Oral History with Eugene Lawson and Scott Sterl, October 23, 2014 (Ms2015-007)

Partial Transcript: Carman Bolt: Ok we'll go ahead and begin. My name's Carman Bolt and it's October 23rd, 2014. We're in Blacksburg, Virginia, and I'm sitting down with--would you please state your name?

Eugene Lawson: Eugene Lawson.

BOLT: Mr. Eugene Lawson. And we are just going to go ahead and dive right into it, if that's fine with you.

LAWSON: Yes go ahead.

Segment Synopsis: Introduction to the individual interview with Eugene Lawson

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So you've already told us your name but could tell us about your date or place of birth, and about your family and how you were raised?

LAWSON: Ok, I was born in Richmond, Virginia, on March 11th 1947. Richmond has been my hometown, forever, and I'm very proud of it even today.

Segment Synopsis: Describes growing up in Richmond, Virginia with a father in the military

Keywords: high school; parents; theater; theatre

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: I came to Tech in '65 and was part of an initial program that the YMCA has that brought student leaders to the campus early to teach you among other things the Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi cheer, which would get the spirit going. It was also the first year that Lane Stadium was open.

Segment Synopsis: Talks about attending Virginia Tech as part of the Class of 1969

Keywords: Class of 1969; Cold War; snowstorms; supersonic transport planes

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: So when I got done with school I opened up an electronic store here in Blacksburg and sold stereo equipment and that sort of thing. Then later, when students didn't have as much money as I thought they might to buy that sort of stuff, I branched out into doing construction work.

Segment Synopsis: Describes working in construction in the Virginia Tech areas in the 1970s

Keywords: Board of Visitors; Forest Hills; Hederick House; Mount Tabor Village; architectural design

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: It was a strange time to be gay because there was no Gay Rights Movement. We were in the middle of the Civil Rights Movement but Civil Rights were mainly racial.

Segment Synopsis: Talks about what it was like to be gay during the 1960s Civil Rights Movement and the difference between the Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights Movement at that time

Keywords: Civil Rights Movement; Gay Rights Movement; racial minorities; social organizations

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: We had one incident: the occupation of Williams Hall, which didn't last very long because the state police came in with buses and moving vans, and just booted the students all out in the moving vans and hauled them away. That was about the end of it [laughs].

Segment Synopsis: Describes a protest where students occupied Williams Hall until police hauled them away

Keywords: Gay Rights Movement; Kent State massacre; Kent State shootings; protests

Partial Transcript: BOLT: And outside of the Virginia Tech community, which you were saying was more of a little-c conservative area, not as much going on, in the broader community did you ever encounter any hostility or any issues or did you find that that kind of conservativeness carried through the broader Blacksburg and Southwest Virginia community?

Segment Synopsis: Talks about the implicit acceptance of gays in small town communities in 1960s Virginia

Keywords: conservative; live and let live; sexuality; small towns

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So that actually leads me to ask, because you say it was almost as if everybody knew but wasn't--there weren't perhaps open conversations happening about it. Were there any LGBTQ community organizations on Tech, even by another name, at the time you were attending?

Segment Synopsis: Talks about a gay rights group at Virginia Tech in the 1960s and about the narrow focus of such organizations at that time

Keywords: Gay Rights Movement; civil rights; social organizations; student organizations

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So during your time here did you have any specific mentors or allies that you recall?

LAWSON: Well there was some interesting faculty people who helped a lot. This is an interesting situation about whether I should mention names or not because today I'm not even sure how open some of them are.

Segment Synopsis: Mentions the existence of mentors and allies in the faculty and then goes on to talk about the legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States

Keywords: Supreme Court; legalization; professors; same-sex partner

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So, in class discussion, we've been talking a lot about the idea of identity, and you were just saying when it gets into all these letters, you have no clue--I think everyone's deciding which letters need to be added to this acronym, but really, it's been about the topic of identity. Do you have any particular feelings about your own identity or do you have a specific way in which you would identify yourself as a person? And that could mean anything really.

Segment Synopsis: Describes his personal identity as gay and an army brat

Keywords: Gay Rights Movement; military; personal identity

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: I thought that through the 60s and the Civil Rights Movement, that when the Civil Rights Movement started to branch out into abortion rights, women's rights, things like that, it started losing its clout. And I think it wasn't until its leaders decided they needed to focus on what their real, core purpose was, Civil Rights, that they--they eliminated essentially all of their letters and went back to Civil Rights. That's when they became effective again.

Segment Synopsis: Expresses his concern over the expanded focus of the Gay Rights Movement since it began and compares that to the Civil Rights Movement

Keywords: 1960s; Republican; abortion rights; equal rights; fragmentation; lesbians; transgendered; women's rights

Partial Transcript: BOLT: Well, I mean, you've covered actually a lot of what I have here. I would like to open it up to you, if there is anything more that you have to add, or questions I didn't ask you, or things--anything you would like to add to this interview.

Segment Synopsis: Closing of the individual interview with Eugene Lawson

Partial Transcript: Carmen Bolt: Alright, I'm Carman Bolt and I'm back here in Blacksburg with--

Scott Sterl: Scott Sterl.

Segment Synopsis: Introduction to the individual interview with Scott Sterl

Partial Transcript: BOLT: Mr. Scott Sterl, and we are going to start up by perhaps you telling me about the date and place you were born, maybe about your family, how you were raised. Who's important to you?

Segment Synopsis: Describes his family and inspiration to pursue architecture

Keywords: childhood; grandparents; parents; siblings

Partial Transcript: STERL: I didn't want to go to Penn State because everyone else was going there from my high school. So a guy that was a year or two ahead of me in high school went to Virginia Tech, so I kind of knew him. So that led me to apply here at Virginia Tech. And also applied at Clemson and Auburn, I think it was. All farther away from Reading.

Segment Synopsis: Describes the decision to attend Virginia Tech and what it was like during freshman year in the architecture program

Keywords: architecture; classical music; football

Partial Transcript: BOLT: Did you find--well I guess I can ask you the question. I discussed how we had been discussing identity. Did you or do you specifically have a way that you identify? Or do you feel like this is the person I identify as?

Segment Synopsis: Talks about identifying as gay and about reactions from family when they found out

Keywords: architect; family; gay; parents; personal identity

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So in your experience at Tech, do you feel like that--or those identities certainly, architecture because that's what it was, you know, what you were doing all the time, but do you feel like any other parts of your identity enhanced, or altered, or impacted your experience at Tech?

Segment Synopsis: Talks about experiences as a student at Virginia Tech and how intense the architecture program was

Keywords: classes

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So in the outside Blacksburg community, did you get involved in anything? I know at one point you got hired on.

STERL: Yeah. That was my second year.

Segment Synopsis: Describes staying in Blacksburg and getting a job during the summer leading to a relationship with Eugene Lawson

Keywords: employment; parties; relationships

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So back to your time at Tech. Did you have any specific mentors? Or allies during your time here, maybe within the architecture program?

STERL: Yeah. Tom Regan was. Ferrari[?] a little bit. Let's see what else? Teneger[?] was around too. That's--that's all I can remember.

Segment Synopsis: Mentions mentors from his time at Virginia Tech

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So kind of moving into modern day, or not even modern day, but post-Tech. You both eventually moved to D.C. Did you get involved in anything when you moved to D.C., in terms of different communities or organizations?

Segment Synopsis: Talks about becoming involved with the Log Cabin Republicans in Northern Virginia

Keywords: Northern Virginia; Washington, D.C.; political fundraisers; politics

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So this might be kind of an odd question but, having gone through Virginia Tech at the time you did, and having had the experience that you did, do you have advice for generations that are now at Tech on either how to survive or how to get involved or anything?

Segment Synopsis: Gives advice for current Virginia Tech students about choosing a career path

Keywords: career; direction; passion; practical experience

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So do you have anything more or something you would like to answer that I didn't have a question for, or some story you have that I didn't touch on, or we haven't touched on?

STERL: There was something else I thought I was going to say but--oh I know what it was! This is kind of a social thing

BOLT: K.

Segment Synopsis: Shares an anecdote about a spontaneous Thanksgiving dinner that students from the architecture program put on for anyone on campus during the holiday

Keywords: Thanksgiving; cooking; parties; student events

Partial Transcript: BOLT: Well if there isn't anything else you in particular would like to add.

STERL: No I think that's all.

BOLT: Ok, well thank you very much.

Segment Synopsis: Closing of the individual interview with Scott Sterl

Partial Transcript: Carmen Bolt: Ok, we are going to pick up speaking with both of you now.

Segment Synopsis: Introduction to the joint interview with Eugene Lawson and Scott Sterl

Partial Transcript: BOLT: I thought we could start back maybe at the time you both met. You [Scott Sterl] were just telling me [off tape] that you Eugene had already left Tech at the time that the two of you met, but you came back for sometime?

Eugene Lawson: I actually did go back to school primarily to be close to him. He's right, I was smitten first, and it took him awhile to come around, but it obviously worked.

Scott Sterl: He's persistent.

Segment Synopsis: Description of how they met and became a couple follows quickly into a discussion of Hokie sports

Keywords: Hokie Nation; baseball; bowl games; social events

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: Part of that Hokie Nation stuff has also actually moved into my law practice, because I do a lot of estate planning. After the horrible tragedy of the shooting here, it's very interesting, I've had a couple of clients who have purposefully put bequests in their wills, and their estate plan for Virginia Tech, because they were so impressed with the way the Tech community handled the whole thing.

Segment Synopsis: Eugene Lawson talks about the Hokie spirit following the Virginia Tech shooting

Keywords: Nikki Giovanni; President Bush; estate planning; law practice; memorials; monuments; wills

Partial Transcript: BOLT: But at the time that you were together here you weren't really--you went to the basketball games, you were saying, but not really into the football. That's been a more--later thing?

STERL: Yes.

BOLT: So what did you do instead?

SS/LAWSON: [laughs]

Segment Synopsis: Discuss becoming involved with the Kennedy Center and the arts

Keywords: Millennium Stage; ballet; donor programs; music; opera; organ music; theater; theatre

Partial Transcript: STERL: You asked about the parties. When we moved to Northern Virginia, I guess we've, as I said, always kind of liked the entertain. We're not big social butterflies but we do enjoy having people over for dinner, and I do like to cook. I like to have good wines too. One year we decided we would start a little New Years Eve tradition, and do black-tie New Years Eve parties. I would cook and we'd have a few people.

Segment Synopsis: Describe experiences socializing with other gay couples in Northern Virginia

Keywords: New Years Eve; Northern Virginia; cooking; dinner; party invitations

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: Yeah, and the other thing that I was going to mention, over time, that's been advantageous to the gay community is people no longer being afraid to let the world know that they're gay. I mean, you look around now and it's almost like they've always been there, but nobody knew it.

Segment Synopsis: Lawson talks about increased visibility of LGBTQ people in positions of power

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: It's like you read this stuff about destruction of marriage or whatever. I think we may have saved it, because everybody we know is getting married. Including the guy that's coming to visit us at the game this evening that we're going to meet for dinner later on.

Segment Synopsis: Talk about the prevalence of marriage in the gay community following legalization and the increasing number of adoptions by gay couples

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: In fact, one of the things that we've talked with the Tech Development Office about for a number of years now is making sure that they do an outreach to gay couples, because we're not the only ones that exist in the Virginia Tech community, and to make sure that when they put out the brochures and they put out their mailings, that they've got gay couples in there.

Segment Synopsis: Lawson relates the changing attitude of institutions toward same-sex couples with regard to institutional development

Partial Transcript: LAWSON: But also, you know, working with the Kennedy Center has enabled us to go to the Honors pretty much every year, which is one of the highlights of the artistic world in America.

BOLT: Mhm

Segment Synopsis: Lawson describes attending Kennedy Center Honors ceremonies

Partial Transcript: STERL: Well the--I don't remember what it was. In the late 90s, I guess, was the March on Washington. That was, you know--we went and we walked down the street. It was really kind of neat to be in that throng of people that was walking down Pennsylvania Avenue. Then, I think a quilt was there too.

Segment Synopsis: Talk about seeing the AIDS Memorial Quilt on the National Mall during the March on Washington

Partial Transcript: BOLT: So in terms of--you said even when you were living here and you had your Christmas parties. That was more of the social aspect of things that you both enjoyed kind of doing. Did that increase when you went to Northern Virginia? I feel like, like I was saying geographically there are different types of environments, I guess this is more small, but when you got to DC did you find yourself--you said getting involved in the organizations you were listing but anything else once you got to Northern Virginia?

Segment Synopsis: Talk about living, working, and socializing in Northern Virginia and Rehoboth

Partial Transcript: STERL: And speaking of the Virginia thing, one of the interesting things is we've provided for a place for us to be eternally, and it's in Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond. Hollywood Cemetery is a great place because of the big Civil War part.

Segment Synopsis: Talk about end of life planning and then proceed to discuss the culture and history of the South and Virginia.

Partial Transcript: STERL: One other thing that I was just going to mention because I think it's a unique thing. We did, earlier in our life, take a trip on the Queen Elizabeth, the ship from England to the U.S., on a vacation that we had, and had a wonderful experience. Strangely enough and luckily enough, a few years later the Q.E. 2 was getting ready to be taken out of service, and we were able to take a trip on the final voyage from New York to England on Q.E. 2. And we have lots of memorabilia from it, but that was just--

Segment Synopsis: Reminisce about traveling the world with each other and with their mothers

Partial Transcript: STERL: Well I guess I'm storied out.

LAWSON: Ok.

BOLT:I was going to ask if you had anything left. I mean you guys have given us wonderful stories. Stories of food, and parties, and your time at Tech, and the Hokie Nation. It's been really wonderful and again we appreciate it so much. If there is anything left that you had to add?

Segment Synopsis: Closing of the joint interview with Eugene Lawson and Scott Sterl