Ren: Yeah. And to that, when I interviewed John Dooley I told him,
"Congratulations on reaching the $1-billion mark." He said, "Yeah, I know, we've
still got more work to do," something like that. And I think this team as you
are talking about this being put together I think we're in good hands. I want to
ask you kind of a sidebar question.
01:00:00I know you are quite the exercise guru.After your first year in advancement here at Virginia Tech you went on a pretty
interesting vacation from what I gather. Can you talk a little bit about that?
This is something my wife would want to do.
Charlie: A good friend of mine from Cornell is a whitewater rafting expert and
takes trips every year. He has asked me to go on these trips before and I just
never could do it, so he reached out to me and asked if we wanted to do a 8-day
trip down the Colorado River and the Grand Canyon. I said absolutely we should
do that. My family said, "Ah, I don't know." I said this is a once in a lifetime
01:01:00experience. This is not motorized rafts, we're in rubbing rafts with oars. Weagreed to do it and we were excited to do it, and it was a once in a lifetime
experience, but it was a heck of a lot more difficult than I ever could have
imagined, you know, the hiking. But the fear factor, and I think I was
traumatized most days because there's my wife and three daughters in the
Colorado in very difficult white water with boats flipping over. You know people
drowned out there.
Ren: It's not the New River.
Charlie: No, and the elements were difficult and the scorpions and the sleeping
and the hiking in places were, you know you make
01:02:00one wrong step and you're dead.It was really amazing, amazing. But at the end of it we were proud. We were
happy. We were tired, beat. It was one of those things we talked about every
month. It was just once in a lifetime. Would I do it again? Probably. I'm not
sure I would do it with the whole family because I was too nervous, you know, it
might kill one of my family members out on the Colorado River, but it was amazing.
Ren: Yeah, my wife always talks about let's get away from our cell phones,
because my children, I have two boys 10 and 7, I mean they are on their phones
as much as my wife and I. We're both in front of our laptops and she's always
talking about unplugging and getting out into nature.
Charlie: No cell phones. The stars at night, you will never ever see, and in the
Grand Canyon from the river is the most beautiful place in the world, so it
01:03:00 wasreally cool.
Ren: Just a few more questions, and I appreciate it. You've been so generous
with your time. We're at the hour mark here. When someone simply says Virginia
Tech what's the first thing that you think of?
Charlie: The first thing I think of is Ut Prosim, land grant, hard work, grit,
determination, athletics I think of. Funny, when I took the job, when I was
asking whether I should take the job, when I asked people about what they know
about Virginia Tech, and the recent survey that we did nationally when people
ask that question, people that don't know Tech or didn't go here, it's typically
three things, and it could vary in order, but it's usually the tragedy,
football, and
01:04:00engineering in that order. People don't know a lot about VirginiaTech and part of what we need to do is make sure our story gets told at a deeper
level than it has nationally.
Ren: I have 150 or so interviews and a couple of hundred of hours of VT Stories
if you are interested in knowing the story that people like Chris Kraft has
shared about Virginia Tech or Kevin Crofton and Mickey Hayes.
Charlie: Those are the type of people, but I want Bill Gates and Mike Bloomberg,
Donald Trump, Barack Obama, I want them to know Virginia Tech, and I don't think
they know Virginia Tech like they ought to.
Ren: I believe I saw when they were pardoning the turkey the President mentioned
Virginia Tech and he said, 'a great school' I believe, which you know, probably
a little off the cuff comment.
Charlie: Yeah, but we need people of power to know deeper
01:05:00about what we have to offer.Ren: When you look across the campus and the state of the University, as someone
who grew up in Blacksburg, attended Virginia Tech, has traveled the world in
this profession and now really things have kind of come full circle, when you
look across this campus University what inspires you?
Charlie: Well, you're inspired by the natural beauty of the place and the way
the campus has been built and laid out and protected. I mean that's an obvious
one. You are inspired by the 30-something thousand kids that are here working
hard, studying and loving this area, treating it -- well, that's pretty
inspirational. And I think Tech wants to be better. We have a lot of people here
that see opportunities that love this place, love raising
01:06:00their families here,love living here, but are also kind of inspired by what could we do that would
really serve the society even more than it currently does. And I think there's a
collection and a momentum heading in that direction that's kind of interesting.
And Tim Sands has a vision for Tech that I think is the right vision for Tech,
and if we can be diligent and hold the course with the vision he's outlined it
will make a big difference for Virginia Tech. But we have to be open-minded,
transparent and really honest with ourselves about where we're really good and
where we have gaps that need to be filled and addressed. And I think it takes
great leadership, and I think Tim is pushing us on that
01:07:00issue, and I hope wewill rally around those gaps.
Ren: Yeah, I hope so. On the flipside of that question, what concerns you?
Charlie: Higher education is vulnerable. It's under attack currently. It's not
as respected as it ought to be. Double-digit inflation. I mean tuition increases
are over. We have to find a way to control costs. But we also have to educate
people on the value of the education that they are getting for the costs that
they are paying. I mean it's still quite a bargain. It's still looked at
internationally as a bargain, and so we need to protect the value of an
education, the value of importance of research, the pure value of what an
institution like a Virginia Tech does for society, but boy it's under attack.
State funding is
01:08:00flat. Federal funding is vulnerable. Philanthropic funding isflat, and so the cost side, the revenue side, the expense side of education is a concern.
Ren: The amount of tuition that you paid as a student is drastically higher as
it is today, as you know having children in college or going to college. This is
kind of a broad question that we ask everyone, and we've talked a lot about
Virginia Tech, but what does this place mean to you?
Charlie: You know my whole life's story is Virginia Tech. Everything I'm about
is touched by Virginia Tech from as a young toddler to today, so my life story
it's in the middle of it, so
01:09:00it means everything to me. I want it to mean more.I want to try to do some things that leave a legacy that I contributed something
to it. So that's the piece of my story that I'm trying to figure out. Whether
that will be possible or not time will tell, but that's kind of what it means to
me. I think a lot of other people it just touches so many people.
Ren: That's what I was going to say. I know I'm not the only alumni to say this,
but I feel the same way about this place. I came here in 2006 and I haven't
left. I worked from bachelor's to doctorate to teaching positions and now in
this role with VT Stories. I feel the same way and I hope one day that I can
give in a philanthropic way to the place that has given so much to me.
Charlie: Yeah, and I hope
01:10:00you can too. Because this is recorded, it's not thatwe want alumnus to give thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars, we just
need alumnus to give $10 or $50. Give something and make yourself accountable to
this low percentage rate. I beg my family at the holiday time to come on now,
make your annual fund gift, do something.
Ren: And I've tried ever since I graduated to give when I can and what I can. I
would love to give more, and when I interviewed Mickey Hayes I asked him when we
were talking about this, and he goes, "You know, I wish I was 20 years younger
so I could work more and make tons of money and then give it all to Virginia Tech."
Charlie: And Mickey Hayes would do that.
Ren: Yeah, he would. Last few questions, you mentioned earlier your accent. As
someone who also grew up in Southwest
01:11:00Virginia when did yours start to drift away?Charlie: Well it never has really drifted away. When I was at Cornell they would
say, "Boy, you sound southern." And when I would come home to Blacksburg they
would say, "Boy, you've lost your southern accent," and so you never lose that,
but you're more aware of it. And when I come back and I hear it is whoa, it
really is quite southern.
Ren: When I was in college and then now, and my wife's family is also from
Southwest Virginia, and I would hear them speak and I would be like man do
we...? And then we would be around them for a while and then I would come back
to Virginia Tech and around coworkers or whatever and they would be like, "Whoa,
where have you been? Where did that accent come from?" But I try to restrain it
as much as I can.
Charlie: Well I married somebody from the north and her accent has gotten a
little more southern, but there are words that I say that I don't really realize
01:12:00that I'm saying them, and I can't hear them the way that others do.Ren: My wife always tells the story about saying linear, the way she says that
in math the kids think it's hilarious. I also want to ask you, your last name
I've heard it pronounced about 20 different ways. What is the correct
pronunciation, and do you know your family's lineage?
Charlie: Well the family lineage is our family came to this area 229 years ago
in a farm over in Dublin Pulaski County. German descent is the background of our
family. I pronounce the name 'Fligger' kind of rhymes with trigger. But what I
have found over the years is I pronounce it multiple ways, so I never really
hear when people
01:13:00pronounce it different ways. I don't pick up on it, and so itdoesn't dawn it on me, but people do pronounce it different ways. You know
Charlie 'Fligger' and that's the way I say it.
Ren: I think it was President Sands during the State of the University and he
said your last name and I was like have I been pronouncing his last name? And
then John Dooley pronounced it a different way, and then I've heard a couple of
other people, so I wanted to get that clarification.
Charlie: Right.
Ren: Again, thank you so much for your time and speaking with VT Stories. I
really really appreciate it. The last question is is there anything I haven't
asked you that you would like to say or anything you would like to add?
Charlie: I don't think so. I appreciate you doing this. I hope other people do
this. I think it's a nice thing for Hokies to do, and I have a list of people
I'm going to give you now who I think their story would be interesting. And I
think there
01:14:00are some really interesting people out there that we don't know of,and I would encourage them to kind of raise their hand. Their stories are
amazing, but they may not be people that we know and how to get to those people.
Ren: Yeah, we would love to talk to anyone. We're always collecting stories and
we have a big team. There's faculty members. We have undergraduate and graduate
interns. We work the library. There was a class taught in the spring called New
Media Storytelling, and these students interviewed tech alumni, did this kind of
interview, wrote the piece up like I showed you and those stories are on our
website. It's teaching them oral history methodology, which is what we're doing
here, as well as teaching them about the University and sharing this history.
Charlie: I think the one thing I would say probably is that I tell people that I
think Tech is in a period of change right now that maybe it hasn't seen in a
while, and I think that's a good thing.
01:15:00It was under leadership for a longperiod of time and great things happened, and there's a different group of
leaders here. But I have always promised people that as an alum, somebody that
grew up I'm paying very very close attention to traditions, to things that I
think are non-negotiable changes. But that said, a place like Virginia Tech
needs to grow and change and get better, and not losing what we were about, not
losing the traditions, but pointing to things that will make Virginia Tech even
better in the years ahead. And we have to be open to that and open to the type
of fundamental changes that will make our graduates stronger and more marketable
and the research that we do more valuable, to not just Southwest Virginia, but
to the world. And to do that we need to be
01:16:00open and open to new thoughts andopen to new visions, and realizing that there are enough core Hokie alumnus,
myself included, that will never ever let us lose the Ut Prosim and tradition
that we are about, but help us move forward as well.
Ren: I appreciate it. I just want to say thank you so much for your time and
your commitment to this University. I think what you're doing is awesome, and as
an alumnus and someone who like you is teaching at Virginia Tech, I just really
appreciate and I think we're in good hands and thank you for your service to
this University. So Charlie Phlegar, thank you so much.
Charlie: Great. Thanks Ren. Appreciate it.
Ren: Thank you.
Charlie: Take care.
01:17:00