Oral History with David Hernandez, October 26, 2014 (Ms2015-007)

Dara Green: My name is Dara Green, and I am a student of Dr. David Cline, and I am here today with

David Hernandez to talk about the history of the LGBTQ community here at Virginia Tech, and we so appreciate you coming in to talk with us

David Hernandez: I'm very glad to be here.

GREEN: This is great. Can we start off by having you tell me your name, your

date of birth, and your place of birth?

HERNANDEZ: Certainly. So like you stated Dara, my name is David Hernandez. Born December 4th 1991, and I believe my birth-certificate states that I was born in Washington D.C.

GREEN: Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing?

HERNANDEZ: Certainly. Depends on what you mean by a little bit, because I could go all the way back to I was born in this hospital, and then raised in 00:01:00this part of the world for however many number of years. Ok, sure, so I was born in D.C., like I said, but grew up for a few years in Oxon Hill Maryland. Right across the fence from where the Gaylord National Convention Center is now. Staid there until about 1994-1995, and then I moved to Arlington, Virginia, which is now my permanent place of residence. My up bringing I would say so I'm a first generation American. My parents are Filipino immigrants. They emigrated from the Philippines in 1985 to escape the Marcos totalitarian regime. I'm certainly very thankful for that. So that certainly colored a bit of my upbringing in terms of having that part of Filipino culture in me, as well as how I was raised sort of religiously. My 00:02:00parents were both or they are both practicing Catholics, and that was a fairly major part of my childhood, going to Sunday school and all that. But yeah, so that's just a little brief history of my upbringing. What else should I talk about? [laugh]

GREEN: Well anything that you think is pertinent to the interview.

HERNANDEZ: Ok.

GREEN: Jumping right into it: I know that you are an activist here on campus for

the LGBT community, and I'd just like to ask you for the record, how you

identify yourself within that?

HERNANDEZ: So I've a very interesting viewpoint on the notion of identities and

labels. I think the closest I identify, with regards to my sexual orientation,

would be that I am pansexual. But once again, that's a 00:03:00very difficult thing to

confine, because it's trying to put boxes on a spectrum, right? Or not even a

spectrum, a series of spectrums. Attraction is very hard to classify. But we as

humans try to do our best in doing that, and the scientists try to do our best

doing that, right?

GREEN: Right. Absolutely. When did you start realizing this about yourself?

HERNANDEZ: Well that's one hell of a story, if I may say so.

GREEN: Absolutely, let's hear it.

HERNANDEZ: So I first began discovering my sexuality when I was about eight years old, maybe nine years old, stumbled upon some adult materials. And from there I sort of discovered that I sort of had passing physical attractions to my male peers, right? Things that I wouldn't, you know, expect to have. And certainly for a while, between then and until 00:04:00say' I was twelve or thirteen, I was in the 'it's just a phase' sort of mindset. That I just have this passing physical attraction and that I'll be straight and normal like all the other

boys. And, you know, that wasn't really the case, and I developed romantic

feelings for a close friend of mine when I was thirteen. So from there, I

identified as gay, because that's sort of all I really knew back then. But, over

the years I've come to realize that my viewpoint is very fluid. It's very

difficult for me to say I am strictly attracted to men, I'm strictly attracted

to women, I'm strictly attracted to cis-gender or transgender individuals. So

it's become a very difficult thing to sort of box in, that's why I opt to use

the pansexual identifier, 00:05:00as of the past few years. Now that I've been in

college, I've learned more about myself, and how these sorts of things work.

GREEN: Absolutely. Was that difficult for you, when you're developing feelings when you're thirteen, for this friend of yours, when you were in D.C. or

Arlington schools?

HERNANDEZ: Oh yeah, yeah, it was difficult. Middle-schoolers are really, really

shitty individuals. Yeah, so coming out at thirteen it's not really the- I

wouldn't say that it's the smartest idea but that's a really poor choice of

words. I would say that it was a very difficult decision, and it had a lot of

really poor consequences because being somebody different, in a middle school a setting, sets you up for being bullied and all that, right? You become a target. So I came out when I was thirteen, eighth grade, end of middle school. 00:06:00And the other kids just sort of ate that up. 'Oh here is the different kid. Let's make fun of him.' Stuff like that. And it sucked. Let's face it, it sucked. I'm not going to beat around the bush. It was a horrible experience. I won't say that I wish I didn't do it because frankly it's something that needed to happen at that point in time. I needed to sort of accept that I was different than some of my other peers, right?

GREEN: Absolutely. For a lot of people that's very early. People struggle with

that, identifying themselves, for a really long time.

HERNANDEZ: Certainly. Yeah, for me I believe I started puberty at about the same

age, as I mentioned earlier, when I was about eight or nine. A little earlier

than most other males from a, I guess, scientific stand point.

GREEN: Mhmm.

HERNANDEZ: So I guess I sort of had that cognizance a little earlier than most.

Having access to 00:07:00the internet also certainly helped with that because I was able

to read up on things like 'homosexual attraction, what's gay sex?' And even the

basics like 'what's a condom? How to use a condom,' you know, safe sex stuff. So

I think that that combination of things lead me to be a little more cognizant

of things of that nature, of any sort of sexual or romantic nature.

GREEN: Absolutely. And I know that a lot of gay and lesbian people struggle with

depression, that I'm sure is linked to that kind of bullying and ostracization.

Did you experience that when you were a teenager?

HERNANDEZ: Oh certainly, of course. I do experience depression from bullying in

general. Or I did I should say, when I was younger because I was, I look a

little different. I 00:08:00was overweight compared to the rest of my peers. I was a

smart kid, so it made me an easy target for bullying, certainly. Being even more

different with, you know, not being straight in a hetero-normative society, also

sort of added a little fuel to the fire. Middle school really bad, high school,

you know, not as terrible because I had more peers, more people to sort of

communicate with, less isolated. I think college was really when I hit my

stride, when I really became comfortable with who I was. And I adopted this

notion of not having to come out anymore. I just am who I am.

GREEN: So when you say you came out: To your friends, to parents, your

community? How did the people close to you react?

HERNANDEZ: So my parents wanted to send me to some flavor of conversion therapy,

when I first came out. After 00:09:00talking to a priest, who we were relatively close

with, it was clear that that was definitely not the answer, and that he said

that we should try to work things out as a familial unit, which we did. We um, it took a while for my parents to sort of understand this notion of not being

straight [laugh]. And it took a while. My mother was actually in tears when she

found out because she was worried that kids where going to bully me at school,

which obviously, we know, did happen. Not too much you can do about that. My dad

on the other hand, had a very null reaction because he just didn't know how to

react. It was as if I was an alien, from another planet almost, because it was

so foreign to him in his world, this notion of non-heterosexuality. But over the

years, we worked it out together. 00:10:00My parents are very accepting of me now. My

close friends are very accepting of me now. Coming out to my peers in middle

school, you know, everything blew up cause middle schoolers are shitty.

GREEN: Right.

HERNANDEZ: But you find other friends. You find people that empathize with you

more, and you move on.

GREEN: Was that a conversation that you had with your parents, or was this

something that came about finding internet searches, or how did this develop?

HERNANDEZ: Um so, my mother found out. Because I was talking with another

student, a classmate in middle school, who is also closeted, so he was asking me

about coming out, about accepting your identity, your sexual identity, or your

sexuality. And my mother comes in and she asks me 'what's up?' I try to hide it

from her. She freaks out. I freak out. She reads the chat logs 00:11:00between me and

this classmate. And yeah, she's incredibly shocked, to the point of tears. Like

not necessarily a negative reaction, but just she was very surprised. Sort of

like, if you're in a haunted house and the little ghost pops up from around the

corner, something like that, where you just don't know how to react at first,

and you just find yourself very surprised. After that, after talking with my

mother, she said that I should talk to my dad, right. And so I did that. I

remember the scene very clearly: He was sitting in his lazy boy watching

television. I came up to him and I said 'hey dad, uhhhh, I think I'm gay.' And

he's got this very blank expression on his face but it's the kind of blank

expression where you know that he's trying to figure out what to say but he

doesn't know what to say. And so he's like 'are you sure?' and I'm like 'yeah.'

Then I go back to my room and play video games 00:12:00 [laugh].

GREEN: wow.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah so that took a little longer. Sort of like a defrosting almost,

sort of engaging the conversation.

GREEN: Do you think that their background being supplanted in America, was that

different culturally from?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah I would say so. Although they were immigrants in America,

there's still a community of other Filipino immigrants and they're all a part of

that, right? So although they're no longer in the Philippines, they still have

that community of fellow Filipino Americans, the Fil-Am community. So they

still, you know, were in this, I don't want to say they were in this mindset but

I'm at a loss for a better way to phase it, of just like everybody's 00:13:00straight and

if you're not straight than I don't know what is going on anymore, that kind of

thing. That's a very grand simplification of some attitudes towards gender and

sexuality among conservative Filipinos, but that's a massive digression, right.

GREEN: Right. So by the time you got to Tech, you already had established this

as part of your identity, and your feelings, you knew yourself pretty well. Did

you know about the LGBTQ community here at Tech before you came?

HERNANDEZ: Um I had done a mild amount of research. Once again, thanks internet!

GREEN: Yeah.

HERNANDEZ: So I looked up on some aggregate websites that rate colleges on how

LGBT friendly they are. Virginia 00:14:00Tech seemed to be pretty friendly, despite

being in Southwest Virginia. And so I just sort of came at it with a relatively

blank mindset. Although I will admit that when I first started college, I did

re-closet myself. I said I'm not really going to tell anybody that doesn't need

to know because I sort of made the mistake of being very obnoxiously open about

it high school and I didn't want to repeat the same mistakes by driving people

away by quote on quote 'forcing' my identity out into the open. So, I think that

was a bit of an over correction, but I guess it worked out in the end because I

was able to sort of reevaluate my identity then. No longer am I 00:15:00the exclusively

homosexual macho guy blah, blah, blah. I used to be not very cognizant of trans

issues, for example, coming out of high school. So in college I got the

opportunity to relearn that.

GREEN: That's really interesting because a lot of people who come out in

college. That's their first opportunity, being away from home and feeling like

they can explore.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah I guess where I come from in Arlington is an incredibly liberal

place. So I had the opportunity to be open there, but coming out is really a

continual process, you enter a new community, where there are a significant

number of unknowns. I go from my class of fifteen hundred students, only maybe

seven of which are going here to Virginia Tech, and so I enter an 00:16:00 environment

with more than forty-thousand individuals, right, when you take into account

students, faculty, staff, residents. And I only know maybe ten of them, right.

So there's this completely vast number of unknowns. So naturally, my reaction

back then, well I guess my natural reaction back then, was to play it a little

safe, so to speak, just see what everybody is like before I divulge such information.

GREEN: You think people will make assumptions about you before they really get

to know you? Was that the fear?

HERNANDEZ: Um I suppose yeah. And at the same time, people tend to do that.

Profiling is a way to efficiently figure out what people are like before you

talk to them. Because getting to know every single individual you meet on the

street is a very costly operation, right. That's why we as humans do this thing

called 00:17:00 profiling.

GREEN: Yes absolutely. And just for the record, you came to Tech in 2010, is

that right? You're a senior?

HERNANDEZ: I came to Tech, yes, Fall 2010.

GREEN: Ok, and you'll be graduating in the Spring, yes?

HERNANDEZ: I graduated last Spring

GREEN: Oh you already graduated. That's right. I wasn't sure. All the

information I was reading up on on the Division of Student Affairs is very dated.

[laughs] So they were talking about you as a junior and I was like ok, is he a senior?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah that was from 2013, yeah.

GREEN: But while you were here, you started OSTEM? And you're the president and

founder of the chapter here? Can you tell me about the experience of doing that?

HERNANDEZ: Certainly, yeah. And so, let's give a little background to this

story, cause everybody loves exposition. So, I believe it was February 00:18:002012, I

went to a conference for LGBT students in technology, in the technological

fields. I graduated with a degree in computer science, and so back then I was a

student in computer science. And so I traveled out to this conference, it was

called OUTC, Out for Undergrad Tech Conference, and it was there that I met an

individual named Eric Patridge [sp?] who was then a PhD candidate at Yale

University and is presently the president of OSTEM, the national organization.

So after talking with him, and meeting up with a bunch of other individuals that

were part of this national network, really, of LGBT students in STEM fields, it

sort of planted this idea in my head that, you know, maybe there should be

something like this on Virginia Tech's campus, because, although we may have

students organizations that cater to 00:19:00LGBTQ individuals, there's not really, at

the time, there weren't really any resources for LGBTQ individuals to grow

themselves as professionals. So, I come back, finish the year, and over the

summer, this is just brewing in my head, that, you know, this is something that

the university sort of needs. I think. So I come back, it's August 2012, and I

talk to an individual named John Gray Williams, who had recently finished his

Master's at the University of Delaware, I believe. He was also a Hokie alum,

graduated undergrad in two thousand and something. I'm not gonna say what,

because if he hears this he's going to destroy me if I mess up when he graduated.

GREEN: Like I just did. [laughs] 00:20:00 Sorry.

HERNANDEZ: So we talk about this notion. I gather a couple other individuals who

were also interested in the idea of establishing a professional organization

that supports LGBTQ individuals that, you know, are in the STEM fields.

Admittedly, the STEM fields part was a bit of an unnecessary constraint on the

needs of the university, because overall, just there weren't any professional

organizations at all that assisted LGBTQ individuals. The STEM part was just a

rather convenient way because it was already an established national

organization. There are resources to help me establish a chapter here. And so

in, I believe it was September 2012, or 00:21:00so, I went and established the Virginia

Tech chapter of Out in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics with two

of my peers. And from there it's just been, you know, it's been very interesting

starting an organization that's really fresh, very new, even nationally. The

organization, I guess had its roots from a focus group back in 2005, but there

wasn't any sort of chapter-level growth until 2011, one year prior to when we

started establishing the Virginia Tech chapter here. And so, it's hard, starting

a new organization. Networking with the proper faculty and staff to get, you

know, resources to be able to put the word out there that 'hey, there's this

organization that can help you be comfortable as an LGBTQ 00:22:00professional,' rather

than organizations that I guess are more student-based, right. Because back

then, there were only three organizations. There was the LGBTA, which is now

known as Hokie Pride, there was QGNA, the Queer Grads and Allies, which is now

QGPA, Queer Grads, Young Professionals and Allies, and then there's the LGBT

Caucus, which supports faculty staff. And so, you got this, I guess, horizontal

stratification of age groups, demographics, things like that. And 2012 was the

year when more specialized vertically-integrated groups came in. Things like

OSTEM, which supported STEM students, so people that wanted advice

professionally. There was QPOC, which, you know, goes across all three strata,

that supports queer people of color. At the time there was talk of 00:23:00 establishing

a trans working group. I actually don't know what the status of that is. But

once again, another type of organization that ignores what your academic status

is, and really pinpoints a more, I want to say permanent part of your identity,

or a more, I guess, a less transient part of your identity, so to speak.

GREEN: And so, this organization, for you, OSTEM, is about fighting prejudice in

the workplace?

HERNANDEZ: Yes it's about fighting prejudice in the workplace and it's about

empowering students to be truly comfortable as themselves in the workplace,

because I've heard so many stories and I've had so many friends who have gone on

to be professionals, but they've had to seclude themselves, they've had to

re-closet themselves, they've had to put up the fortress, so to speak, and

that's something that I believe isn't 00:24:00really that healthy for both emotional

well being as well as professional growth. Because if you're not going to be

comfortable as yourself as a whole, if you spend energy trying to shield

yourself away, or keep secrets, right, that's less energy that you can use to

being a better professional, being a better individual, and so, it sort of takes

away from your integrity.

GREEN: What kind of activities does the group engage in, or how does it support

its members? How's it reach out to the community?

HERNANDEZ: So, back when we first started, it was just meetings, you know, 'hey

let's meet at a room in Squires every two weeks and discuss, you know, X topic,'

for example. It was very loose back then because it was a new organization. And

it's still a very young organization. 00:25:00There was a week where we talked about

laws pertaining to non-discrimination acts, things like that. There's this book

called the Corporate Equality Index that the Human Rights Campaign puts out

every year and we talked about that as well as other resources that individuals

can use when they're researching the friendliness or the comfort of the

environment that they are going to be in when they're applying to work for a

company. There was stuff like what's interesting research in the field right

now, what's interesting in terms of academics, and so as its grown we've also

started sending people to our national conference. It happens once a year, all

of the O-STEM chapters get together and discuss things that not only affect the

national organization 00:26:00but things like how to run more effectively run individual

chapters, things that are pertinent in the environment today such as workplace

equality. How to get a grant, for example, even things like that, that aren't

necessarily LGBT specific but are still very useful for individuals in the STEM

fields, and basically providing resources to educate and inspire students and

other STEM affiliated individuals to do their best, be themselves and go on to

do great things without being hindered by the 'closet,' quote on quote.

GREEN: And you have some great collaborators, I understand you were working

with Google and Opower and you have been drawing on their resources, they're

supportive of the organization?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah, and so that's always something that's very reassuring to see

as a student is 00:27:00that there are these employers that do recognize the importance

of being leaders when it comes to workplace equality, companies such as Google,

Opower, IBM, the CIA even. So if you go to the O-STEM national website there's a

list of national sponsors and at least for the past couple years, the CIA has

been incredibly supportive of us, there's just all sorts of companies out there.

ALCOA, aluminum manufacturing, like, where did that come from? Or like BASF,

which is, I believe, a chemical engineering company. But there are all of these

individuals and when these organizations, these corporations, these companies,

they show their support, it's very encouraging for students to see that there

are organizations 00:28:00that embrace and support who you are and on the more practical

side, they also provide resources such as funding, mentorship, swag so to speak,

you know, promotional materials I believe is the technical term for that, but

lets face it, we call it swag, right. Things like that.

GREEN: That's awesome that you've gotten that started here. And I understand

that your work with the faculty here, and staff, was a really positive

experience in starting OSTEM.

HERNANDEZ: Oh yeah absolutely. Because it's not just the corporate sponsors that

are important, because not everybody wants to go work in the industry after they

graduate. It's also important to have faculty and staff that are supportive of

an organization for individuals that wish to pursue academia further, right. A

lot of 00:29:00people worry about even going to grad school, people worry about

re-closeting themselves. I know of an individual who has had trouble publishing

her own papers because she was formally a he, so to speak, right. And so this

individual, when she transitioned from male to female, there were so many

problems, not just with publishing but, like, the atmosphere among her

colleagues. And so, it's not just about the importance of workplace equality,

but also about how things are in academia, because in some senses if you do

chose to become an academic, you want to be a professor, or you wish to do

interesting research, that's also a work place, right. That's something that is

often over looked. So having the 00:30:00support of faculty, staff members from all over

the place, whether it be with Career Services, Department of Engineering, or

Department of Science. Or I should say the College of Engineering or the College

of Science. Or even, I have an acquaintance in the College of Business that acted

as a mentor for me when I was doing some efforts with OSTEM as well as other

sorts of activities that were pertinent to professional development with other

organizations. So it's useful to have those resources, as well as the corporate

sponsors and all that. But I think having faculty and staff really hits closer

to home because these are the people that you learn from, that you interact with

potentially on a day-to-day basis. And I think that's certainly a very powerful

tool in 00:31:00getting individuals to understand that they can be comfortable with

themselves, who they are, whether it be in academia, in industry, or in general.

GREEN: Absolutely. Do you have any stories that you would like to share with us

from OSTEM, from members that maybe this helped?

HERNANDEZ: Let's see, so I know an individual, uh let's call her Claire.

GREEN: Ok. Claire.

HERNANDEZ: Because that is the name of a trans individual in comic book that I

actually read, that I follow. But that's also a complete and utter digression.

GREEN: [laugh]

HERNANDEZ: So Claire. Claire, when I had first met her went by Clint. Clint and

Claire. So I had known her as Clint 00:32:00before. And this person was just someone

that I saw randomly in a dorm hall but was a friend of a friend. But

coincidentally at the time that I had started OSTEM, Clint had started

transitioning to Claire. So with OSTEM, as well as other organizations such as

the then LGBTA, Claire was able to be more comfortable with her identity as a

transgender woman. So having that community there, those people that empathized

with her, and are similar to her, it creates a support network for individuals

that go through anything like that, whether it be a transition or coming out of

the closet or both. I think that having the organization there creates a 00:33:00community. And having the community there creates a support network for

individuals that are experiencing tough times. And so now, Claire is a very

confident woman. She is very outgoing and she's doing splendidly. She is going

to graduate, I believe, this year and she's going to go off and do incredible

things. I think it's with the help of the community that OSTEM, sort of

coincidentally I guess, built. She's more confortable and more strong individual

than before.

GREEN: That's wonderful, and it's also great to hear that the LGBTQ community is

being more inclusive of transgendered people. Because that is one thing you hear

a lot, that not all gay and lesbians are as accepting of trans, even though

everyone kind of gets lumped in together.

HERNANDEZ: 00:34:00Yeah. There has always been the notion of LGB groups, right, and then

you got the 'T' groups, and then you have the 'Q' groups, and then it just turns

into this mess.

GREEN: So there is a lot of fractionalization in the groups and it's nice to

hear that, at least on this campus, it's been inclusive. What about the space

outside this campus, outside of the school directly, Blacksburg, is that a

positive place you thought, coming from Arlington?

HERNANDEZ: You know, initially, I did not think so but then again that was with

very, very little information. As I staid here, for more time, as I got to know

the people, you realize that sure they might have their own view points,

somebody might be a Christian or Catholic, 00:35:00or some other sort of stereotypically

antigay religious affirmation, but as you get to know people more, you realize

that a lot of people are still accepting despite whatever prejudices you

yourself might think of based off of where they're from or what their background

is, right. That's a very interesting lesson that I learned over the past four or

five years, was that, although this area is quote on quote pretty red, end

quote, the people here are still very friendly to you because at the end of the

day we're all people, right. It's not alienating to be lesbian, or gay, or

bisexual, or queer, or transgender, or anything like that. There are individuals

there that you are a 00:36:00human being, you're not a dick, so you deserve some modicum

of respect and politeness. And so, what I've seen, people tend to be pretty nice

individuals, once you get to know them, regardless of whatever predispositions

you may have of their background.

GREEN: Yeah. I think Blacksburg is kind of a unique microcosm in this Southwest

Virginia area.

HERNANDEZ: Certainly, yes.

GREEN: I don't know if you've heard anything about that from people that are

coming from this area to Blacksburg, if they think it's different than coming

from Northern Virginia?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah. College towns, in themselves, are very interesting because

there's always this afflux, well there's an influx and there's an afflux of

individuals, right. People come in. People go out. They bring their viewpoints,

their beliefs, their backgrounds with them. 00:37:00And with each individual, a little

bit gets left here in Blacksburg, well not necessarily left, but it alters the

landscape or how people think. So you've got people coming in from all over the

place. You experience a lot of different viewpoints. And I think people here in

Virginia Tech in particular really do embrace each other, as quote on quote 'the

Hokie Nation' because we're all just people at the end of the day trying to get

along. And it's not fair to discriminate against somebody else based off of some

arbitrary qualifier, such as sexual orientation, gender identity, race, sex, any

of that. It's silly, and a lot of people here do realize that because you've got

people from all over the place coming to this town to better themselves.

GREEN: Absolutely. We all get to leave our imprint, 00:38:00hopefully. It sounds like

you've left a pretty big one here actually on the community, which is great!

Going back to the campus, you mentioned in a blog post, on Gobbler Connection,

that Virginia Tech has 'Safe Zones,' which is a program which designates faculty

and staff areas that are LGBTQ friendly. I have never heard of that before.

HERNANDEZ: Really?

GREEN: Can you explain that?

HERNANDEZ: Ok then. So here's a shout out to a certain individual, her name is

Catherine Cortrupi, and I believe that she really spearheaded this notion of the

Safe Zone movement. So the idea behind a Safe Zone; it's an individual or it's a

space where individuals are free to be themselves without fear of

discrimination. You don't have to worry about being targeted because of your

sexual orientation, your gender identity, your gender expression, 00:39:00your sex, your

race, any of that. It's a 'Safe Zone.' And so how it works is individuals apply

for certification to be a safe zone. They go through trainings. And admittedly

it does eat up a bit of time but I think that it's valuable for the community,

for faculty, staff, and even students who, students can also apply for this

program, to let others know that they are a 'Safe Zone.' They are safe

individuals to speak with. Because although you may have the belief that nobody

should be discriminated, it doesn't mean anything if nobody knows about that, if

you keep it to yourself, because you sort of mask your support of the community

by not being visible about it. So the Safe Zone provides visibility, and I think

that's the most important 00:40:00thing, is that it provides visibility of safe spaces

and individuals to the community, so that we know who we can talk to and be open with.

GREEN: So this is additional training that faculty and staff go through. Education?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah education. Things like trans issues, STIs, depression, things

that aren't necessarily LGBTQ specific, just a series of topics that are deemed

important to providing a safe space for discussion.

GREEN: And you said, this was 2013 again, that the College of Engineering only

had fifteen such Safe Zones, compared to the Liberal Arts College that had

forty; has that changed?

HERNANDEZ: I 00:41:00believe that has changed. So I've been in discussions with a

certain Associate Dean of Student Affairs in the College of Engineering, who I

will not name. And no, I mean this individual has been really supportive and

they're fantastic. Cause this individual was somebody who I talked to when I was

first trying to set up OSTEM. And so, what has been said in the past is, and I

will go on record for this because I think it needs to be put out there, that

I've been told that professors are too busy. They don't have enough time to

participate in the Safe Zone Program. They are supportive but there's just not

enough time to go through the training because it does take a little time. You

know, that's an incredibly valid point. For the most part, I understand the

rationale behind 00:42:00that. But at the same time, the visibility is really just

what's so important. And even if you may be a supportive individual, I think the

visibility is the kicker in changing the climate within this university. There

are a lot of very supportive individuals here at Virginia Tech, but there's less

visibility compared to other universities such as the University of Maryland,

right, which has over thirty organizations last I checked. Or like even the

University of Texas at Austin. They have all sorts of clearly visible

organizations to help support LGBTQ individuals. That was something that

Virginia Tech, the College of Engineering lacked. Which is why the Safe Zone

Program exists. But since then, I would like to say that things have changed.

I'm going to be 00:43:00honest, I haven't checked up in a while. But I know that overall

the climate has been improving pretty drastically, in terms of the visibility. A

lot of the work that John Gray Williams over int Career Services has done to

promote, I guess, openness, to inspire leadership within the community,

something very nebulous like that. But I mean let's face it; I was down here

this weekend because of an event that he organized, which was a networking event

for LGBTQ students, alumni, professionals, faculty, staff, right, to increase

visibility. Which is the key factor here.

GREEN: Is that something we can follow up on or that students can look up; who's

a designated Safe Zone?

HERNANDEZ: Yeah sure. So last I 00:44:00checked, the Safe Zones where being marked on a

Google map, with lots of little pins on a little pin board. Ever since then, I

don't know if there is an official registry of who is safe zone certified or

not. You may want to talk with somebody at MPS (Multicultural Programs and

Services) about that. Because I think that Safe Zone, the program, falls under

the jurisdiction of the LGBTQ coordinator there.

GREEN: Well we will definitely follow up on that, and I'll let you know.

HERNANDEZ: Because I think it would be great to see if we have that sort of

visible metric. I know that ever since I made those remarks at the Aspire!

Awards reception back in 2013, I know that for example the Smith Career Center

has gotten 00:45:00better certifications for how much they support the LGBTQ community

through this national organization called Out for Work. Out for Work gives

career centers at universities one of four classifications: bronze, silver,

gold, or like gold plus, something like that, A+gold, I don't know. It's really

good is what it is. And so prior to all of this stuff, me talking with John

Gray, starting OSTEM, getting the Aspire! Award, Virginia Tech's Smith Career

Center was at a bronze certification, right. And so how it sort of works is if

you have the gold plus certification you've got 100 out of 100, that's your

score. If you have gold, it's like 90 to 100, or 90 to 99, 00:46:00silver is like 70 to

90, and then bronze is like you applied.

GREEN: [laughs]

HERNANDEZ: And you didn't get one of the other three ones. So it was cool that

we have a bronze certification but it means nothing, if it's sort of the catch

all, if it's the default, if it doesn't denote that we've made any sort of

excellence in that regard, aside from applying for the certification. Since

then, I believe it was one or two weeks after that Friday, after the awards

ceremony, John Gray let me know that we got a silver certification, which was

actually surprising, and a great surprise. It was really nice. And then

recently, I believe that we now have a gold certification. So we're among the

upper echelon in career centers that support LGBTQ individuals. I think that the

amount of growth there has just been incredible. Like 00:47:00that's great.

GREEN: That's very encouraging. And I want to talk about the Aspire! Award and

what that meant to you.

HERNANDEZ: Ok. So I'll admit that it was a bit out of left field. John Gray,

among other individuals, nominated me for the Award for Creative Leadership. But

nobody told me about it!

GREEN: [laughs]

HERNANDEZ: So I get an email in February, March maybe, saying 'hey you've been

nominated for this award. We'd like to recognize you for your excellence in

Creative Leadership, etc. etc.' So for me, in a sense, it was sort of a

validation to myself that what I was doing, this work with OSTEM, was making a

meaningful impact on the university, that I wasn't just some kid making his 00:48:00 own

special interest club just for the heck of it. That what I was doing was having

a real impact on the university. And that for me was, let's face it, it was

gratifying. It was awesome! Like, I felt so good about it, but I did not like

waking up at 8am to go to Owens Banquet Hall for that reception.

GREEN: [laughs]

HERNANDEZ: Because I hate waking up at anytime that isn't 10am, let's face it.

Aside from that, for me it was just nice having, you know, recognition. It was

nice for the organization, for OSTEM, to have that recognition by the university

that, yeah, now we're a player. We're taking steps to improve the climate,

improve the environment here at Virginia Tech. And it was a very satisfying 00:49:00feeling. What I was specifically nominated for was the fact that I had founded

OSTEM, that myself as a queer person of color, as an individual in the STEM

fields, some of which are actually not very typically diverse. Computer Science,

my field, is a mild exception when it comes to sexual orientation, but otherwise

yeah, not terribly diverse. So being there to step out and say 'hey we can't let

this go on. We can't let Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics, the

four things that sort of drive progress when it comes to, you know, almost

anything really. They can't be dominated by conservative minded straight white

males 00:50:00and they're only 30s to early 50s, right. We can't let it all be Dilberts,

right. We can't let all STEM just be Dilbert, Dilbert, Dilbert, Dilbert.' There

needs to be some sort of diversity there, and to be recognized as somebody

fighting for that, that was very powerful for me. To say 'hey I'm putting my

neck out there to help better the environment for those that follow in my

footsteps, that tread the path of a queer individual in the STEM fields.' Being

able to make that environment better, that's what I was nominated for, and

having the opportunity to do that was very powerful.

GREEN: I hope that's 00:51:00a representation of a way forward for the school.

HERNANDEZ: Oh I absolutely hope so. Aren't we getting gender neutral, at least,

bathrooms in the near future?

GREEN: Someone mentioned that they hoped Virginia Tech would do that, but I

don't know if Virginia Tech has a plan yet to do that.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah. Um there's a digression that I won't go into, alright.

GREEN: [laughs] No, you can.

HERNANDEZ: Oh ok then, I don't know.

GREEN: State your piece.

HERNANDEZ: This could be very dangerous because it

involves the Board of Visitors.

GREEN: Oh.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah. So do you know of an individual named Shelli Fowler?

GREEN: It sounds familiar but-

HERNANDEZ: Her wife, oh God, I'm a horrible person for forgetting her name, but

her wife came to the university several years ago, I think more than ten years

ago, to, you know, 00:52:00work as a professor, brought Shelli along with her, and the

Board of Visitors like terminated something. And it was basically really shitty

because it was like partner benefits and then suddenly no partner benefits. And

so the Board of Visitors, to my knowledge, has been very like, on and off. It's

very difficult to deal with them when it comes to university wide issues such as

gender-neutral bathrooms even. Like, don't even consider gender-neutral housing

because that's insane, right, but just gender-neutral bathrooms, of all things.

That in itself is a struggle. So it's sort of like issues with how the Board is

appointed and the refresh cycle of when board members leave and come on. It

becomes really 00:53:00tricky to build and retain momentum for initiatives such as

gender-neutral housing or bathrooms.

GREEN: I think historically, with almost all LGBT issues, it's always come from

the ground up, you know, it's always come from students and the public putting

pressure on the institutions that be.

HERNANDEZ: Yes! That's definitely it. And I hope that anybody that listens to

this very long winded discussion that, you know, you step up because it's all

about you. It's the grass roots movements. Because you can't really expect

anything to come down from the sky above, even though that's how gravity works.

It starts with us as individuals before we bring it to larger organizations, and

institutions, 00:54:00and even further up than that, like federal initiatives, national

initiatives. It all has to start with us as the individuals.

GREEN: I want to go back to a that statement you made earlier, referring to

yourself as 'a queer person of color.'

HERNANDEZ: Uh huh.

GREEN: Because you have to know that just using the term 'color' is very

deliberately vague.

HERNANDEZ: Uh huh.

GREEN: And I was wondering, if you see your ethnicity and your sexuality ever at odds?

HERNANDEZ: So the short answer to that is yes. The more detailed answer, which

is the digression that I said that I was not going to go into, but it appears

you forced my hand, is that in the Philippines, at least to my knowledge, in

the culture there, there is not a lot of understanding about 00:55:00 non-cis-gendered,

or non-heterosexual individuals. The notion that gender and sexuality have to be

linked for individuals, for men in particular, that find themselves to be

homosexual, but due to societal pressures, they have to act and live as women,

right, almost like a forced gender dysphoria. I think that that's something that

I find very strange about Filipino culture. And I think that's certainly one of

the things that went through my parents' minds was that 'oh he's gay, what if he

wants to be a woman next.' I obviously wouldn't know if this is true because I

never asked them about that. But it's always something that's lurked in the back

of my mind. Because it seems that a lot of times, there's this very large

disproportion of individuals who identity as 00:56:00homosexual, or bisexual, that feel

almost as if they have to act femininely because that's the social standard

there. And so, with my parents' upbringing, it was difficult for them to accept

that I was at the time when I came out to them I was a gay individual, who did

not present femininely and was most certainly cis-gender. It was a hard thing

for them to, sort of, resolve within themselves? I can't think of the right

word. English is such a frustrating language, you know. Anyway, it's funny that

you ask this question, because I did just come back from a trip to the

Philippines, a couple weeks ago, visiting the family, because my grandmother on

my father's side just turned ninety one. 00:57:00Happy birthday to her. So it was very

interesting being back in that environment of my family members who had not been

exposed to American culture, right, who were very classically Filipino. And so,

with all the guys you got to be the macho-man, you know, machismo. You know, all

the women are like very servile. Except that's less true for some of my

relatives. But it's about a half/half split. Anyway, and so it was strange being

there and really seeing this in action, where you've got, like, a bunch of

homosexual men who just act really girly. But they seem very uncomfortable with

it, but they do it anyway because that's the standard.

GREEN: I think that's 00:58:00an impression in the United States too, that gay men are

somehow more effeminate.

HERNANDEZ: I think here it's actually inverted. If you're a male who acts a

little more femininely, people presume that you are a homosexual. Over there

it's the other way round, where if you're a homosexual we presume that you're effeminate.

GREEN: Oh ok.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah very subtle inversion, but that's a pretty key difference.

GREEN: And I think you mentioned earlier about how in high school you felt like

you had to be very masculine, very macho, that that was part of your presentation.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah, I suppose yeah. I guess it was, yeah it was sort of that as well

as just sort of my lack of understanding of how gender roles came into the

equation as well as sexual orientation, sort of a byproduct of my upbringing, 00:59:00right. And so, when I was younger I was like 'I know don't like sissy boys blah,

blah, blah.' Like it was dumb. It was really stupid. But it was how I was sort

of implicitly raised by my family.

GREEN: If we can go on for a minute to speak about the historical memory of the

LGBQ community here, before we talk a little bit more about the future, I want

to ask you, if you can, to reflect on the generations of LGBQ individuals that

have come to Tech before you. What do you think the differences are between your

experience, over the last four years here, and theirs? What kind of change we

have we had? Because I know you've researched it.

HERNANDEZ: So before I go into this question, I really have to ask: Is there any

particular reason why you are referring to the community as the 01:00:00LGBQ community

as opposed to the LGB 'T' Q community?

GREEN: No. I simply misspoke. I have it written down as 'T' here.

HERNANDEZ: Oh ok than. Yeah I was very curious about that.

GREEN: No, no, no. I'm not being specific or intentionally excluding anyone.

HERNANDEZ: No worries. So, to repeat the question you're asking me: sort of my

impression of generations past, what the climate was here before. And so I did

hint a little bit about this with Shelli and her partner, Dana I think was her

name. In the past things were not that great like when, I believe it was Lambda

Horizons that first cropped up in the late 70s, wait 79, when was that? Thirty

five years 01:01:00ago! There we go. Like thirty five years ago. I think it's thirty

five years ago! But I can't do the math right now. It's fourteen plus twenty

one, that's definitely thirty five. Alright, I did that. So thirty five years

ago, an organization that wanted to support LGBTQ individuals could not be

granted a space on campus to meet. Absolutely unacceptable. Heathenist!

Blasphemy! But it happened in 1979, if memory serves, with Lambda Horizons. And

that was sort of a key moment for the community where they could start

gathering. It began the visibility. There was no more secretive hush hush cabals

in somebody's dorm room or apartment. Now there's a organized visible space for

people to meet, and 01:02:00to grow the community. And from then on it's sort of gone

up. We've, it went from Lambda Horizons to the LGBTA, QGPA, LGBT caucus, right.

Having those three organizations being the central focus during those respective

periods of time. And then, we started having things like Freedom to Mary Day,

which I guess is no longer relevant. So a little background: Freedom to Mary Day

was an event that was also very subtle protesting, where members of the

community would go out to the plaza between Squires and Donaldson Brown, and

we'd announce vows to fight for marriage equality in Virginia. Lo and 01:03:00behold, we

now have marriage equality in Virginia. But you know, it's still events like

those, increasing the visibility, that have sort of been the theme over the

thirty plus years. Creating more visible spaces to affirm individuals of their identities.

GREEN: So we go from having an LGBTQ organization denied to your being awarded

for your work in OSTEM. So I think that is an indication of how far this school

has come in thirty five years, hopefully.

HERNANDEZ: Yeah. Gender-neutral bathrooms, gender-neutral housing.

GREEN: There we go. That's the next step to furthering equality here in the

school. Is there anything that you wish I had asked or you want to address?

HERNANDEZ: Well you know, 01:04:00since we talked about the past, let's talk about the future!

GREEN: Yes!

HERNANDEZ: Right. So once again to those listening, it is October 26th 2014

GREEN: [laughs]

HERNANDEZ: 5pm. And so, there's a lot of things going on. The landscape is

evolving here at Virginia Tech. Over with MPS, now that there are all these

organizations popping up left and right that support the LGBTQ community in

different ways. We're trying to organize under some flavor of umbrella in order

to pool resources and to strengthen the community. That didn't exist before.

Before it was Catherine Cotrupi, in her role as the LGBT coordinator at MPS,

sort of herding cats together, almost like. But now there is so much

collaboration between the organizations, like OSTEM and QGPA, 01:05:00they're having a

movie screening in the near future, jointly together, cosponsoring. You've got

all the organizations cosponsoring the Lavender Ceremony, which is an LGBTQ

graduation ceremony that happens the Thursday before graduation. So I think what

the future holds is just a lot of collaboration between individuals instead of

there being these isolated pockets of communities or individuals. Now we're

starting to come together to become one big central community. And then, you

know, we'll all bond together as part of the Hokie Nation, yay! And I know that

sounds really trite and dumb, and I said it in a very dumb and trite voice, but

in honesty, I think that's the direction that we as a university are going in,

is that we are collaborating more. We're becoming 01:06:00more cohesive as a community.

And I'm very excited to see, you know, come back in fifteen, twenty years to see

what the community is like, just as individuals who graduated in say 1983, they

come back, and they see that the landscape has changed so dramatically. I want

to see that for myself when I come back in fifteen to twenty years.

GREEN: I hope that does happen. I really do, and I hope that this is a part of

it: having everybody come out and contribute their voice to this project. And

again, we thank you so much for coming out.

HERNANDEZ: Oh thank you for having me.

GREEN: Absolutely, it's been our pleasure.