Oral History with Janelle Harden, October 31, 2000 (Ms2002-001)

Cook: My name is Susan Cook I'm interviewing Janelle Harden. It's October 31,

at 12:00. Janelle, could you say your full name and your date of birth.

Harden: Janelle Torreè Harden, 26 June 1978.

Cook: Could you spell your middle name?

Harden: T-o-r-r-e-è, accent on the last e.

Cook: Okay first I'd like to talk to you about where you're originally from.

Harden: San Antonio, Texas. I'm a long way from home. I was born into the Air

Force. Both my parents are in the Air Force. My dad thirty years and my mom

twenty. So, we were in San Antonio when I happened to be born then we moved

three months after I was born and we've been moving ever since. In ninety-four,

my father moved to Fairfax, Virginia and my mom and I stayed in Texas a little

bit longer. Then we came up. I started high school in Texas. I graduated high

school in Virginia and then came to college.

Cook: Wow, so you're use to all different kinds of situations.

Harden: Oh yes, all different.

Cook: 00:01:00So right before you came to Virginia Tech, you lived in Texas ... or Fairfax?

Harden: Well, it's weird. I had a very weird college experience. I originally

started college in Colorado Springs at the Air force Academy and then I came to

Tech. So right before, I was in Colorado and then I came here.

Cook: How many years were you there?

Harden: In Colorado?

Cook: Yes.

Harden: It wasn't very long; it was only about three months.

Cook: Oh, okay.

Harden: I started school and I got really sick. Like my roommates had to wake me

up to make sure I was still breathing, I was real sick, and I came home.

Cook: What did you have?

Harden: The doctors still don't know. They couldn't figure out why I would just

stop breathing.

Cook: And they never found out?

Harden: No. I had various asthma tests, all these physical tests and I passed

all of them.

Cook: You're okay since 00:02:00 then?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: What started you on your path to Virginia Tech?

Harden: My mother! [Laughter] My mother made me apply to Tech. I didn't want to

come here because I wanted to go back to Texas or Georgia Tech or somewhere

different. But I'm glad she made me apply because Tech holds your acceptance for

a year. So when I got home I was able to call and say, "Can I get a room, any

room?" So they had a room for me and I was able to come on down and start school.

Cook: But, you had to recover first? When did you start at Tech?

Harden: I started in August and recovered.

Cook: I wanted to ask you for my purposes do you want to be called black or

African American?

Harden: African American.

Cook: Could you tell me something about your family's history that you 00:03:00 can

remember? For instance just go back a little like to your grandparents.

Harden: Oh, grandparents?

Cook: Yes. That's a start.

Harden: Well that's interesting! I only know my grandmothers. I don't know my

grandfathers. My paternal grandfather died when my father was sixteen so I

didn't know him.

Cook: How did he die?

Harden: From what I was told, he was a truck driver and he died, I want to say,

in an accident. I'm not quite sure of the details of the accident but he died.

My maternal grandfather--I don't know anything about him. Supposedly, he lived

in Baltimore and his sister called us and told us--well, she thinks that we're

her family. I'm not quite if sure we are. We still haven't figured out this

relationship. But, we went to this man's funeral who was supposed to be our

grandfather. I don't think he was because no one there looked like us! [Laughter]

Cook: Okay that's bizarre!

Harden: It is. None of them looked like us and they all had accents and we

don't. So I don't know--

Cook: You're not really sure if that aunt is your aunt?

Harden: 00:04:00Exactly. But that's interesting. My grandmother on my dad's side, so my

paternal grandmother, lives in Florida. She's in Miami. My maternal grandmother

died Good Friday, 1986 and she lived in Washington, D.C. I have a sister who is

in Florida, Miami.

Cook: What does she do?

Harden: She works for a church. She does financial consulting for various

churches in the Miami area.

Cook: Do you have brothers?

Harden: No, it's just the two of us.

Cook: Did your sister go to college, too?

Harden: No.

Cook: Is she younger or older than you?

Harden: Older. We're twelve years apart.

Cook: Oh that's a lot. You started to tell me about your mom and dad. They're

both 00:05:00in the Air Force?

Harden: They're both retired now.

Cook: What did they do in the Air Force?

Harden: My dad was nuclear weapons [laughter] and my mom is a nurse.

Cook: An R.N.[Registered Nurse]?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: I don't know about any of the levels--

Harden: They're both Majors and actually my dad went through the enlisted ranks

and then became an officer, which is unusual.

Cook: Did they go to college?

Harden: My dad did while he was in the service. My mom did right before she went

into the service.

Cook: What schools did they go to?

Harden: My dad went to Whalen Baptist which is in Texas and my mom went to

UT--well, she went to two schools. The first one was University of Maryland,

College Park. That's where she did her undergrad. Then she did her graduate

study at UT, Austin.

Cook: Wow! What were her degrees in?

Harden: 00:06:00Her undergraduate degree was in nursing from what I'm aware of. Then she

got her doctorate at UT, Austin and her master's at UT, Austin. They are both in Gerontology.

Cook: I heard UT, Austin is a wonderful school, really good school. And your

father, what was his degree in?

Harden: His degree is in Business, Business Administration.

Cook: That must have been an interesting life growing up with your parents in

the Air Force.

Harden: Yes. A lot of times with aunts, friends, lot of time with made up aunts!

Cook: Extended family?

Harden: Extended family. Yes.

Cook: So you grew up--since you grew up in a military environment, it was an

integrated community?

Harden: Yes we lived all sorts of places.

Cook: Did you ever live out of the country?

Harden: Yes. We lived in Canada. I guess that's as far out of the country as

I've been. My dad was in Turkey for a while. But, my mom and I--

Cook: That was before you were born?

Harden: No that was after I was born. My mom and I stayed where we were 00:07:00at the

time and he left then came back and got us. We went to Canada. We've lived all

over Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Washington, D.C., Virginia,

Portland, Oregon--I think I'm missing someplace.

Cook: When you were born and your mom--she was in the military at that time--do

they let mother's take a certain amount of time off?

Harden: I'm not sure how much time off she took, but she was able to take some

time off and then I started going to a sitter.

Cook: This is kind of strange question, but I think it's very revealing. Who was

your childhood hero?

Harden: [laughter]

Cook: It could be a person that you knew or you know I don't know-- sports

figure or a Hollywood film star or whatever.

Harden: Childhood hero? Gosh - because at different times I had different ones.

Cook: Well, just name a few then.

Harden: The earliest 00:08:00one I can remember was Mr. Snuffleupagus. That's the

earliest one I can remember. And then--it was never Barbie or anything like that

because I use to pop her head off!

[Laughter]

Cook: My sons swing her by the hair and then fling her!

Harden: Exactly! Then it became athletes like Florence Griffith Joyner, Jackie

Joyner-Kersey. My mom and my dad have always been people I look up to. My

cousin, Yolanda, was a big one especially coming through early teenage years,

preteen years. She was a big one.

Cook: Why was she a hero too?

Harden: Because my sister and I were so far apart, twelve years, my cousin,

Yolanda, and I are only five years apart so we were able to do more things

together. She taught me a lot--how to wear clothes and do my hair, if I wore 00:09:00makeup, how to put it on, how to talk to boys.

Cook: Are you still close to her?

Harden: Yes, definitely.

Cook: That's a good answer--it's a hard one. What did you want to be when you

grew up?

Harden: At first I wanted to be a lawyer and then I wanted to be a doctor, and

then I wanted to be an archaeologist. I was always changing. Finally, I got to engineering.

Cook: Is your family active in politics?

Harden: I would say my dad more than my mom. My dad is more outspoken then my

mom is. So, you are going hear him talk about it more than my mom. My mom is the

one who will stay up 'til one o'clock in the morning to watch all of the

debates. But, my dad is the one who will actually get in a political debate with you.

Cook: 00:10:00You really answered this question, but I'll ask it one more time. Did you

have any relatives that were major influences on you besides Yolanda?

Harden: Yolanda--my mom has been a real big one because of growing up in D.C.

and growing up in a single parent home with her and her sisters. I saw the

sacrifice her sisters made so my mom could go to school. So from birth, she's

always instilled in me, you have to have pride and education in the things that

you do because not everyone gets that chance. So, she's always been big.

Cook: She was getting her Ph.D. when you were--?

Harden: When I was in the fourth and fifth grade. So when she would go to class,

I would go to class with her. We would drive from San Antonio to Austin. We got

into this little ritual. She'd pick me up, we'd go to McDonald's, get on the

freeway and I'd sit in class and she'd sit in class. Then we'd do our homework

together. Then we'd drive back that night!

Cook: That's wonderful. We need more women to do that type of stuff.

Harden: She took a lot of time out, a lot of time out. The thing that I really

liked about her is--whenever I hear women say, it's not an excuse or anything

like that, I guess just different styles, when I hear them talk 00:11:00about--well I

had to give my child to my mom to take care of while I went to school or so on

and so forth--that might have been great for you, it was probably what you

needed to do, but I think my mom is extraordinary because she took me with her.

Cook: I do too!

Harden: She could have left me with a sitter or not gone to school at all. But

she saw opportunities not only for her but what it would mean for me. She took

me with her everywhere.

Cook: Which had to influence you.

Harden: Oh, yeah!

Cook: Also, we need professors that will allow that too. I've seen professors

that will.

Harden: Like when she went to Portland to do her research, I went with her. I

got to visit the elderly people. I didn't do too much with them but we did

exercises together and stuff.

Cook: You have a good woman for a mom.

Harden: I like her!

Cook: That's special. I think it's going to be very hard for you to 00:12:00explain this

question--where did you go to high school? I guess pick one that was majorly influential.

Harden: I'll say my first high school, John Marshall in San Antonio. That was a

big influence on me just because it was a mixed school, a very mixed school.

Cook: You mean all nationalities?

Harden: All nationalities. We had things like--we weren't divided by color in

this school. You were divided by the things you did. Like the track team hung

out together; the football team, the basketball team. What we called the

"kickers", which were all the cowboys and cowgirls.

Cook: I've never heard of that! [Laughter]

Harden: Yes that's how we were divided. In my high school, we had the Klan.

Cook: That was vocal?

Harden: They would write things on the wall and do things they weren't supposed

to do. But luckily we were such a close-knit family, in terms of the African

American community that the males in the groups looked out for the females. They

would miss class to escort us to different places especially because they knew

that the Klan was in the 00:13:00school. They knew that we would possibly get in

trouble. But they would hope that we wouldn't; everyone hoped that we wouldn't

but if we ever did, they would escort us to class or to our lockers.

Cook: But, still you have that fear?

Harden: Well, I don't know. My dad always taught me, don't react to the people

who think with the wisdom of fools. So, I can't say I've ever been afraid of

anyone. They didn't do--they never did anything harmful to a certain person.

They would do things like rip up lockers or spray things on the wall, that sort

of thing. I never saw or heard of anything they did where they attacked someone.

Cook: Did they also pick on--as far as what they sprayed--others, for instance,

Asians or Mexicans?

Harden: Exactly, 00:14:00exactly and my first high school--well it was never found out

who it was but then you could kind of narrow things down. I remember this one

girl, while we were at lunch, she was raped in our auditorium. Like I said, they

couldn't pinpoint who it was but you could narrow it down to certain people in

the school.

Cook: Was she black?

Harden: No, she was actually mentally disabled.

Cook: So, they couldn't tell if it was KKK?

Harden: Right!

Cook: Wasn't Texas the state where the black man was dragged--?

Harden: Right, Jasper, Texas.

Cook: That's so horrible!

Harden: So It's there, I guess because of that, it was a big influence on me in

terms of who I was going to be--who I was going to establish myself to be. I was

going to get an education regardless and go on to bigger and better things. If

you all want to do crazy things, that's fine, it's just I have a goal in mind

and I'm on this track and I'm going to stick to it. Luckily, I had teachers and

guidance counselors and so forth who since I was a 00:15:00freshman called me into their

office and gave me little things to do. Like your assignment for the week is to

look up one college in the career center and find out all you can about that

school. That's how I got acclimated to looking up things about colleges and they

had me writing a resume. I hadn't done anything but I'd write resumes about

organizations I was in. They really got me into; this is the track you're going

to be in. This is what you need to do to survive and to accomplish your goal.

Cook: That's wonderful. That's unusual, I think. Were they black or white?

Harden: No. All different races, just people who cared.

Cook: Male and female?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: My next question is what was your school life like but you've just

explained that. Were 00:16:00there a lot of military children there?

Harden: There were. There were because San Antonio is a big military area with,

I believe it was five bases. I believe they've closed one so now it's four but

at the time there were five military bases in that area.

Cook: Did you play sports or what extracurricular activities?

Harden: Track. I ran track for a while, played soccer, played volleyball. I was

a youth leader at my church, so I did that, choir, clubs, there was a

multicultural club at school.

Cook: What did you run in track?

Harden: The 200 and 400 and I jumped and did the relays. We went all the way to

state and when I came to Virginia my team went to Nationals.

Cook: Wow, I love track and 00:17:00 field.

Harden: I had a lot of fun and met a lot of people.

Cook: Do you feel you had an adequate education in high school?

Harden: I do, I do. I think it's what you make of it. My first school I know I

did - every single class! My second school being in Virginia and maybe it was

because I was new. I transferred in my junior year.

Cook: That's very hard.

Harden: It's hard to adjust. I spent a lot of time in the drafting lounge just

because no one ever went in there so I could draw and do things and never be

disturbed. I think the biggest difference was, in my first high school I

couldn't miss class because teachers would come and find you. In my second

school, I wouldn't go to class. I would spend two or three class periods in the

drafting lounge and still get A's in my classes. So, it makes you wonder what

the teachers are doing. Maybe they didn't care that you weren't there especially

if I could still get an A. It wasn't like I was taking regular classes. I was in

AP classes and honors classes. I could still get an A in your class and not be there.

Cook: That's more caring that they would come and hunt you down. Where was the

second school, Northern Virginia?

Harden: Northern Virginia, Fairfax.

Cook: Was that a big one?

Harden: Not 00:18:00as big as my first school. My first school, gosh, we had an open

campus and they kept the school at three thousand. It was a huge school. It

really was. People would move into that district just so their children could go

there. I know in my class when I came in we started off with a thousand. We are

the class of 1996 and there are 800 seniors--so just between the freshman and

seniors. And when I came to Virginia, my graduating class was 375--small. I

remember my first day; I was wandering around looking for the rest of the school

because it was so small compared to my first school.

Cook: You may have said this already but could you say the name of both high schools.

Harden: The first one is John 00:19:00Marshall and the second one is W. T. Woodson.

Cook: When you moved into Fairfax, was that an integrated community as well?

Harden: No.

Cook: So the high school was predominantly black?

Harden: No predominantly white.

Cook: Oh, okay!

Harden: The area that we moved into was not integrated at all. [Laughter] I

remember it took two weeks before I saw another African American. I ran up and I

hugged him, because I hadn't seen one! I guess it was the area that we moved

into. There just weren't a lot of--

Cook: Was this after your parents had retired?

Harden: My dad had, but my mom had not at the time. She had transferred jobs.

She wasn't active duty anymore. She was in the Reserves. So she was at NIH,

National Institutes of Health.

Cook: She had to do that commute?

Harden: Oh yeah, 45 minutes to an hour.

Cook: 00:20:00So, your high school was white. Was it a high SES area?

Harden: Hmmm--I don't know.

Cook: I always hear that Northern Virginia--you know, there's so much money and

the schools are so--

Harden: I don't know just because that stuff never interested me. So, I really

don't know. I really didn't dig into it. There were a lot of Asians in the

school and that was really different for me because I'd never seen that many

before. Those were your two main cultural groups in the school.

Cook: While you were growing up, did you have both white and black friends?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Or Asian or--

Harden: More white and black because in Texas there are not that many Asians.

Cook: In Texas, were there American Indians?

Harden: Yes, Indians, or Native American I should say.

Cook: You already told me what made you decide to come to Virginia Tech. How did

you become interested in the Corps?

Harden: Coming from the Air Force Academy, when I came to Virginia Tech, I had a 00:21:00year in service so my freshman year, I was not in the Corps but I was on active

duty status So I have a year in service from the Academy. So after that, you

need to do something. So then I joined the Corps in my sophomore year and came

through the Corps ranks. It was twofold. One, I wanted the Air Force career and

two; they paid for me to go to school! It worked out both ways.

Cook: What year are you in?

Harden: I'm in my senior year. I'm graduating in December, December 16th at 10 a.m.!

Cook: I know your parents will be excited. Tell me what your major is.

Harden: Mechanical engineering with a concentration in leadership.

Cook: What made you 00:22:00decide to go into mechanical engineering?

Harden: I started off in aerospace engineering and I wasn't happy at all. So, I

switched. I actually had an internship and my internship caused me to switch

because I saw that aerospace engineering was not what I wanted to do. So I

switched to an ME internship and I liked that a lot more. I don't regret the

decision at all.

Cook: Were you able to do the internship and still stay at Tech and be active?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: So, it was local?

Harden: Well, it wasn't so much local. But the way they set it up with me was at

Christmas, Thanksgiving, any breaks I could come back and work. I just needed to

call them like the day before and say I'm coming in tomorrow.

Cook: What was that company?

Harden: DOD, Department of Defense, specifically Defense Information Systems

Agency, Center for Integration.

Cook: You are very busy!

Harden: [Laughter]

Cook: You didn't even have vacations!

Harden: No, I was working. I worked through high school, worked through college.

Cook: What did you do in high 00:23:00 school?

Harden: Well, I baby sat and worked at a bookstore. So, after track practice,

I'd go and work at the bookstore. I'd come home and do my homework. A lot of

people say, Oh my gosh, your parents let you do that? But, it wasn't about 'they

let me.' Actually, my dad offered to pay me not to work. But, I wanted to. I

wanted to earn my own money. I wanted to be that independent.

Cook: That's very admirable. We need more people like you!

[Laughter]

Cook: I'm not sure if you have scholarships in the Corps but do you have any scholarships?

Harden: I have an Air Force scholarship and what's called a Carl Rowan

scholarship. Carl Rowan is a publicist out of D.C., Washington, D.C. I have one

of the scholarships that he gives out.

Cook: How did you get that one through Tech or-?

Harden: No, through high school. I was nominated by my teachers in high school

and you give a speech in front of about 15 people and they say, "We liked 00:24:00 your

speech. We feel that you're going to be positive in college. You're going to

make a difference." You have a choice. You could either accept one of seven

scholarships, and they are full rides, to schools of their choice or you can

accept just money and go to a school of your own choosing.

Cook: Which is what you did?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: That is for four years?

Harden: It could be for four years but I only got it for my freshmen year

because the Air Force picked up the last three years.

Cook: Oh, all right! Is that Rowan, R-O-W-A-N?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Could you tell me what you're going to do after you graduate?

Harden: I'm going into the Air Force and what I would like to do is my four

years in the Air Force and reevaluate if I'm going to stay or leave. But, I am

applying to grad school because I want to go into Urban Affairs and Planning.

What I want to do with 00:25:00that is social work in terms of opening up safe houses

for children and for battered women.

Cook: Gosh!

Harden: I'm a big humanitarian. I think everyone can be saved!

Cook: Very interesting with your technical and mechanical engineering side that

you have that humanitarian side. Do you love children?

Harden: I do. I do! For the longest time, I always said I didn't want kids. I

always called them rugrats. I don't want any of those! Then I started working

more and more at my church and in local areas. Like when I would go and visit my

sister in Miami, I would see kids on the streets. Well, I would see adults but

it really bothered me that there were children living on the streets. They would

rob and they would steal just because they needed food.

Cook: Little kids?

Harden: They were maybe 10 or 12.

Cook: This was in the past decade?

Harden: Yes, in Miami. It would really bother me when I would go down there.

Even when I would go to D.C., Washington, D.C., and I'd walk around. I'm going

in and out of museums and this child, maybe 15 or 16. I'm saying child like I'm

so much older! [Laughter] 15 or 16 and they're standing there 00:26:00asking for food,

trying somehow to get money to survive. They're simply trying to survive. I

don't think any child should be forced to survive in that way! Where you're put

out on the streets. I know so many families who came home and they thought their

rent was being paid; they thought the husband was paying the rent. He wasn't

paying the rent but he was stealing the money and having an affair. Whatever he

was doing and now they're out on the street. The kids are victims of that. It's

not their fault they're out on the street. And in terms of battered women, so

many of my relatives have been victims of sexual assault. Husbands have been

beating them and so forth. I don't think anyone should have to suffer in that

way. I know there are a lot of community groups and homes that you can go 00:27:00to but

I want to offer one that would have after school programs so that if the child

just needed tutoring or they just needed a meal. If they needed breakfast,

whatever they could come and get that. Get what they needed, basically.

Cook: Because they are our future!

Harden: Definitely!

Cook: Are you politically active in any way?

Harden: I like to think I am. I'm a part of what's called PAN and that's

Progressive Action Network and what that is, is the NAACP, Tree Care. NRV Care,

which is like the animals, animal shelters and so forth, Women's Space in the

Women's Center and so forth. It's a whole bunch of different activists on campus

and we get together every other week and we just talk about what our groups are

doing and what we can do to help each other. We keep that network going to

better our community whether it be Virginia Tech or nationally. Amnesty

International is on the records.

Cook: What does PAN stand for again?

Harden: Progressive Action Network. 00:28:00We took a bus up to the women's march. That

was last Sunday. Well, I wasn't there to picket in front of Target but in terms

of--Gosh! What is the term when someone is using cheap labor and they don't pay

you for it?

Cook: Is it slave labor?

Harden: Basically, exactly and we would go out to that Target, not necessarily

this Target, but there are Target chains in other areas that do use a real cheap

labor force, so we're picketing them.

Cook: Wonderful! That is very politically active! And you have time for all this?

Harden: I try to.

Cook: Do you go to church here and which community?

Harden: I go to St. Paul AME. Granted I'm 00:29:00Baptist. I go to St. Paul AME just

because there's a family atmosphere and I like that. I like having that sense of

community. If I need something, there's someone there.

Cook: Do you know Dr. Herndon?

Harden: Yes, Michael Herndon.

Cook: How was your reception when you first came into the Corps, did you have a

good experience?

Harden: I think everyone goes through the stage where you want to quit. So I was

dealing with that plus I was older than the freshman that were there. So I

didn't have the same interests as they did. When they would talk about where's

the nearest party or frat house that didn't interest me at all. So I had a

conflict with them about that because they didn't understand why don't you hang

out with us, why don't you do this? I was like I'm older than you; this doesn't

faze me at all.

Cook: Was that majorly the girls?

Harden: Girls and guys. 00:30:00Some of them didn't speak to me and that didn't bother

me just because I didn't hang out--nothing they did interested me. You know we

were in the Corps together but my goal was to get to the Air Force. My goal

wasn't to make new friends. In that regard, I think I was a little--maybe I

could have tried harder. I don't know. But, it was a different reception.

Cook: Did you have to go through being a RAT?

Harden: I did.

Cook: Even though you came in your sophomore year?

Harden: Exactly, even though I had gone through basic training 00:31:00and all of that.

Cook: Oh wow!

Harden: You still have to go through that and that kind of bothered me because

it seemed like 'old hat.' I felt like I was being a freshman for the third time

and I didn't like it. But, I stuck to it because it was part of the process to

get to my goal. It's part of the process. Got to go through the process!

Cook: Is that a year process?

Harden: Yes, I only did it August through November. Well actually let me take

that back, I only did it the first semester.

Cook: I can't imagine what that would be like.

Harden: It's different. I learned a lot about myself. What I would deal with and

what I wouldn't deal with and the power of 'no' and the power of standing up for

who I am. Just because you're in a subordinate position does not mean that you

don't have power. I think a lot of people especially freshman forget that fact.

That just because you're a subordinate doesn't mean you don't have any power

doesn't mean you don't have any say as to what happens to 00:32:00you. I let it be known

as a matter of fact my nickname got to be, Censored, because people said well, I

guess they felt like they couldn't do certain things around me or whatever. I

said, well that's fine. If I can make you feel on guard where you have to

question what you do around me, great! Call me whatever, Censor, Blackout, whatever.

Cook: That's just a compliment.

Harden: Exactly and when they gave me the shirt, they thought I was going to be

offended and I thought you're the one who's second guessing yourself, not me.

Cook: They gave you a shirt with Censor on it?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Well, how do you show your power in that type of situation? For instance,

I guess I have a stereotype image of you being yelled at or something.

Harden: One thing that you always have to remember in any kind of hostile when I

say hostile in terms of yelling and push ups and so forth in that environment is

that no one can put their hands on you. You can yell at me all you want. You're

the one that's going to lose your voice, not me. You can't put your hands on me

and what's the worst thing that you're going to do to me--yell. I can deal with

that until you don't have a voice anymore. So, it wasn't so much that I just 00:33:00didn't do anything but I would get down there in the dirt and do my pushups and

sit-ups and so forth and you couldn't tell me. Like the information we had to

learn in the terms of military history, the Corps history--knew it, took my

tests, did what I had to do. But, I wasn't one of those people who let me hang

out to get goody goody with you and let me figure out what buttons I can push

with you. No, I'm about getting through this process. Just get to the end. All

this unnecessary stuff okay cut that out, in terms of excess yelling and--I can

remember things like cleaning the bathroom--it wasn't bad things but 00:34:00 like,

what's the point? Cleaning the bathrooms, cleaning the hallways and stuff like

that. I understand that everybody has to pull those duties. It wasn't stuff like

that. It didn't make sense at first. Like why are we out here? But, after a

while I was like, it's not going to kill me to clean the hallway so it was

whatever. I remember one night; I was walking to the bathroom. I was just going

to the bathroom and one of the cadets, I want to say a sergeant stopped me and

he looked me up and down and wouldn't look in my face. I'm real big on that.

Look me in the face if you have something to say. He would look me up and down

and he was walking around me. He said, "So, I hear you're on the track team." I

said, "Yes." He said, "You look like it!" I thought, "Why, you have no business

staring at me!" So, whereas some freshman might have been, "Oh he stared at me!"

It wasn't right. I was uncomfortable. Well, I went and told my commanding

officer. I gave him an expectation as to what I expect you to do about this

situation. And that night--I had an apology by the end of the night.

Cook: Good for you! You do have power.

Harden: Exactly, you do have power and you don't have to deal with it.

Cook: Instead of letting it degrade you.

Harden: Exactly, you turn it around.

Cook: 00:35:00It's hard for me to imagine.

Harden: It is hard. I try to go over there, even now. I try to go over and talk

to the freshman, just whoever I pass in the hallway. Just keep your head up. You

can do it! Just little things to let them know there is someone who has gone

through it. A lot of the older people who are yelling at you, the sophomores,

juniors and seniors, some of them, yes, are yelling at you because they are

power tripping. Some of them are actually doing their job because they care

about you and they want you to be the best. So, you have to decipher who those

people are. Who to listen to you and who not to listen to. What you'll find is

that most of the people who are power tripping are the ones who are yelling at

you. The ones who care, who want you to be the best are the ones that are

pushing you. They are like, come on you can do it. I saw 00:36:00you make that mistake.

Why did you make that mistake? what's the correct way to do it. Do it again. Do

it again. It's the people who are going to push you, not the people that yell at

you. That's the big difference and I would hope that they would come to learn

and decipher.

Cook: Do you try to help women and men?

Harden: I do. I do. Actually I mentor four of the cadet freshman.

Cook: Are they women or men?

Harden: Both three men and one woman.

Cook: Is that typical for older students?

Harden: No actually, it's typical out of the engineering department. They're all engineers.

Cook: Oh, okay.

Harden: What the engineering department does our minority engineering

department, what they do is try as an older cadet try to match you up with

freshman cadets. If you're an older athlete, match you up with freshman athletes

who are in the engineering department so that you can help guide them and steer

them. Kind of, okay you should do 00:37:00this, don't do that, take this person, don't

take this person, rearrange your schedule. The freshman, they try to get them

into calculus and engineering fundamentals classes together so they already have

a study group. They don't have to worry about making friends or trying to find a

study group. You have one. It's about five to seven students on each team. I

just happen to have four because there aren't that many cadets.

Cook: So that would help with retention?

Harden: Yes, helps with retention, we go to dinner, we have time management

sessions. We have to sit down to a wig out session okay, tell me all your stress

from the week. We have fun!

Cook: Do you live on-campus?

Harden: This semester I live off-campus. For the last four years, I lived on campus.

Cook: Where did you live on campus?

Harden: My first year I was in A.J, East A.J. and the last three I was in

Brodie. Now I live in Cedarfield Apartments.

Cook: Do you like living off-campus?

Harden: I do! I like going 00:38:00into 'my room.' There's not a roommate there and

there's no one knocking on my door. It's MY ROOM! My kitchen, my refrigerator

and what I put in is there the next day! I don't have to worry about going to

the dining halls. It's mine.

Cook: Do you live by yourself?

Harden: No, I do have a roommate. She was my roommate my junior year and we are

used to living together. She is also graduating in December. We have very odd

schedules, so we actually don't see each other often in the apartment.

Cook: Are you on the track team at Tech?

Harden: I was. I stopped. The track team it demands a lot of you.

Cook: The traveling?

Harden: The traveling, exactly. That's what got me, the traveling. Trying to do

that and be an engineer. Something had to give so I left the team. I'd like to

go back but not until after I get my degree. It won't be until after I get my degree.

Cook: Did you run the four hundred?

Harden: 00:39:00Yes, the 2[00] and the 4[00].

Cook: How many years were you on the team?

Harden: Just one just because in engineering, they throw you in head first.

Cook: Do they not want you to go?

Harden: No they were just like, "Why are you going?" When I explained the reason

was in terms of academics, she could understand that. She was like we can get

tutors and computers and so forth. I was like; it's a time factor. When you

travel from Thursday to Sunday, you miss that class time and lab time, group

time. There's only so much of that you can make up with a tutor.

Cook: I bet that's a lot of stress too. Knowing you're at a meet and you have to

do all of that.

Harden: Exactly, where everyone is listening to Walkman's, I used to be in the

corner like this problem is and so forth trying to do my homework in between races.

Cook: Do you have a mentor in the Corps?

Harden: 00:40:00Not now. My mentor actually wasn't a Cadet when I came through. She was

an engineer and after that first year, I knew older people in the Corps who were

also engineers so I would go to them for help. But, my specific mentor was not

in the Corps.

Cook: Could you tell me about her?

Harden: Davida Mason. She was wonderful. She was wonderful from freshman year

on. We're still friends. She is getting her MBA at Pace University in New York.

I'm going to see her in a few weeks.

Cook: Is she African American?

Harden: Yes. She was wonderful in terms of like everything from where to wash my

clothes, what classes to take, just to have someone to talk to. She was great.

She would come and visit me and I would go and visit her. When my parents

weren't down on weekends and everyone else in the whole dorm had a family, she

would be 00:41:00my family and I would go stay with her. She was just great. Never

judgmental about anything; you know you make freshman mistakes, you make college

mistakes. Never judgmental, always supportive. Like well, you know you need to

and you don't need to and I trust you. You're going to be okay.

Cook: Like a big sister?

Harden: Exactly, like a big sister, she was really good to me.

Cook: Can you say her name again?

Harden: Davida Mason.

Cook: That's D-a-v-i-t?

Harden: No, it's David with an "a."

Cook: Do you feel any resistance in the Corps, from males, females, blacks, whites?

Harden: There is some but you have to know how to handle it. When I say there's

some, first of all being a female in a predominantly male atmosphere, you're

going to have to prove yourself. The guys are only going to look out for you to

a 00:42:00certain extent and then it becomes you have to survive on your own and you

have to show that I'm here for the long hall and I'm here to work just as hard

if not harder than you are. In terms of male. In terms of race, I think it's a

freshman atmosphere of I don't know. From the environment I come from I don't

know. I don't know how to interact with people not of my race. So there's a lot

of that struggle. Comments are made and certain situations occur that shouldn't

occur but it's in the way you handle it. You do have a commanding officer. You

can hold people accountable for their actions. Then it becomes a matter of also

educating people, like on a daily basis just walking around you might hear

someone use a phrase like I don't know--let me think--like imitating 00:43:00a comedian,

a black comedian. Something like that. And they would approach you and say don't

you know what this joke means, what this word means--

Cook: A white person?

Harden: A white person, exactly. It's like, no, do you just assume I know that

because a black person said it and I'm black too? It's that sort of thing.

Cook: Would you actually say that?

Harden: I would! Just because I want to know is that honestly what you think?

From that point it's no, not all of us think alike. So that might be what they

think and I don't agree with it. So, it becomes--you almost have to educate as

you're going through and let people know. Not everyone means it in an offensive

way, they just don't know. That is a line you have to walk. Who means it and who

just doesn't know and then you go from there. I think it takes time if its time

you want to invest.

Cook: But you've never come up against any overt racism?

Harden: There was one 00:44:00incident where my roommate and I were asleep and I'm a

light sleeper and three guys were standing outside our door. They were talking

and one made a comment, something like, well, niggers shouldn't be here anyway

because--it was something to the effect that they're too dumb to be here.

Something to that affect and I'm the only African American in the Company and

you're standing outside my door so you had to know Cook: Your roommate wasn't

African-American? Harden: No I was the only one. you had to know what you were

doing. I took it to my Commanding Officer. We have Company officers who are

advisors to the Company. It just so happened that our Company Commander was also

in the Air Force so they handled the situation. Unfortunately I couldn't tell

who it was.

Cook: Was it a male?

Harden: It was a male. I know it was a male. But I couldn't tell who it was. My

thing from that point became, I'm not going to sit here and guess who it was but

know that I won't stand for this. So I let my Commanding Officer know and I let

the Air Force know also. We had a Company meeting with everyone present. A

formal report was made up in terms of I heard and it was 00:45:00later found out who the

person was and they were dismissed. They banned from the building and eventually

left the Corps, left the university actually.

Cook: Did you want to open the door and just kill him?

Harden: I wanted to but it was one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning. So it

was late anyway, three males, me and my roommate, and I don't know if you are

drinking. So I didn't want to get into that sort of conversation. I looked out

at the people. I couldn't tell who it was. I still couldn't tell because where

they were sitting was lower than what I could 00:46:00 see.

Cook: So obviously, it's co-ed. I didn't know that

Harden: Oh, yeah! My room and the room next to me, we were the only females on

that floor. Everyone else was male. Oh yeah!

Cook: I guess I had that stereotype.

Harden: That adds another thing in terms of females sleeping with their doors

unlocked. People will wander in drunk and try to get in your bed.

Cook: Or walking to the bathroom at night.

Harden: Walking to the bathroom at night, oh yeah! various situations.

Cook: You're not allowed to lock your door?

Harden: No you're supposed to, but some females--I shouldn't say females, some

people wouldn't just because they feel like it's a cadet atmosphere. It's

supposed to be safe. Everyone's on the honor code and so forth. So I shouldn't

have to lock my door. But, then you run into people who are drunk. They may come

back to the dorm and try to get to their room they may mistake your room for

their room, so forth and so forth.

Cook: Here I have a stereotype of there would be no 00:47:00drinking and coming back in

the Corps.

Harden: You would think, you would hope but it happens.

Cook: It's college.

Harden: It's college, Exactly. A lot of people think you're a cadet. You're

supposed to be at a different standard, a different level but people are people.

[End of Tape 1, Side 1]

Harden: It's not a majority at all, at all. It's very few, very few people.

Cook: That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I think you already

answered this as well. Do you feel the Corps is a macho environment?

Harden: In many ways, yes.

Cook: Did you see Missy Cummings talk? She was a F18 fighter pilot?

Harden: No, I didn't hear her talk but I know her in terms of from the

department of engineering. But, no I missed her speech.

Cook: I went to that, She says that in the Navy --I guess she was 00:48:00referring to

all the armed forces was a "warrior culture." Do you feel that is true?

Harden: I could agree with that. It's definitely fighting, well not that

struggling, surviving. You have to do it. If that's what you want, you have to

survive. There are many different ways of surviving and you have to choose which

way you're going to go about it. Are you going to survive by letting people walk

all over you and hope that you get to your goal or are you going to survive by

making your choices and letting people know that you are a presence here.

Cook: Do you get a lot of your attributes through your parents?

Harden: Yes [laughter].

Cook: That's wonderful! What leadership opportunities does the Corps offer you?

Harden: Oh gosh! So many. Actually starting in your freshman year, you can be

what's called the new 00:49:00cadet in charge. Basically that means you're responsible

for your bud class in terms of knowing where everyone is, setting up schedules

for them and so forth. Actually it's called the "head new cadet." Sophomore year

you can be a team leader, scholastics officer--coming on up, a squad leader and

it's just a matter of how many cadets are underneath you. When I finished the

Corps, I was the regimental chaplain, so I oversaw a lot of the spiritual needs

of the Corps in terms of setting up faith studies, counseling sessions, in terms

of PR counseling, peer mediation. A lot of that stuff.

Cook: Did you enjoy that?

Harden: I did. Sometimes you have to learn how to detach yourself though.

Cook: I was just thinking that.

Harden: Exactly because it can become a lot for another student. A lot of

people--it use to be funny because they would come to me with their problems and

think like I must not have any because you're the Chaplain, you must not have

any, so it was hard. A lot of times I would call my parents and say, "Oh! This 00:50:00happened and I don't know what I'm doing. It's making me crazy!" I had to learn

how to emotionally separate myself. I can't get emotionally involved in every

single situation because I would never have anything left for myself. All you

can do is listen and provide options for people.

Cook: You can't solve everyone's problems.

Harden: Exactly.

Cook: It sounds like you have a nurturing side which is interesting. So, one of

the positive aspects of the Corps is to offer leadership opportunities?

Harden: Yes both in the Corps and outside of the Corps.

Cook: Do you feel that as a member of the Corps you are stereotyped by non-Corps students?

Harden: Yes, yes you are, especially being a female. Guys are afraid to ask you

out because they think you are going to beat them 00:51:00 up!

[Laughter]

Harden: I wish that wasn't, that I was exaggerating, but it's so true. I

remember this one guy I went out with. He thought it was the coolest thing in

the world but it annoyed me to death. He'd introduce me as, "This is Janelle.

She could kill you if she wanted to."

Cook: Oh my gosh!

Harden: You don't tell people that--I mean I can. But, you don't tell people

that I can kill them with my bare hands.

Cook: That a little intimidating. You can!

Harden: Yes.

Cook: How did you learn that?

Harden: It's part of our training. Like I said our basic training--we learn

survival skills when I went through basic and so a lot of that was survival.

When I say survival not only in the woods but also in terms of rape survival and

things that you can do to avoid situations. Basic things, if someone has you in

a choke hold, how to get out of it. This sounds so negative.

Cook: No, it doesn't because it's something that's useful for 00:52:00 women!

Harden: How to break people's legs, kicking, screaming, clawing and the proper

ways of doing it not just frantically hitting at air; how to do it, how to

strike, how close you should let the person get before you attack, how to run,

how to fall.

Cook: So, it gives you power as a woman especially? That's wonderful

Harden: From the female side of it - non-Cadet females - they see it, as you

guys are just a bunch of brutes.

Cook: It may be threatening to them.

Harden: Exactly.

Cook: That's annoying. Can you tell of any situations with a female?

Harden: Like seeing us in a dress they'd say, I didn't think you were allowed to

wear those. I am feminine. We can be feminine. You're not supposed to do that.

Why aren't you in uniform? Why are you dressed that way? That sort of thing. You

can let your hair down. 00:53:00I didn't think you could let your hair down. Yes, and I

can curl it too. It's those kinds of things, like you're not supposed to be

feminine. But, then from the male standpoint, its well, you're going to beat me

up if I ask you out. So I'm not going to ask you out. So, you hear it on both

sides for females.

Cook: Do you feel jealousy from females too?

Harden: A little bit, a little bit because some of them knock females when they

date the guys in the Corps. When they find out we live next door to each other,

they get a little bit upset. Oh, you live next to him and you can see him

anytime and you can see him in a towel and in a robe! It's like do you realize

I'm not even looking at them. They're not cute to me. I don't even see that at all.

Cook: So, they're looking to date them because they're in the Corps?

Harden: Oh, yes love a man in uniform, just not a woman in uniform.

[Laughter]

Cook: Oh right!

Harden: You get stuff like that, "Oh you know him? Where's he live? What's his

phone number? Does he have a girlfriend?" I don't talk 00:54:00to him. He lives two

doors down. I don't know what he does in his room. The girls are quite interesting!

Cook: Kind of a silly question but are your uniforms comfortable? I always

wondered that!

Harden: Well for me personally the white shirt uniform is and that's just the

everyday class uniform. I don't like the blue collar, what we call our Dress A

or Dress B uniform. That's the blue with the white pants just because the collar

annoys me.

Cook: Does it feel choking?

Harden: Yes. It's choking and it clasps there. Well, just for me it pushes my

neck in and I don't like it. I don't like the way it sits and I can never--like

the way the pants fit--they don't fit right to me. It's like they're on

backwards but they're actually on right. So, that uniform I don't like.

Cook: I've just always been curious about 00:55:00 that.

Harden: And then the cross belts when we wear dress A, the cross belts they suck

you in.

Cook: Are both uniforms pants and top or do you have a skirt and top?

Harden: We have a skirt, but that's only our mess dress uniform and we wear that

to formal occasions like our dining in and our military ball. That's a skirt and

a jacket.

Cook: Is that comfortable?

Harden: That's comfortable.

Cook: How about the shoes?

Harden: The shoes? Well, in that uniform we wear the heels and every day we wear

our low quarters and we have to polish those. They're pretty comfortable. You

can buy inserts and padding.

Cook: How 'bout hat?

Harden: That's not too bad. That's pretty comfortable.

Cook: Has anyone been important to you on campus? I guess you talked about the

one mentor.

Harden: My mentor is presently over in the business department, Dr. Smith. Of

course everyone in the engineering department especially mechanical engineering.

I know a lot of students who can't say that. Like everyone is 00:56:00important but

between the Office of Minority Engineering Programs and my M.E. faculty and

staff, they are wonderful. They are fully supportive. My mentor that I have at

the University, like Sunday as a matter of fact, we spent the day together, went

to church and spent the afternoon together. We just talk and I call her momma

Smith. We just talk about everything. She gives me money when I'm broke. I have

a key to her house if ever I don't want to stay at home. I can come stay at

their house, clothes, gosh anything.

Cook: And she goes to the AME church as well? She's a professor in business?

Harden: She is.

Cook: Do you know Barbara Pendergrass?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: You already told me you plan to stay in the military at least for four

more years. When do you have to decide that?

Harden: To stay for four more years?

Cook: Right, do you definitely sign 00:57:00up? Have you done that yet?

Harden: I have. When I accepted my scholarship for the three years, that's when

I incurred a four-year commitment to the military.

Cook: That's four more after you graduate?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: But that will be in Virginia while you get your degree?

Harden: Actually, I'll be in Ohio.

Cook: Oh!

Harden: And wherever I travel from in Ohio. The military can move you anywhere.

Cook: Then how will you get your degree?

Harden: Correspondence. That's what I'm working with now to make sure I can do

correspondence so if I need to wait a certain amount of time--also once I get to

Ohio, find out how long I'll be in Ohio because say if I'm going to be in Ohio

for a year I can start classes there at a neighboring college to the base. I can

start classes. I might not be able to finish the lab work or my thesis, but you

can always mail that.

Cook: But, your actual degree will be from Tech though?

Harden: 00:58:00That's what I'm hoping. That's what I'm working on, getting the

correspondence between Universities. Like I said, I have to figure out how long

I'll be in Ohio and will they work together, will the two schools two

departments work together.

Cook: What is the base in Ohio?

Harden: Wright-Patterson.

Cook: Where is that?

Harden: Dayton.

Cook: Here's some generic questions. Do you think women should be drafted?

Harden: Oh wow! I never thought about that one actually.

Cook: Thought it was a good one!

Harden: It's a good question. Actually, I think people should have the option to

be drafted, both men and women. So, yes but people should have the option. I

don't think it should just be 00:59:00automatic that males are drafted, I think you

should have the option. Kind of the way it is right now by the age of eighteen

you have to make a choice, yes or no. Granted from the government's side of it,

then it would become we don't have enough people so that would have to be worked

out. Or maybe it should be random social security numbers. I don't know.

Cook: But in your opinion, if males are, then females should be?

Harden: Right!

Cook: Do you think women should be in combat?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Do you want to make any more comments about that?

Harden: I think they should just because--mostly it goes back to proving

yourself. If you're a woman and you feel like you can handle it and ALL -

EVERYTHING that happens in combat then go for it if that's truly what you want

to do. I know there are a lot of stereotypes in terms of well if she has cramps

she might shoot the wrong person. That sort of thing. All these stereotypes. But

if that's what a woman 01:00:00wants to do then by all means go for it. Do what you want

to do. Do what you're set on!

Cook: How about all women combat units?

Harden: I think there has to be some type of mix, some kind of diversity because

you need to feed off of each other male and female. As in any situation if you

have a group of women or men you start to get into this mindset and sometimes

you need new ideas to bounce off of each other. Some are going to be stronger

than others are-- different attributes so I think you need have to have a mixed

environment, both men and women. In terms of training style, I think once again

you feed off of one another in terms of training style. So, in that case I think

you should be able to train 01:01:00together, maybe not live together but train together.

Cook: Would you be willing to go into combat?

Harden: I would. I wouldn't like it too much but I'd be willing to go.

Cook: When you are going to be in the Air Force for four more years, do you have

any idea of your duties yet?

Harden: What I was told was Aerospace Systems Engineering.

Cook: Can't get away from that!

Harden: No, can't get away from it! Specifically I don't know if that's fighters

or maintenance but that's what I was told or the whole new development of a

system on an airplane. But, I know that is what I'll be in, Aerospace Systems.

Cook: So obviously, you like airplanes?

Harden: I do.

Cook: You don't get motion sickness or anything?

Harden: No. I use to fly out of the Tech airport here and I have some logged

hours there. It's fun to me. I wouldn't want to do it in terms of being a pilot

but it's fun.

Cook: Have you flown in helicopters?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: You don't get sick in them? You're lucky

Harden: No. They're 01:02:00fun, I like the way they dip.

Cook: You like roller coasters?

Harden: Yes!

Cook: I don't. I forgot to ask you what company are you in?

Harden: I started in Bravo and then I went to Delta. Then I was on the

Regimental Special Staff so I wasn't in a company.

Cook: Okay. I read about the Gold Cord, that a Competition?

Harden: Right, it's a competition. Bravo Company had won in the previous two

years before my class came through. We didn't win. Then Delta Company, I think

they won it one year. I want to say last year if not the year before but I'm not

positive. I wasn't in the company at that time. Then I have a Regimental Special

Staff Cord.

Cook: What would you 01:03:00consider the major events in your student life at Virginia Tech?

Harden: Being on the track team, joining my sorority, Zeta Phi Beta Sorority,

Inc. and the starting of CAASI, which is the Committee for African American

Student Issues.

Cook: Can you talk a little about your sorority and then CAASI?

Harden: My sorority is a service organization founded by five women on the

campus of Howard University in 1920, specifically January 16th, 1920. We are the

sisters to Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. and as a service organization we do

parties for disadvantaged children at both Christmas and Easter. We work with

Head Start, we do tutoring in the high schools, we help the high school students

in terms of the Black Awareness Club, we'll help them with programs, we travel

to 01:04:00Roanoke, to Richmond, where have you to help out, diabetes walk, AIDS walk,

sexual awareness. We work with Women's Space. As a matter of fact, we're in the

process now of doing a baby shower. Basically we're going to collect a whole

bunch of items, baby items from various people and organizations and have a baby

shower for moms who can't necessarily afford it. Like bottles and diapers and so

forth and give them gifts.

Cook: I wish I knew that! I just gave so much stuff to the Humane Society

[Thrift Shop].

Harden: Okay. We're working with the Women's Center on that one. Gosh, well last

year we had the highest QCA of all sororities!

Cook: Excellent!

Harden: We work very hard. We work hard in the community and hard at our academics.

Cook: Of all the sororities?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: I saw that you were on the list of the Corps for high GPA's.

Harden: 01:05:00Right. We participate and work wherever we can. We're all about helping

community and community development. As a matter of fact, as we're speaking now,

the rest of my organization is doing a candy sale to help raise money for a ball

we're having on November 11th and the proceeds from the ball will go towards the

baby shower, AIDS Walk, the Diabetes Walk, so on and so forth. Anything we can

help with.

Cook: That's wonderful!

Harden: Then CAASI was started by Zeta Phi Beta and the NAACP and I'm co-founder

of that. It's the committee for African American student issues. We meet with

President Steger and other organizations on campus just to find out what as

African American students can we do to better our campus. What can we do to show

we are involved in our campus in terms of getting more students here? In terms

of getting people to 01:06:00diversify the campus and come to the campus, come to our

programs that were having. Not think it's only as a "Black thing" but also as a

campus wide program or what have you. To what can we do? We work with

Admissions. We work with President Steger's office. We're working with the

Calendar Committee that makes up the calendar for Virginia Tech to reflect some

cultural events for the school. Gosh! What else do we do? We work with the

Blacksburg police in terms of cutting down on student harassment. We work with

the Dean of students, graduate students, anybody can help, anybody who wants to

better their campus. I know we're working with Ben Dixon. I'm talking about Dr.

Dixon, Vice President for Multicultural Affairs. We're working with his office

now because a lot of people don't notice this but that wall, the timeline wall

in Burruss Hall near Financial Aid on the second floor - it doesn't reflect when

African Americans entered the University, nor does it reflect when minorities 01:07:00entered the University. It talks about women, but that's it. So we're working on

either getting a new wall that reflects minorities and African Americans and so

forth or just having a multicultural wall of its own that reflects the first

African American, the first Asian American, the first Native American and so

forth at the University.

Cook: Let me know if you have any luck finding the first Native American because

I'm trying to find them and I can't.

Harden: Have you checked the MCC Multicultural Center?

Cook: Yes, I believe I've checked them. Actually one office does have statistics

but it would take them so long and they're not allowed to give me a name?

Harden: Oh, really! The Alumni Association can't do anything?

Cook: It's hard with American Indians at a certain time in history in Virginia

they either went on their birth certificates by 01:08:00"Negro" or "White." So it's

hard. In Virginia for quite a long time, Walter Plecker who was in charge of the

Bureau of Vital Statistics wouldn't let any Indians put American Indian on their

birth certificates. So if you hit on anything, let me know. So, I guess I'm

proud to say our Black Timeline at least we're doing that on the web. I wonder

why--that's very strange, in Burruss of all places, they have that.

Harden: There is a picture of Nikki Giovanni as a Notable Professor and that's it!

Cook: We can go back to is it, Peddrew as the first black man.

Harden: And then Dr. Yates was the first one to graduate.

Cook: Okay. There's a lot of 01:09:00talk about Affirmative Action policies. Do you have

any comment on that?

Harden: Affirmative Action comes from presenting an opportunity. It's up to you

to take that opportunity and run with it. I know a lot of people feel it can be

a crutch to fill a quota and so forth. I feel it's an opportunity. It would

totally undermine everything that I believe in to think that I got into Virginia

Tech because they needed another African American body. I choose to feel it's

because I have a great academic record and I am an asset to this University.

Cook: Im sure it is!

Harden: So I think that's where some people get confused is that one, if you

don't have pride in yourself and your accomplishments, in the quality of person

that you are then you will fall victim to the stereotypes that affirmative

action is just to get more numbers and I'm here because I'm a 01:10:00quota or

statistics or what have you. If you believe that you are, then you are. I choose

not to think that.

Cook: How do you view diversity on campus here in Southwest Virginia?

Harden: I view it oddly actually. I think there is integration. I don't think

there is diversity. The reason why I make that distinction is because a lot of

people think diversity is strictly numbers. As long as we have more then the

campus is diverse, but that's not what it means. Diversity is the accepting of

another culture. It is the accepting of another lifestyle. I might not be gay or

lesbian but I recognize that you all have a gay and lesbian month, that you all

have activities. The University should recognize that. Black History--just

because you aren't black does not mean you can't participate in activities and

the University can't recognize that--Asian 01:11:00Americans and so forth--all these

groups. So when that starts happening, then we have diversity! When people don't

see "women's space" and feel like you have to be a woman to come to the program.

When we can get past that, then we have diversity on campus. Otherwise, we're

dealing with a state of integration.

Cook: Janelle that's such a good answer! How do you like Blacksburg and in

particular Southwest Virginia?

Harden: It's nice. I like it because it's slow. It reminds me of San Antonio

which is good because it's slow. Being in northern Virginia around the D.C.

area, people drive so fast and I'm not saying that I'm a slow driver or anything

like that but--

Cook: They're aggressive.

Harden: They're aggressive and I don't like getting flicked off every day. So

it's good to be down here. I like horses and wildlife and cows 01:12:00and stuff. It

doesn't bother me to be down here. It's not foreign to me to be around them. I

like it. It's slow. I like the country and being able to drive out to West

Virginia and look at the mountains and just like run around in the fields.

Cook: Would you like to settle someday in the country?

Harden: I would, I would.

Cook: Have you ever had any negative racial experiences in Christiansburg or the environs?

Harden: I can remember driving and someone passing me and yelling "Nigger" out

the car.

Cook: This was in Montgomery County?

Harden: This was on campus!

Cook: Okay. Could you tell who it was?

Harden: I don't know. I couldn't tell who the person was. I was going about my

merry way and they came around and yelled "Nigger!" Well, okay! I chucked it up

to their own ignorance.

Cook: That's the only thing?

Harden: That's been the only big thing. Other things have been subtle. You could

either take it as that's just the 01:13:00person or it could have been a racial

comments, under the breath comment, so on and so forth, but I don't let it faze

me too much.

Cook: Do you think that would be more of a problem in San Antonio?

Harden: Yes, definitely!

Cook: Are there any other things you'd like to bring up that we haven't talked about?

Harden: I can't think of anything!

Cook: Okay, we'll just stop then!

[End of Tape 2, Side 2]