VT Stories Oral History with Buddy and Frances Russell, May 15, 2015 (Ms2016-015)

Ren H: So, this is Ren Harman. The date is May 15, 2015 at about 9:40 AM. So

what's your name and where were you born, and tell me a little bit about your

upbringing, your family and growing up.

Buddy R: Sure. George Edwin Russell, and

was named for both of my grandfathers. One was George and the other was Edwin,

and that's why I'm called "Buddy" by most people because my parents couldn't

decide which one to use. I grew up on a farm in Fauquier County, Virginia. My

parents were hard workers. Of course I start remembering most of my background

during the war years. I was of course born in '31, but by 1941 I was working

pretty hard on the farm. As a 10-year-old 00:01:00I joined the 4H Club and had 4H

projects like I guess I started out with pigs and then graduated to dairy cow

and beef cattle. That was a lot of my work on the farm, taking care of those

animals and helping my father with his livestock program. But I decided early on

that I wanted to go to college to learn more about agriculture because there was

a lot to know about crops and animals. I finished high school in 1948 at the age

of 16. I started to work on a farm nearby that had purebred cattle and I think

that also made up my mind that I wanted to be in 00:02:00agriculture, primarily animal

industry, so I majored in animal husbandry. I came to Virginia Tech as a

17-year-old and they put me over at Radford Arsenal because there wasn't room on

the main campus for all the freshmen. I think most of the cadets were there and

we had our classes over there. The only times we came to the main campus were

for drill, you know, as a cadet, on the drill field with all the other cadets.

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: It was an interesting year really because I became

acquainted with a lot of people. I knew just about everybody in the Cadet Corps

at that time and the professors who came over there I think were very good. We

of course learned a lot from them. And the sophomore year 00:03:00we really

started bearing down here on the main campus getting into courses like chemistry

which for me was very hard, but I managed to do that. And I think it was my

junior year that I took a quarter off and went to a big farm in West Virginia

where they had a purebred herd of cattle, and I learned to be a herdsman to show

cattle. We went all over the country, Kansas City, Denver, Chicago, and I rode

in the boxcar with the show cattle.

Ren H: Wow.

Buddy R: So that was one of the highlights of my college career.

Frances R: Tell about the hotel and the cow, the hotel in Minneapolis when you had the cow in the hotel.

Buddy R: Oh, that's another story. 00:04:00[Laughs] My wife is talking about a trip I took to Minneapolis

St. Paul one summer representing the beef cattle industry in Virginia. I took a

show calf in the back of a pickup, brand new truck, had a whole convoy of

Jaycees. It was a National JC Convention in Minneapolis. I took that calf up

there and put him inside the hotel in the hotel lobby in a little barricade,

some straw on the floor. And the fire marshal came in and said, "No, you can't

do that, it's against the fire regulations," so I moved the calf out on the

street, set up the little corral, and then that caused traffic congestion.

[Laughs] But anyway I was there for three or four days with 00:05:00that calf at the

National JC Convention. That was a lot of fun too, but I of course was in school

in animal husbandry and I had some serious class work to do. I knew what I

wanted to do; I wanted to be a farm manager and eventually a farm owner, but it

didn't work out that way because when I went in the Army right out of school I

spent two years in Texas in the Army. I was married and had a child, my first

child. I was going to be a veterinarian at that point. I said well you know I

won't be a farm manager, I'll just keep going to school, so I enrolled at

Oklahoma State, and while I was there my wife and little boy were back in El

Paso, 00:06:00Texas, I became homesick for the first time in my life I think. I

decided on the way back to El Paso I wasn't going to do that. I was going to

come back to Virginia and get a job. And in fact I came to Virginia Tech and got

a job in the Extension Division as an assistant county agent before I even went

home to my Marshall, Virginia home to see my parents. So I had a job and I guess

was there in Culpepper, oh about a year. Dr. Skelton decided he wanted me here

on the State 4H staff, which meant I would travel the state helping the

extension agents establish new programs. The ones I helped establish were career

exploration for one, and then the automotive project because so many young 00:07:00 kids

were learning to drive automobiles at that time. We had a good sponsor in

General Motors, a lot of good publications were put out by them. Then I also

started the International Farm Youth Exchange, which meant every year we would

have an exchange with several countries, older kids from the farm and that was a

very popular program. And from there I went into community resource development,

also an extension division program under Bill Daughtry and Bill Skelton. That

program engaged many of the different departments on the campus in helping

people in rural areas like southwest Virginia develop their programs in the

community. And that's why you had several counties join together as regional 00:08:00economic development associations. I worked with that and then they came to me

suggesting that I might make a good director of the alumni program. So I hadn't

even thought about that you know, but I had to think pretty fast because they

wanted an answer in a week's time. So I decided why not, I would do that for a

while, get it reorganized and come back to the Extension Division where I felt

very much at home. But that didn't work out either because [laughs] it lasted 28

years as head of the Alumni Association, and I'm glad I did because I met so

many good friends through that program, people like Chris Kraft. I didn't have

any idea I would meet that man, but we became good friends and even went to Bowl

games 00:09:00together in recent years. That's pretty much my career. I know I

left out a lot of things, but that's a start.

Ren H: So when you first started

thinking about college back when you were high school, you said you wanted to do

agriculture but why Virginia Tech? Was there something special about it? What

was the reason?

Buddy R: There was. My dad wanted to come to Virginia Tech but

his father died about the time he graduated from high school and he had to take

over the family farm, so he didn't have a chance to do that. But it was the best

agricultural school in the State and I didn't want to go out of State. This was

a long way from home at that time. It had what I wanted to learn really.

Ren H: What was your first memory of the campus when you stepped on as a freshman?

Buddy R: 00:10:00Well, actually I came before that. I came to the 4H Conference a couple

of years before that, maybe starting in '46, and my first impression was it's

huge, the big auditorium, Burruss Hall. [Laughs] It seemed like it was large

coming from a small town. You know it's actually very small because VPI was only

agriculture, business, and engineering back then, but it was big to me.

Ren H: Can you talk about maybe some of your notable professors or advisors that

were influential in your career at Virginia Tech?

Buddy R: Yes, I think

Professor Hunt, head of the department at the time is one who stands out most

because I had a lot of meetings with him. I think even Dr. Newman knew me

because I had a 4H scholarship which 00:11:00amounted to $100 a year, but it was great

and he presented it personally, so I got to know him. And I knew Stuart Cassell.

I knew people like the Dean at that time Dr. Hutcheson who the building is named

for. Then of course in Extension I think that was important to me. I knew a number of those

professors, but in my department I remember George Allen. He's still living here in town.

David C: We talked to him just the other day.

Buddy R: Oh did you?

David C: Yeah.

Frances R: Oh for goodness sake.

Buddy R: I bet that was an interesting interview.

David C: It was wonderful, yeah.

Buddy 00:12:00R: There were people in Extension also doing some teaching who were I thought my

best professors. And then of course I had one who stands out in my mind who

taught chemistry, Dr. Krug who was the first teacher that ever flunked me in a

course. [Laughs] At the time I was running back and forth managing this farm

back home and missed some tests, so I had to take that course over under

Professor Russell. I had no problem with him. [Laughs]. You know I enjoyed my

classes in 00:13:00English and Algebra and Calculus and those fields, but those

professors don't stick out in my mind as much as those in my field in

agriculture.

Ren H: So what was your experience of being in the Corps?

Buddy R: It was a great experience. [Laughs]

Ren H: I'm sure some good stories.

Buddy R: The "Rat Year" was tough, but I think I really benefited from it.

David C: So Rat Year was over at the Arsenal?

Buddy R: Yeah.

David C: Was the whole Corps over there or just part of the Corps?

Buddy R: No not all, they assigned some of the sophomores, juniors and seniors as those in charge.

David C: Okay, because I thought they needed to be to put you through your paces, right?

Buddy R: They did. [Laughs] During the day there weren't many of them there because they

came to the main campus, but there were always a few around to keep you on the right

track. I 00:14:00worked in the dining hall so I missed some of the marching to meals. We

had our own dining hall at the Arsenal.

Ren H: Was that Owens?

Buddy R: No, Owens was my sophomore year. It was half cadet and half civilian. It had two

sides to it.

Ren H: So at that time how many cadet students were there in

comparison to civilian students, do you know? Was it largely cadets?

Buddy R: No, it was about half cadets. But I also had a job announcing "lost and

found" and daily announcements you know in the dining hall. [Chuckles] One day

one of the civilians, a veteran, came in and said, 00:15:00"Here's an announcement for

you, let's get it done." So he sat there while I said, "The Corps has

got to go." [Laughs] Well here comes the regimental staff in there you know,

"What are you doing? We're going to put you in the guard house, but it was an

interesting job, meeting a lot of people.

David C: This is David Cline. I'll say hello to the tape here, from the Department of History.

I'm curious about that person who would show up and talk about the Corps, time for the Corps

to go. I mean you're talking about a period just post-war, a lot of veterans around.

Would this have been veterans who were against it?

Buddy R: Yes. Oh of course. They didn't like us waking them up with our bugle

call getting up early you know. [Laughs] I guess there was some feeling that we

were 00:16:00kind of messing up their way of living on the campus. There were a lot of

married students you know. They had a trailer park down by the duck pond,

married students with kids, but we got along real well, I thought, under the circumstances.

But they were several years older than most of the freshmen and sophomore anyway.

David C: No, that must have been very interesting I would think having folks around who

had just served in that

Buddy R: They were like big brothers. I mean they had

automobiles and we weren't allowed to have cars. [Laughs] That was another

thing, we had to be friends to get some of the advantages. In fact, I think I

traveled back and forth from home with a veteran who had an automobile. He

charged me only $5 to help pay for the gas. Most of the time I was thumbing,

hitchhiking back and 00:17:00forth, so yeah, I got to know as many veterans as I could.

[Chuckles]

Ren H: So your major was agriculture?

Buddy R: Yes.

Ren H: And that decision was just kind of based on primarily your family and kind of what you

wanted to do basically?

Buddy R: Right.

Ren H: I'm sure there's hundreds of stories and we could sit here all day, but is there some

favorite like memorable experiences or stories that really still stick out in your mind all these years

later that you would like to talk about?

Buddy R: Yeah. I don't know if you're

familiar with the Block and Bridle club, but that's an organization on the

campus some of the students are privileged to become members of. I was a member

of the judging team where we had a group of students in agriculture who would go

to different contests 00:18:00judging livestock. That was a big benefit too I

think. I learned a lot from that. That was a big deal to go from here to say

West Virginia or North Carolina to a judging contest, so that stands out in my

mind and I would like to see that continued. I know there are many girls

involved in it now. Then it was all male, but we had a good time with that, and

it actually helped me my first year in the Extension Division because I worked

with a lot of kids who were taking livestock projects and they wanted to be

members of the judging team and learn more that way, so I was able to help them

become very good at that activity.

Ren H: What about the Ring Dance?

Buddy R: Oh the Ring Dance? Yeah, that stands out too. I had a girl at the 00:19:00Ring Dance who I

had met

Frances R: Not me. [Laughs]

Buddy R: I went to West Virginia

that summer to learn how to show cattle. She was from East Liverpool, Ohio,

brought her down here and had a good weekend. She seemed to be very thrilled to

be here. Of course I had a lot of friends who also were taking their dates to

the Ring Dance. We had what you call cabin parties after the Ring Dance. That

lasted most of the night you know. When you got back the next day you didn't

know whether you wanted to go to that Tea Dance on Saturday or not, [laughs],

had such a big night Friday night. But it was quite a ceremony. Now I think they

let a pig 00:20:00loose, but I don't remember us having a pig loose at the Ring Dance.

[Laughs]

Ren H: That's funny. So you remember War Memorial Hall they decorated

for the Ring Dance? What was that like?

Buddy R: They did, yeah. I remember

also the German and Cotillion Dance where we could go to one dance at the gym

and then to the other at Squires. We were allowed to do that.

Ren H: So Virginia Tech obviously means a lot to the people that attended there,

especially I think, and we've talked about this a lot through these interviews, between

these certain years, that there's something significant I think between the years that

we've been kind of interviewing people from. So these are all really good

experiences, but did you have any difficult experiences or struggles that you

faced when you were at Virginia Tech?

Buddy R: Only that organic chemistry.

[Laughs] No, no problems with the academic side of it because I was

valedictorian of my high school 00:21:00and supposed to do well, expected to do well I

think. So no, it was academically I thought very pleasant. In fact

getting into graduate school was no problem in Maryland or Wisconsin.

Ren H: So you graduated in '52.

Buddy R: Yes.

Ren H: The Korean War was still on and you were destined for the Army.

Buddy R: Yes.

Ren H: How did that play out for you?

Buddy R: I was married the same month I graduated, not to Frances; this is the

second marriage for us, but went straight to El Paso after three months of

getting out of school. And I didn't go back to graduate school until I had been

here on the campus and I actually had let's see, three children, when I went to

the University of Maryland, and decided I had to have the 00:22:00doctorate if I wanted

to progress in the University and went to Wisconsin. That worked out well

because I had the GI Bill and actually the State paid me part salary because I

was coming back here; I wasn't going anywhere else. That helped tremendously. I

didn't have much money. It was expensive living in an apartment, having to pay

for your own gas back and forth to school.

Ren H: Right. So when you finished with your doctorate what was the transition from there to Virginia Tech?

Buddy R: Well, I came back to the same job of course that I had left.

Ren H: What year was that?

Buddy R: That was in 1962[4].

Ren H: 1962[4].

Buddy R: That was the beginning of the Hahn years, a lot 00:23:00of change in store for us.

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: Of course you could feel the growth in the University. In fact it

wasn't called the University then. I remember I was head of the Alumni

Association when we changed the name of the University and that was a big deal,

getting it approved by the legislature because we already had a Virginia State

University. They didn't want to call us Virginia State University.

Ren H: Can you talk a little bit about what Dr. Hahn kind of meant to the University?

Because he was rather young he was voted president, correct?

Buddy R: Right.

Ren H: And there was a lot of change going on, so what did his appointment as

president kind of mean to the University and mean to you?

Buddy R: I think his emphasis on more research, getting more money from the legislature

to help build the campus so we could teach more students and have more graduate students 00:24:00come in. That was key to the whole development. And of course making the Corps

opt- you know you had a choice whether you be in or not and then allowing women

to come in started the big growth pattern that we enjoy.

Ren H: So what was the decision about the Corps to make it voluntary or optional? How did that play out?

Buddy R: Well there were a lot of alumni who didn't agree with the Cadet

Corps becoming optional. In fact one of them was Tom Rice who was at the time

Rector of the Board of Visitors. He was adamant that you've got to keep the

Cadet Corps a mandatory program. But I think in later years he saw that he

helped the State and the University tremendously by opening it up to women and

making the Corps optional.

David C: Do you recall how students at the time on 00:25:00campus reacted?

Buddy R: Actually I was in Wisconsin at that point.

Frances R: I was here.

Buddy R: Frances was here, and of course I got all of that information.

Frances R: Oh there were the like Tom Rice, very upset about

the Corps being a volunteer thing rather than mandatory. So they had a huge- it

was in 1963, had a huge meeting here and all the legislators and Governor came

from Richmond. And I remember my father saying this will decide the future of

VPI, whether it will remain a small military school or it will be able to grow,

which it did. But it was very- I gather a very heated 00:26:00meeting, lots of

conversation.

Buddy R: One man who helped was the President of the Alumni

Association, Gene Rowe. He was a less emotional person I think, but he was an

executive type who understood the need to make it optional. And he sided with

Dr. Hahn. He was on the Board of Visitors at the time too, so I think it was a

very close vote. Fortunately he was able to get it through and stayed on as

president, because if he hadn't he was ready to leave. The requirement to be in

the Cadet Corps was a problem. I know in my freshman class in the Cadet Corps

many 00:27:00of them left after the first quarter and then more after the second

quarter. They just didn't want to take it you know. It was too rough on them,

and it was I think a problem in engineering because some of the professors were

saying that you can't be in the Cadet Corps if you want to take engineering. It

takes too much of your time.

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: But a lot of them remained and did well.

David C: Did most of the alumni come around on this issue?

Buddy R: Yeah, I think so. They were coming back and seeing the changes and thought it

was good for the University.

Ren H: So what do you think makes- What do you think

makes Virginia Tech unique? I'm sure there's many things, but what do you think

makes it unique?

Buddy R: 00:28:00Well, I think one thing is the Cadet Corps.

We still have one and I think that's the largest fraternal organization on the

campus and you find that more of the cadet graduates come back for reunions than

those who weren't in the Corps. But now we're seeing it level off even in the

Old Guard. We have about the same number coming back because there are fewer and

fewer of those cadets that come back, so I guess it's the same with younger

classes you know. The reunions don't seem to mean as much to them because they

didn't know as broad a group of friends. And the first thing you want to know

when you come to a reunion well who else is going to be there? [Laughs]

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: Now it's more reunions take place on football weekends where

they get together, maybe 00:29:00band people or those who majored in certain a

curricula.

Frances R: Or fraternities.

Buddy R: Sure, like the old fraternity house in town!

David C: I was going to say, in your work with the Alumni

Association obviously you're hearing from alumni who are deeply invested in the

school. What were some of the things that you heard from them about and what VPI

meant to them and why they remain involved?

Buddy R: Well, I think it's a school

where you are forced to learn or you leave you know. I think that they feel that

they learned a lot and it has helped them so much in their careers, because it

is a tough school to get through. I believe we have a 00:30:00strong faculty and have

had over the years, so they are dedicated. You get a lot of your dedication from

them and it means a lot to you to see that they want to stay here. They seem to

come here and want to stay. They don't want to come here and learn something and

go somewhere else to teach. Many of my faculty friends aspire to be deans or

maybe a vice president like I was for a while. It means a lot to you to know

that your work is recognized. And the Extension Division helps a lot too,

because you've got offices all over the State in every county and every city.

And now our Alumni Association has offices in just about every big city in the

State, that 00:31:00helps too. Generates interest, keeps them informed of what's going

on and encourages them to come back to the campus.

David C: What about Blacksburg itself? When you talk about the campus and the setting

here I feel that this place is special and draws people and as you said they don't want to

leave it.

Buddy R: I'm glad you asked that because I feel that way too. I like

the mountains and I like the people in the community surrounding us. They are

supportive of the University. And when I go to other schools they don't seem to

have that feeling about where they are located. I've been to Clemson a number of

times and it's similar there. It's a small, or was a small town. People feel at

home there and when they come back they feel like they are coming back 00:32:00 home.

Since I married Frances this has always been home to her [laughs] in Blacksburg,

and we have that feeling I think among our grandchildren now that this is a

special place. And we do have one grandson in school here now.

David C: Oh you do?

Ren H: Oh awesome.

Frances R: Yes.

Buddy R: He's a sophomore.

Frances R: He's the fourth generation with the same name. He's Thomas Barksdale

Hutcheson, the fourth, at least the third or is he the fourth? He is the fourth.

I get all mixed up.

Buddy R: The first three were in agriculture.

Frances R: That's right, his father was the third. But he's the first not to be in

agriculture. He's in mechanical engineering.

David C: Okay. Well that was a bold move.

Frances R: It was really was. [Laughs] He's a very nice young man.

Buddy R: But when you grow up in urban areas you have 00:33:00a different feeling about the

agriculture part of the University.

David C: Well that's something that I've been thinking about that I find fascinating.

So for folks who came here from your generations from small towns, and this was a big

place and a big University and there was an attraction there, I think a lot of the students

that are coming now especially from Northern Virginia this is sort of a retreat from that.

Buddy R: Yeah, it's very rural for them.

David C: I think they love that. I think that they love that they are away from the big city.

Buddy R: Right.

David C: Frances if I could ask you, if you could introduce yourself too for the tape where and

when you were born and we can ask you a little bit more about it as someone who

knows this place very well.

Frances R: I was Frances McEver and married to Tom Hutcheson and now to Buddy Russell.

I was born in Blacksburg in 00:34:001931.It was very small town. Christiansburg was much

larger and the main reason for Blacksburg's existence was the college then. Men- mostly

men, there were a few women who were daughters of professors, there was no

dormitory and they lived at home. This was all in the 30s. Everything changed during

the war. Most of the young men who could, who were physically able were drafted, so

they didn't have very much of teams sports, football and all because the young men

were not here. After the war I guess that's when things really changed 00:35:00and Dr.

Hahn was a big force in change for the college.

Buddy R: You should talk about your father too. He was a football coach.

Frances R: Well my father graduated from Tech or VPI in 1929, and he stayed on.

He was of the generation he was too young for World War I and too old for World War II,

so he was never in the service. But he coached a team at Virginia Tech during the war years

called the Beardless Wonders because they were all under 18, because when they were 18

they were drafted. So the Beardless Wonders did very well.

Buddy R: They were the first team to go to a Bowl game.

Frances R: The Beardless Wonders? Did they?

Buddy R: Yeah.

Frances R: I don't remember that.

Buddy R: They played in the Sun Bowl. That was a big deal.

Frances R: 00:36:00But then I graduated from the University

of Richmond West Hampton College. Just not a lot of women and I wanted liberal

arts and VPI then was really concentrating on the sciences and engineering. But

after the war that's when all the growth started and everything changed. Dr.

Hahn was instrumental in the change, whether it would become a major university

as it is now or just remain a small military school. It was the military. You

had to be in the Corps. And I think it was 1963 when they had that huge meeting

with legislators coming and a lot of them were Tech graduates. 00:37:00So in

the end Dr. Hahn won out and the Corps became a voluntary institution.

David C: You were married at that point and here?

Frances R: No. Let me see- yes I was. So I was here. Let's see- gosh, it seems so long ago.

I'm ancient. [Laughs] Because I was married in 1954 to Tom Hutcheson of the Hutcheson

Hutchesons.

David C: Can you tell us a little bit about the Hutcheson family and

the importance?

Frances R: Well, Dr. Tom Hutcheson was in the Agronomy

Department and he became dean. His brother, Dr. Jack Hutcheson was President.

That was all during the war, the second World 00:38:00War. And they at the time lived on

the campus. There was campus housing. It had very big houses, none of - I don't

think any of them are there.

Buddy R: No, the dormatories are where they lived. The dorms are where the Hutchesons lived.

Frances R: Yes, the Hutcheson house.

Buddy R: It's torn down.

Frances R: And then behind- coming down from Burruss

Hall there was Faculty Row. There were faculty houses and then there were

faculty houses on Main Street there was a whole row of faculty houses there.

What's there now? It's down from where we go to the plays and everything.

Buddy R: Oh the Art Center.

Frances R: Yes. It's all so changed. Well that 00:39:00road going

in, into the Memorial that was not there and it's just all so different now. The

campus has changed so much since growing up here.

David C: What do you think about all that change?

Frances R: I think it's wonderful. I like change and I think you should grow.

I think it was a good idea not to have the Corps being mandatory or that's the reason for

the growth and women here. It's like a much more normal institution I think. [Chuckles]

But I think it's just wonderful.

David C: And you also saw this area change from during the period of

segregation?

Frances R: Oh, a small college town to a huge community now.

David C: Right.

Frances R: And businesses. I think that's made such a 00:40:00 big

difference, a Corporate Research Park. That really was a major, don't you think

a major move?

Buddy R: I think it's helped a lot, yeah. Provided a lot of jobs

in this area.

Frances R: Oh yes, for graduates too, a lot of jobs for the

graduates. And it brought just a whole- It's just made a much more cosmopolitan

area for- and a major university, so it really has affected the community.

David C: And you saw the South change from under a system of segregation to things

changing.

Frances R: Yes. We really didn't have- Blacksburg had a very small

black population, but everybody knew everybody. We've never had really a feeling

of segregation exactly.

Buddy R: Well you didn't go 00:41:00to elementary and high school with blacks.

Frances R: No, no, and never really thought- That was just the way it was. You know when you're growing up you just-

Buddy R: We were in a separate school where I grew up too.

Frances R: But I just don't remember a lot of problem here with- Just everybody knew

everybody and we all seemed to get along.

Buddy R: All got along well.

Frances R: Hmm. I think the schools were separated. I mean everything was separated,

but I don't think- You just didn't think about it. Looking back you think well why

didn't we think about that and think was that right or wrong or what, but it was

just the way things were.

David C: But as a child it doesn't-

Frances R: As a child, but then as you grow up as an adult you begin to question is this right.

Buddy R: I remember when the first blacks started coming in to the 00:42:00athletic program.

They would bring them to my home to meet people and have encouragement from somebody

who is already here to come to Blacksburg. That was a good experience for my children

to see those young people come to Blacksburg for the first time.

David C: What do you think it was like for them coming in?

Buddy R: A little scary I would think.

Frances R: I would think. I would think. In fact, to think about how it was, even when

you had help in your home the bathroom- usually most homes only had one

bathroom and I'm thinking I don't recall, what did poor people do when they

needed to- it was very necessary to go? I don't know. And there's no one to ask.

That's the problem with being old. [Laughs] People want to ask you and

I 00:43:00can't go ask someone. Anyway, it was all- I just don't remember a feeling in

Blacksburg of segregation. I mean it was here, but it's a very small community.

Everybody knew everybody and I remember my late mother-in-law, this is the

Hutcheson family, and they had a maid, a young maid, it was 16 brought from a

farm that she had owned in Southside Virginia. And I remember she stayed with

the family for years and years and years until finally there was no one left but

Bessie who was a maid, and my late mother-in-law and they would sit- Bessie

would come and for lunch they would sit at the table in the kitchen and eat 00:44:00together, and I remember her saying she cannot imagine that they kept Bessie

separate from the family. They became very very close friends. And that was very

interesting. She was from Mississippi where of course things were very very

different there. I just don't remember a lot of feeling of segregation except

looking back there separate there were schools and all.

Buddy R: It was the same way on the farm growing up. We had black people working on

the farm but we worked together.

Frances R: Yeah.

Buddy R: I never felt that we were segregated.

And I remember white-washing the barn and the fences with black helpers.

Frances R: Yeah. [Laughs]

Buddy R: Cut the corn, filling the silo, cutting the wheat you 00:45:00know, putting it in the barn.

Frances R: I think most problems during that time

were in cities and places like that, and I think not in small communities where

the families knew each other. And even though there was- a difference in the

schools and in the churches and everything, but I don't know that it- Maybe that

was part of the problem; we didn't think about it, that it wasn't right. So you

just grow up in your time and that's how you live.

Buddy R: Too you didn't think of them going to college. In fact not many white kids

from my community went to college. Very few in my-

Frances R: In a rural community.

Buddy R: -high school class went on to college.

Frances R: Because of having the college here you were

more inclined to think about going to college.

Buddy R: Sure.

Ren H: So what changes have you seen over time, 00:46:00coming from a different vantage point?

Buddy R: You mean as far as segregation?

Ren H: No, just as far as the university community and the structure of just Blacksburg and Virginia Tech in general.

Buddy R: I think Blacksburg still feels that it's a university town and

without the university we wouldn't have a very big town.

Frances R: Yeah, there would be no reason.

Buddy R: I don't see any friction really between the

University and the town. I know the fraternity and sorority system caused some

problems at one time, but now that most of them are on the campus that has been

alleviated and I think there's very little problem there. I think the

controversy over whether we ought to have a Wal-Mart in town 00:47:00might cause a few

people thinking boy this town is closed to progress or they don't want industry

in Blacksburg, but there's very little of that feeling. Most people understand

that if you've got a Wal-Mart in Christiansburg you really don't need one in

Blacksburg because we're so close together.

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: I like to see economic growth as much as anybody because I like to

see new jobs provided for the graduating seniors.

Frances R: A lot of them want to stay. They love the school and they love Blacksburg.

Buddy R: How many of them already have jobs and

how many are going to have to go out and look? Work hard to get a job. Like she

said a lot of them want to stay here in this area. There just aren't that many

jobs.

Ren H: How has the University grown? 00:48:00I love the history of the buildings

on campus and how roads are different. You were talking about Faculty Road and I

had a class this semester in Solitude, so-

Frances R: Oh, in Solitude?

Buddy R: Her parents lived there.

Frances R: What was the class?

Ren H: It was an Appalachian Studies Course, a graduate course. Her class was-

the dining, the formal dining room possibly. Yeah, so I actually had a class in there

which was really interesting.

David C: And you lived there?

Frances R: Yes, my parents lived there. The old part is that smaller part in the back.

That's the oldest, and then the beautiful front-

Ren H: I think I was in the older part.

Frances R: That was there. Actually I think my father saved Solitude because he was

against tearing it down.

Buddy R: The Hokie Club started meeting there.

Frances R: Meeting there.

Buddy R: During football season.

Frances R: He was at 00:49:00Stuart Cassell's office, and he happened to look over on

Stewart's desk at a plan for the campus and he didn't see any Solitude. And so I think

that's when he sort of got the idea of having the Hokie Club there at Solitude in the old

old part. And then he and my mother and two brothers lived in the newer part,

which is the part that faces the halls.

Buddy R: Yeah, you had to be a big donor to be in on that crowd.

Frances R: Oh yeah.

Buddy R: Before the football game.

David C: So you think he really thought that out and thought if I get the Hokie

Club here they will want to keep this place.

Frances R: Oh I think he did, hmm, and they lived there.

Buddy R: Yeah, the Pamplins and the Cheathams you know,

they would come there.

Frances R: Oh yeah. They were good friends and he started

that Hokie Club of course too, but big donors to give to athletics.

Buddy R: Charlie Gordon was another one.

Frances R: Charlie Gordon was a really close

friend of his, yeah. In 00:50:00fact I had thought all along that was my father's-that

was his forte, raising money for athletics, and he did very well. And they had

wonderful parties there. Before the games members of the Hokie Club would come

and they would have lunch or supper or whatever was appropriate whenever the

game was playing, before the game.

Buddy R: Well that's another big change now all this tailgating they have. [Laughs]

Frances R: That-

David C: You watched the stadium go up I imagine.

Buddy R: Oh sure.

Frances R: Oh yes, hmm. Miles Stadium, oh the story about my grandmother.

Buddy R: Oh yeah, you've got to hear this story.

Frances R: When my parents were living on the campus and my

grandmother came and they had a big football game in Miles Stadium, the old

stadium. My mother and my aunt 00:51:00decided that it was just be too much for

grandmother going to the game and all those crowds of people and everything like

that. So we were sitting in the stands when the Cadet Corps always marched in

before the game, and in marched the Cadet Corps and the Commandant of the Corps

with their capes; they had their capes on. And all of a sudden he opened his

cape and out walked my grandmother. [Laughs]

Buddy R: She didn't have a ticket to get in the game.

Frances R: And my father was sitting on the bench because he

was coaching then. He got grandmother and somehow they got her up into the

stands beside my mother. But she had decided that she didn't want to be left.

She didn't like that, so she had walked across the campus and the Corps was

lining up outside of the stadium to go in to march in. She 00:52:00walked up to the

Commandant and asked him if he would take her in, and she said he just opened

his cloak and put it around her and in they marched. [Laughs] And so I

never [chuckles]. She was a very interesting woman.

Buddy R: I would liked to have seen that.

Ren H: That's a great story.

Frances R: I always enjoyed her. We had a good time together.

Buddy R: Well I think the athletic program has

benefitted a lot of students, even though they aren't stars on the football

team.

Frances R: Oh absolutely.

Buddy R: They gain a lot from the opportunity.

Frances R: Probably some of them wouldn't have been able to come unless they had

had the athletic scholarship there.

Buddy R: And even the Cadet Corps providing

the scholarships has maintained enrollment in the Cadet Corps. It's helped a

lot. Even if it's not a large scholarship, just to get a scholarship makes you

feel good about being in a college or 00:53:00 university.

Frances R: And part of a group is very meaningful too. I'm so glad that it remains.

Buddy R: We do worry about all these concussions that the kids seem to be getting and

you don't find out it's a problem until later in life sometimes.

Frances R: With football?

Buddy R: Yeah.

Frances R: Oh, yeah, because my father's hands were just awful.

Buddy R: Oh yeah. After he retired he would tell Frances and me, "If ya'll stand

behind me and hold me up I believe I could still swing a golf club." [Laughs]

Frances R: I don't think we're going to do that daddy.

David C: Leather helmet, or no helmets.

Frances R: Oh the helmets were just those leather-leather

helmets. His hands and just everywhere. You just can't sustain hit after hit

after hit to your 00:54:00body and not have some repercussion as you get older. So, I

don't know. And his neck, they make the helmets now- I mean everything is

supposed to be to protect the body, but you see the bigger linemen now-

David C: They're getting bigger and bigger.

Frances R: Enormous.

Buddy R: And what I was so proud of is that we have opportunities for students

to compete even though they aren't on varsity teams.

Frances R: That's good.

Buddy R: Club sports that they are allowed to compete against other colleges and universities.

Our grandson Tommy is in that program in track. He goes to James Madison and

even up to Pennsylvania.

Frances R: Tommy, yeah. He's the fourth generation, the

same name. I just think that's so wonderful to have him here.

Buddy R: We 00:55:00had another grandson who was coming here and he was accepted and he was

going in the Cadet Corps. All of a sudden he changed his mind just before the

summer he was coming and he enrolled in Mississippi State because his girlfriend

was going there.

Ren H: Oh okay.

Frances R: That was not a good idea.

Buddy R: But she didn't and they aren't going together.

Frances R: No, because the fraternity life was-you know, instead of emphasis on his class work.

David C: Oh he chose her fraternity instead of the Corps.

Buddy R: He learned to play golf. [Laughs] He said he had a girlfriend who taught him to play golf.

Frances R: Oh dear.

Ren H: Who better to ask then why Virginia Tech alumni become so committed

to the University? I mean there's other alumni organizations at other

universities, but it just seems like especially from this generation that we've

been talking about, and even today I just wonder 00:56:00why there's such a commitment.

Buddy R: well, I wonder why more of them don't come back, see, that's my

viewpoint.

Ren H: Exactly.

Buddy R: A lot of my classmates don't come back for reunions.

Frances R: They're too old darling.

Buddy R: Well now I know they are. [Laughs] I mean over the years. But I think there's

a feeling that the University does a lot for people who come here and most of them seem

to succeed in whatever they choose to go into. I know I feel that way. The grassroots

approach here. You know you learn by doing a lot of things, particularly in

agriculture and engineering, and even the business I think is that way. I'm glad

to see the University letting these business students learn to 00:57:00invest you know.

Some of the University foundation's funds they do very well because they work at

it. I think most of the alumni are proud of the University the way it's

developed, and I guess athletics has something to do with it too. [Laughs] I'm

sure it does. I remember when we were competing with Florida State in the Sugar

Bowl, the national championship. People were paying a thousand dollars for a

ticket to come to that game.

Ren H: My brother was one of them.

Frances R: Isn't that amazing?

Buddy R: It was important to them to be competitive, whatever we

do. A friend of mine here he's 93 years old. Didn't go to Tech, but I took him

over to the field house for this competition with the radio-controlled 00:58:00 whatever

they call them gadgets. [Laughs] These students were having a ball

competing against each other with those that they had made themselves.

Frances R: Was that [Mert] that you took?

Buddy R: Yeah. He was an aeronautics

Frances R: Aeronautical engineer, could not be drafted during World War II.

Buddy R: He did the design and manufactured airplanes.

Frances R: He's a fascinating man.

He's in his 90s. He would be interesting to interview. [Laughs]

David C: But he got a kick out of that, seeing the students.

Buddy R: Yeah, he really did.

Frances R: Oh yeah.

Buddy R: It opened his eyes I think to what's going on at Tech. And of course being

on the faculty myself I see these kids building these cars you know. They're supposed

to be driving themselves. [Laughs]

David 00:59:00C: Because my office is in Major Williamson's I end up walking by the garage all

the time. It's pretty neat to see them out there tinkering with the cars of

tomorrow.

Frances R: In a way it's wonderful to think that you could just set

your controls and just-

David C: Wonderful and frightening. [Laughs]

Frances R: It is because what about the other drivers? Are they?

David C: That's what I'm always thinking.

Frances R: I know. You have to be so concerned.

Buddy R: Well we both participated in research at the Transportation Institute and

Frances was in a brand new Mercedes. They were checking her reaction time. I was

in another vehicle doing the same thing. Anyways, these things popped up in the

road you know and she ran over them.

Frances R: Popped up in the road and I just ran right over them. [Laughs] They have not

invited me back. [Laughs] I think I was supposed to have slammed on the 01:00:00brakes. I was

like what is this? Have you ever done that?

David C: No. I want to now. [Laughs]

Frances R: It's very interesting. The things that pop up from side to side and out of the

road I guess to check your reaction.

Buddy R: I thought that was fun so I enrolled in another project that was taking place

over on the campus where they put me on a treadmill and put blinders on me and then

all of a sudden you can't see and you're still walking. I went right off the back of the thing. [Laughs] Skinned up my knees.

Frances R: You haven't been invited back either have you? [Laughs]

Buddy R: I suspect now they probably put a harness on them.

Frances R: I would think so. Yeah. But if you're ever invited to do anything at the Transportation

Institute it�s really fascinating.

David C: Well I know somebody who works there

so as soon as I leave I'm going to give them a call and volunteer myself.

Frances R: It's very 01:01:00 interesting.

David C: It sounds like fun.

Frances R: I don't know whether they still have that thing with all things popping up

out of the-

Buddy R: Oh yeah, they still have it.

Frances R: Oh, very interesting. I probably shouldn't have said anything so, now you will

know if you are invited to go. [Laughs]

David C: If they put me in a Mercedes I'll know what's coming.

Frances R: It's toward the end.

Buddy R: We're proud to see the emphasis that President Sands is putting on

research because I think that's a key to a good education, is learning new things

and being on the cutting edge all the time.

Frances R: Yeah. And Ms. Sands is very interested in everything too.

Buddy R: Yeah.

Frances R: They really are a team.

Buddy R: It's also important that he hires good people and I think he is from what

I hear. I know this man that's going to be head of the- or vice president for Advancement I

hired him to work in the Alumni Association and he's 01:02:00done so well since leaving

here.

David C: Oh okay. So he went from here?

Buddy R: He went from here to South Carolina and then to Johns Hopkins and then

to Cornell. It's been an advancement for him each time.

David C: Right. Is that nice for you to see his trajectory?

Buddy R: It makes me feel good. In fact a number of the people who

worked for me in the alumni office have gone on to bigger and better things. It

makes me feel good, yeah.

Frances R: Yeah they have, especially Charlie coming back. I think that's wonderful.

Buddy R: Yeah. Well you know Tom worked with me for 20 years before I retired. I

think he's done a good job.

Ren H: Can you talk about your class ring a little bit?

Buddy R: Oh yeah.

Ren H: I see you're wearing it now.

Buddy R: Yeah, I lost that thing. [Laughs] Up in Winchester I

was on a field trip and I was throwing snowballs. I had it on my right hand at

the time and of course you can't find it in the snow. Well I think it 01:03:00was three

years later a guy from my home county, Fauquier County, called me up and said,

"I'm practice teaching up here in Winchester and I think I found your class

ring." I said, "Oh boy, how can I get it?" And he said, "Well not easily" he

said, "A girl was wearing it." [Laughs] Said, "I asked her if I could take a

look at it and I knew that the name would be inside. I saw your name and I think

you can get it back for maybe a little reward." So I said, "Sure, how much?"

[Laughs] I was real happy to get it back, but yeah, I wear it most of the time,

but you can see it's not worn as badly as a lot of them that have been around as

long as mine, because I've got a smaller one that I wear.

Frances R: They are beautiful rings aren't they?

Buddy R: It's a signet ring that my daughter's class gave me when I was a class sponsor

for her class. 01:04:00So I wear that one most of the time.

Ren H: It's beautiful.

Frances R: They are big and heavy aren't they?

David C: Your daughter went to Tech as well?

Buddy R: Hmm. Yeah, she majored in art and became a teacher of art herself, now has two

children of her own. One is 18 now looking to go to college and I think she's

planning to go to a culinary college in Charlotte.

Frances R: That's good.

Buddy R: That's what she's interested in.

Frances R: I had forgotten my daughter graduated from Virginia Tech also in Human

Nutrition and Foods. She made the highest grade point average that had ever been

made in that college. She's an excellent student. She is now an audiologist, has her

doctorate in audiology and works with little children 01:05:00who have had cochlear implants.

David C: Very interesting.

Frances R: So she loves her job and it's a wonderful job.

Buddy R: Yeah, she's coming next month for a visit.

Frances R: Yeah.

Buddy R: Every year they come from Memphis to the lake. We have a place over at Claytor Lake.

They enjoy it there. They get to know the campus very well too.

Frances R: Oh yeah.

David C: So I think I know the answer to this question already from the

way that you're talking, but are you enjoying this phase of your life?

Buddy R: Oh yes.

Frances R: Oh!!

David C: With grandchildren and being retired?

Buddy R: Very much so. Have time to spend with them when they come.

Frances R: And we have made so many new friends out here at Warm Hearth.

The old people who live out here are very interesting people. They are from all walks

of life really.

Buddy R: Most of them have had outstanding careers themselves.

Frances R: Hmm. And they are active and still 01:06:00interested in things. In fact Virginia Tech has a

senior learning program out here, and I've taken part in several of the classes

out here, and that's very interesting too.

Ren H: Never stop learning.

Buddy R: Yeah, you go on my golf days, so I haven't been participating.

Frances R: You don't have homework.

Buddy R: I play golf a lot.

David C: You go golfing instead. [Laughs]

Frances R: Buddy's had a wonderful time with golf.

Buddy R: I'm on the board for the river course, so trying to maintain that is a

challenge.

David C: So you do know David Lowe well.

Buddy R: Yeah, I do.

Frances R: Have you all been to the river course?

Ren H: I have.

David C: You're a golfer.

Ren H: Yeah, not a good one.

David C: I have not.

Frances R: It's a perfectly beautiful golf course.

Buddy R: It is, yeah. It's just too bad that

we can't get more people coming in, but there's no place to stay overnight you

know close by. That's one drawback, but a lot 01:07:00who go over there to play stay at

the Inn.

David C: I bet that will grow over time.

Buddy R: It will. Yeah.

Frances R: Yeah, it's good to have the Inn. That was wonderful to have

that on campus.

Ren H: When someone says Virginia Tech what do you first think

of or what does that name mean to you? I know we can talk for hours about that,

but when someone says that what do you think of? Because it's obviously meant a

lot to the both of you in different ways and together too.

Buddy R: Oh I think it's a great opportunity for people whether they come here as

students or come here for continuing education, or come here as a faculty member.

It's a great opportunity here, because it is a progressive university. You just look at all

the building taking place. You don't see that many places.

Ren H: No, not at all. There's always 01:08:00 construction.

Frances R: Growing and growing. It's just amazing. When you look back in the 30s

when growing up, like the college was just about 2,000 cadets, a few women, and the

town was about 2,000 people.

Buddy R: We go down to Georgia in the winter time and Georgia Tech is in Georgia.

Ren H: Right.

Buddy R: Well I figure the people on Jekyll Island know more about

Virginia Tech than they know about Georgia Tech, really.

Frances R: It's amazing. You mention the school and people have heard of it. So I think

that's wonderful.

Ren H: You kind of see Hokies no matter where you are.

Buddy R: Yeah, and they always want to know what's a Hokie.

Frances R: Oh right. [Laughs] Everybody wants to know what is a Hokie.

Well I was a spider. Isn't that terrible? [Laughs] 01:09:00Well it used to be gobbler and

before they even had a turkey. I can remember going to football games and there

would be a turkey on the field with a handler, but the turkey would be on the field.

But they've done away with all of that now. People don't want to be called a turkey.

Buddy R: To answer your question about Virginia Tech, another thing I think of

immediately is "service" because of our motto. I was a district governor in Rotary and they

would ask me "do you have to be a Virginia Tech graduate to be a district

governor?" I said, "No, but our motto is service, that's the same for Rotary,

it's the purpose." So it makes you proud to talk about that I think.

Ren H: Well this has been great. Thank you both so much. Kind of the final we would

like to ask 01:10:00or talk about, was there anything that you would like to say or that

we didn't ask, or anything you would like to add about kind of Virginia Tech or

your life in general?

David C: Or question you thought we might ask but we failed to.

Buddy R: You know, I think it's a great idea that you're doing this,

because so often we talk about maybe we should write these things down so our

kids and grandkids and their kids will know what it was like. I think it's

tremendous that you're doing it and happy to participate. I know you're going to

get some more good stories from the Old Guard reunion.

Frances R: Oh, are you going to be at the Old Guard?

David C: Yeah. We'll be doing interviews there.

Frances R: And so often if you're talking in a group, not a large group but just

three or four or five people talking, 01:11:00one person will say something which will

remind another one. It's really better I think than just one on one.

David C: And the spouses too.

Frances R: Right.

David C:I mean this is clearly a partnership.

Buddy R: Well I hope you get to interview Al and June Hardy,

because they both went here and there's one year difference in their classes.

Frances R: Well June grew up, because she and I-

Buddy R: June was the daughter of an ROTC instructor.

Frances R: Sergeant Male

Buddy R: Sergeant Male who was a Cadet Corps leader at the time.

Frances R: Right. She grew up in- we were the same age in the same class.

David C: You grew up together?

Frances R: Huh-huh, June. But then I went to actually three different high schools

because it was during the War. Everything in the 40s when the War, during the Second

World War all things changed. So I actually went to Blacksburg 01:12:00High School, Chapel Hill

High School, and Thomas Jefferson in Richmond. I graduated from Thomas Jefferson

High School. Tech didn't have a football team one year, so my father was

coaching the Navy V12 team in Chapel Hill with his brother, who also coached.

And then we moved to Richmond because they had wanted a professional football

team there that he coached, and that's why I graduated from Thomas Jefferson.

And, then I graduated from the University of Richmond, from West Hampton

College.

David C: Right. And then you came back here when things got back to

normal?

Frances R: Came back here to teach school, and I was married to Tom

Hutcheson who was the third generation here.

David C: And you taught in the Blacksburg 01:13:00School District?

Frances R: Hmm. I taught English in Blacksburg High School. English is a very difficult

subject to teach, especially [laughs]. Oh dear.

David C: Clearly it is based on my students' writing. [Laughs]

Buddy R: I think the computer has a lot to do with the writing. [Laughs]

Frances R: Oh I think so. I wonder do they even talk about nouns and verbs anymore?

David C: Well, I've been helping to raise my nephew and he just started college and

he said, "I'm in the right generation because I can't spell but it doesn't matter; the

computer will correct it for me."

Frances R: Oh.

Buddy R: One of the biggest changes on the campus is students speaking to

each other. I mean you can't because there's so many now, but we used to speak.

Everybody we met we would say hello and now they're looking at their I Phones.

Frances R: Well you'll see a group of young people 01:14:00and no one is looking. I mean

they're all like this. Doing like this. I think we're going to have a generation

of people who walk like this. [Laughs]

David C: Bad backs. Terrible back problems.

Buddy R: Thank you for coming.

David C: Well thank you so much. This is such a pleasure, really enjoyable.

Frances R: This has been fun. You know it's interesting too, I think that's a good way

to interview when you're interviewing is to have several people, because one person

will say something which will remind you of something. But it's so fun to think back.

Buddy R: Yeah.

Frances R: I don't know whether it was so much going through it, but anyway-

David C: These are always better.

Frances R: It's always better looking back. [Chuckles]

David C: Absolutely.

Ren H: Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.