Oral History with Ebony Wilson, February 12, 2001 (Ms2002-001)

[Tape 1, Side 1] Cook: Today is February 12th and My name is Susan Cook I'm

interviewing Ebony Wilson. Ebony, can you state your whole name and when you

were born?

Wilson: Ebony Ginell Wilson. I was born July 4, 1979.

Cook: July 4th? Where were you born?

Wilson: In Norfolk, Virginia.

Cook: Did you grow up in Norfolk?

Wilson: Yes.

Cook: Tell me about your parents, like your mother's work or father's work.

Wilson: Well my mom is Patricia Wilson and they're divorced. She works at

McDonalds and my father works in Norfolk General Hospital.

Cook: What does he do there?

Wilson: He lays down the carpet. He is a floor specialist - puts tiles on the

floors, stuff like that.

Cook: So did your mom work when you were growing up?

Wilson: 00:01:00No, off and on but mostly she didn't work.

Cook: Can you tell me about their education?

Wilson: They both completed high school, um that's all.

Cook: Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Wilson: I have five brothers.

Cook: Oh my gosh! You are the only girl?

Wilson: Yes!

Cook: All right what's is your age order?

Wilson: 23, I'm 21, 18, 16, 15 and 4.

Cook: Aah! So you are the oldest of all those?

Wilson: I'm the second oldest. I have one older.

Cook: You have one older brother. Can you say their names?

Wilson: Anthony, Keith, Keshawn, Derek, and Antonio.

Cook: Are you close to your little four-year-old brother?

Wilson: Yes, I was with him since he's been born.

Cook: Did you watch your mother have him?

Wilson: No, it's actually my stepmother who 00:02:00had him so he lives with my father,

and I live with my father too.

Cook: What is your older brother doing?

Wilson: He's married and he works at Smithfield, the ham people, he works in a

factory doing that. He's married so he lives with his wife in Portsmouth.

Cook: Ok, so ya'll stayed around each other. Can you describe your neighborhood

that you grew up in?

Wilson: I actually moved around a lot but in general my neighborhood is an all

black neighborhood. I lived in a lot of old neighborhoods with older houses 00:03:00 and

school was always close by. I always walked to school, especially elementary school.

Cook: Was your school an all black school too?

Wilson: Uh-huh, up to elementary school and then I got into middle school and it

was more mixed.

Cook: Um what mixed with what? White or Hispanic?

Wilson: White and one high school I went to was mixed with Filipino and Hispanic

because of the Navy community. It was mostly just mixed with black and white. I

went to fifteen different schools so--

[Laughter]

Wilson: I think it's 15 or something like that!

Cook: Well that helps you with being in the military, right? [Laughter] What is

the name of the high school you graduated from?

Wilson: Western Branch.

Cook: Western Branch High School-- okay. Did you like it there?

Wilson: No, not really-not really, just 'cause I was the new kid until I

graduated and I'm kind of a loner so I didn't really like it. I didn't like high

school at all, so I was just 00:04:00ready to go to college, I think.

Cook: Were you active in anything in high school?

Wilson: In ROTC.

Cook: Oh, okay. when I was a senior in high school my parents moved in October

and that was so hard. I ended up graduating in January and my dad wanted me to

go to graduation and I said I don't know any of these people I don't care about

them. I can definitely relate Did you work while you were in high school?

Wilson: Yes, I did.

Cook: Can you tell me about that?

Wilson: I worked at Taco Bell. At first I started working part time and like

almost everyday after school and then I kind of slacked off cause I had to

baby-sit my little brother when he was born. Then I started working the summers.

Cook: At Taco Bell?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: Are you and your family members politically active?

Wilson: No.

Cook: Did you belong to a church community?

Wilson: No, not really. I went to church. Like right now 00:05:00I just go to church but

I don't really belong to a community except my step-mom's church. I go when I'm

back home.

Cook: But you don't belong to one here. Okay, well we can move on then from high

school. How did you decide to come to Virginia Tech?

Wilson: It's actually pretty funny. In high school we had to do a project. We

had to pick a career and we had to pick what school we graduated from, like what

college we graduated from. We had to interview a person in that community. Well,

I decided that I wanted to be a vet and the only school around here that had a

veterinarian school was Virginia Tech. So I just became interested in Virginia

Tech that way. I did more research on it and they kept sending me a lot of

stuff. So it was between UVA and 00:06:00Virginia Tech. I picked Virginia Tech.

Cook: Thank you!

[Laughter]

Wilson: I always wanted to go to a real big school, the bigger the better for

me. UVA was smaller so I decided to go to Tech.

Cook: Me too, 'cause I feel like you can disappear more in a big school than in

a small school. Do you feel that way?

Wilson: Yeah and I think small schools feel more like high school.

Cook: I felt the same way.

Wilson: I wanted the bigger school the better! The more people that went there

the better!

Cook: Me too! When I got out of high school I went to University of Maryland,

College Park. Everybody else was going to these small schools and I said 'no'

'cause I'm thinking 45,000 people and I--

Wilson: In Maryland?

Cook: Yeah! 'Cause you can get your own group of friends but you can also

disappear if you want to. So you were in ROTC in high school. How did you get

into ROTC here?

Wilson: That was the only way I could pay for school.

Cook: Okay!

Wilson: I couldn't afford school at all! If it wasn't for ROTC scholarships, so

I 00:07:00decided, at the time, it seemed like my only option because I didn't know-- I

was the first one to go to college so I didn't know about financial aid or

anything like that. I got the ROTC scholarship, and they tell you to choose the

school you want your scholarship to go to.

Cook: Oh so you applied directly for an ROTC scholarship but not at a particular

school but you list schools.

Wilson: Yeah, you don't apply for it.

Cook: At Virginia Tech?

Wilson: No, you just list. They will tell you the schools that have the ROTC and

you just pick whatever schools have the ROTC. More than likely you get your

first choice school.

Cook: So you came in as a freshman ROTC?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: How scary! [Laughter] You're very brave. What was it like when you first

came here?

Wilson: It was different because of the whole 'Corps' thing. I felt like I

didn't do anything my freshman year. I still don't know what I did my freshman

year. It just kind of went by I guess-- sort of was average on 00:08:00grades. It was

harder than I thought it was going to be 'cause of my major and stuff.

Cook: What is your major?

Wilson: Well my major was math. I just changed it this year to IDST. It didn't

set me back that much but--

Cook: That's my major too, IDST. Do you know Michael Herndon?

Wilson: Uh-huh. Yeah he advises me with a lot of stuff.

Cook: I really like him. His daughter was real sick last week, Shakira. She got

the flu and she was really sick. So I guess just talk about your first or just

some of your memories since you're a senior. For instance, I guess the Corps.

What was that like? Were people friendly?

Wilson: 00:09:00 No.

Cook: Do people yell?

Wilson: They yell. It's been a lot different than it is now but there's not as

much yelling. I think the class when we came in the classes above us, for some

reason they were a lot meaner.

Cook: Do you get to yell now though?

Wilson: I do get to yell but I feel like I don't like yelling at people. I just

feel like if somebody's gonna do it, I couldn't do it, you know yell at them.

Um, I don't know, I just remember not being able to go out doing some of the

things I wanted to do especially as a freshman. It's kind of I think it's

important as a freshman to go out because that way you are gonna know what

college is about not just staying in a room.

Cook: Yeah because that's part of your education being free for the first time.

Wilson: I couldn't do it all my freshman year, my whole freshman year. We they

set times for us that we could go out, like ten to twelve on a Friday night or something.

Cook: That's it?

Wilson: Yeah and I was kind of upset about that 'cause there were some things I

wanted to do at 00:10:00like eight o'clock. Say for instance it was black history month

program or something. I'm pretty sure they would have let us go to that but

stuff on a weekend that started at eight I probably wouldn't been able to go to.

Cook: On Saturday?

Wilson: On Saturday because you had to stay a certain there is a certain time

frame in the evening when we had to stay in and clean the hallways. They don't

do that anymore. We had to clean the hallways when we were freshman.

Cook: Not fair. Were you resentful at all?

Wilson: Yeah, I was resentful!

Cook: Did you um, get along with your roommate?

Wilson: Uh-huh. I had two roommates. One roommate got out of the Corps. She

didn't like it at all.

Cook: Was she white or black?

Wilson: She was white and my second roommate was Filipino. She's not 00:11:00 here

anymore either. She left because of different reasons, she's not in the

university, but we got along. I get along with pretty much all of my roommates.

Cook: Did you have um-- sometimes it's hard to ask all these questions. Did you

have any problems have you had any problems in the Corps as far as being a female?

Wilson: Um, personally, no. I've heard of stories well actually there was one

time when someone climbed into my bed in the middle of the night.

Cook: What!

Wilson: That was kind of scary. I don't think if I was a male it would have

happened. It happened because the guy was like sleepwalking or something and he

went to the male's bathroom that is right across the hallway from our room,

freshman year. This was the first week of school so I was terrified when he did

it. But I found out he didn't even remember, so, it was scary

Cook: Wow! Did you wake up screaming?

Wilson: I just felt somebody pulling my covers back. My roommate said she saw

him come in our room. He came in our room and started opening our dresser

drawers and our dresser drawers are in the 00:12:00closet. So he had to open the closet,

open the drawers and mess around in them. She said she thought it was me. She

kept calling my name and she said I didn't respond, and I was like "cause I was

asleep" and that was it. But yeah we just, we just got up and told our next-door

neighbor; a sophomore and he got him. He woke him up 'cause I didn't know what

was happening. That was the first week of school.

Cook: Yeah, he probably was so embarrassed though!

Wilson: Yeah, he didn't even remember.

Cook: Well so you don't have to-- you can't keep the rooms locked?

Wilson: After that we locked the room. Normally even now my room isn't locked. I

don't lock my room. That is the only-- that is the main thing I like about the

Corps is that I'm pretty sure there are some people who got stuff stolen from

them but I never locked. In three and a half years, I've never really locked my room.

Cook: You feel safe?

Wilson: Uh-huh. For some reason I don't know. Now they try to tell you "lock

your doors."

Cook: So your hall is very co-ed then?

Wilson: Uh-huh. I live beside-- both my neighbors are guys.

Cook: And you get along with them fine?

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: They treat you with respect and all?

Wilson: I mean you hear the 00:13:00dirty jokes, especially as a freshman. I heard the

dirty jokes from my buds like the rest of the freshman class, but some people

don't like it. I guess it depends on the person because I don't. I guess they

know, I don't want to say they know better. But I don't want to hear that and

then they stop. It depends on the person.

Cook: You can kind of set the limits and all? They know they can't pick on you?

Wilson: Yeah, 'cause even if you do you might hear a dirty joke and you're like

"I don't want to hear that" and you got to tell them and there is some, I know,

there is some girls who the guys won't listen to at all so I don't know. And

then the setting the tone and it goes all the way back to your freshman year.

You make your impression your freshman year.

Cook: Do you feel you've been treated well by I guess, I don't know what you

call them, the uppers, 00:14:00the people who aren't students, the faculty?

Wilson: People who run it?

Cook: Yes!

Wilson: I guess, I don't really talk to them all that much, I don't know.

Cook: For instance is there someone you have to report to, that's higher than you?

Wilson: My company commander.

Cook: Yeah!

Wilson: He's a senior so he's like in the same level. So it's not like, he's not

going to, I don't know, he treats me with respect. But most of the seniors and

there are people you don't like but there's people everybody don't like.

Cook: Do you feel you are treated well as a black- do you like to be called

black or African American?

Wilson: It doesn't matter.

Cook: Ok, do you feel you are treated well there? Have you had any incidents?

Wilson: I haven't had any incidents. I just don't- I just never felt comfortable

because there are never-- like when I first got there it was a shock because I

never lived close to any white people before and then I'm sure they never lived

close to any 00:15:00black people but it was only two of us out of thirty for my company

as a freshman. So it's not like they had to adjust. It's sort of like I had to

adjust. The whole listening to music, the people upper made us listen to music

and it's not the type of music that I like. Little things like that made me mad.

Cook: They don't help you to be comfortable.

Wilson: And we all had to, as a freshmen, we were made to go out together like

Friday and Saturday night and everybody of course would want to go to a party

that I didn't want to go to, that I wouldn't feel comfortable around so I never went.

Cook: So you couldn't socialize with other people you met in classes or other

African American? That would be hard.

Wilson: It was hard because one I was in the Corps so 00:16:00it was very hard and I'm

extremely shy so that's working - the Corps was working against me. And I know a

freshman, when she was a freshman, she's a senior now that had to go out. When

she was allowed to go out, she kind of like snuck away from her buds and went to

other parties. But I couldn't do that 'cause I was kind of shy. So I didn't do

anything until sophomore year when I wasn't regulated as much.

Cook: Well the other person in your, what do you call it, in your area? You said

when you were a freshman there were only two blacks-- Company, what Company

were-- ?

Wilson: I was in Echo.

Cook: Echo-- and was that a male or female student?

Wilson: It was a male.

Cook: Oh, so 00:17:00you really were alone.

Wilson: And the other, only other black female, trying to think, the only other

black female was a freshman in Foxtrot. We kind of knew each other from the

black student preview. The year before we met each other there. For some reason

we both ended up in the Corps but she's still here. But other than that there

are no other black females. The rest of the black females were upperclassmen

that you couldn't talk to. I didn't talk to them until my sophomore year.

Cook: So Janelle really was a year ahead of you then?

Wilson: She was a year ahead of me but um, the main thing with Janelle, I get on

her about this all the time, um she lived in Brodie and I lived in Rasche. And

the whole fact that you got to sound off at people, walk on the right side of

the hallway and do all this stuff. I never went over to Brodie. I didn't know

anybody in Brodie. So she stayed in a totally different company. I didn't even

know Janelle until we both got in a sorority together and that was my sophomore

year. So it was like "Yeah I know you're in the Corps!" but I didn't know her

name or 00:18:00 anything.

Cook: What do you think-- you probably don't know the percentages, as far as

white to minorities in the Corps? Pretty small?

Wilson: It is pretty small. Like Asians-- I think there are more Asians.

Cook: Than blacks?

Wilson: Than blacks. I'm pretty sure there are more Asians than blacks actually

they did a Corps survey and they had the results. There were more Asians than

blacks. Black people-- I think there's about twenty of us, and that's stretching it.

Cook: I had no idea!

Wilson: That's really stretching it. In our company there are three out of

forty-nine and that's about typical of every company so I say there's about twenty.

Cook: That's small. Do you ever 00:19:00get any negative feelings from other African

American students on-campus that aren't in the Corps?

Wilson: No, none of them really know I'm in the Corps until they see me during

the day because most people don't see me during the day 'cause I go to class

then go back to my room and at night, like after 5 you can wear regular clothes.

So people see me and are like "You in the Corps?" [Laughter] They are like, most

black people they don't even like realize!

Cook: Oh okay, all right. They don't say, "What are you doing in the Corps?"

Wilson: No they don't. They just say, "I couldn't do that" or something like that.

Cook: I think you must be strong just to be in the Corps and then to be a

minority in the Corps. Are your parents proud of you?

Wilson: Yeah, I guess. It was sort of-- I guess I'd say it was expected of me. I

don't know why. The whole path that I took was kind 00:20:00of-- it was sort of already

there. Like I knew I was going to go to college. How I was going to go to

college, I had no idea and I knew it was going to be paid for. I didn't know

how. Ever since I was in elementary school it was sort of like instilled in me

and not-- I don't know why it wasn't in my cousins or my brothers but it was

instilled in me that I was going to go to college.

Cook: Do you think that you will influence and encourage your younger brothers?

Wilson: Uh-huh. They are a little bit harder to encourage but yeah I am trying

to. Well you know my four year-old brother, he just started school, I encourage

him and my other-- one of my brother's wants to play basketball and go to

college and stuff so I hope he does that.

Cook: Yeah 'cause you are a role model for them. I mean college is not for

everybody. I have brothers and sisters that didn't go to college. It's not- but

the fact that you did it will make it more accessible and they could find out

how to afford through you. I can't believe 00:21:00that, how many brothers, five?

Wilson: Uh-huh!

Cook: Do you have both black and white friends at Virginia Tech?

Wilson: Um, yeah I guess you can call them friends in the Corps, the people I

hang out with in the Corps. And then I have whole separate friends that are

sorority, the people I meet as far as my sorority.

Cook: Do you find you have more male or female friends in the Corps?

Wilson: I have more female friends. Well I mean most females in the Corps, we

tend to hang out together, not always cause you can't hang around with males,

they call them male buds the people who are freshman in your company.

Cook: You can't? You're not supposed to?

Wilson: Well you can. Like the people who you are with, like the same company

they call them buds. A lot of people hang out with them--

Cook: Buds? B-U-D-S?

Wilson: Yeah

Cook: Oh (laughter) slang, so has anything negative racially happened to you?

Any comments while you've been in the 00:22:00Corps or on campus either?

Wilson: Not on campus. In the Corps it's more, I don't know. People say, people

say stupid, like just general comments about. I know one time somebody made a

reference to Martin Luther King holiday when I was a freshman; it's just like

just small comments like that. Especially around me I haven't really heard any,

any negative comments.

Cook: You need to check out that website, because that talks about the first

black women students at Virginia Tech and what they had to go through. It's

really interesting. How about in the community? Cause this community per say is

pretty white, do you, have you ever had any problems?

Wilson: No, none. 00:23:00No, I don't, cause I don't really get out that much (laughter)

so I haven't had any problems. I'm really sure they are there. I can like

prejudge a lot of people, how they act but I haven't seen any, I haven't

experienced any. I've experienced more back home than I have here actually.

Cook: Oh really, do you get to go home that much?

Wilson: On the breaks mostly because of the whole money situation, find way to

get back home.

Cook: So you don't have a car on campus? It's a good thing. Cars are a pain. I

have a son who goes to GMU - had to get that car, had to get it. I wouldn't let

him get it and then finally he got it in 00:24:00August and he'll be a senior next year.

So guess what- it broke down and he can't afford to fix it. It costs, the

minimum $1400 dollars so I told him that's so many problems.

Wilson: I'm at that point that I have to have car too, that's because I'm about

to graduate.

Cook: Yeah, are you going to be able to graduate in May?

Wilson: I'm graduating in August, but I am going to walk in May and do the

ceremony cause my parents "we want to see you graduate", ok.

Cook: I did the same thing. I just graduated from undergraduate. It took me a

long time. Um you know what I don't like though, they are not going to use the

stadium now, they're gonna do it on the drill field with chairs set up.

Wilson: I thought they start, they was going to start in 2002.

Cook: Oh, ok I bet you are right then.

Wilson: I read in the paper 00:25:00about something like that. That they were going to

start in 2002.

Cook: Because it's a good feeling in the stadium.

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: Do you go to sports events-- well you have to go to, don't you?

Wilson: I had to go to the football games and we had to go to the women's

basketball game this past Wednesday.

Cook: Yeah?

Wilson: I like it, I like football actually; I'm a big sports fan so I don't

mind. I know there's a lot of - for some reason most of the black people don't

like going to the football games. But I don't mind cause I like football.

Cook: Yeah, I haven't been to any. I need to go and I want to go. I just can't

afford it.

Wilson: Yeah they're fun, since they're free also like it helps that we don't

have to get tickets.

Cook: Exactly, do you yell and all?

Wilson: No, I just kind of watch

Cook: Gosh, all right um back to the racial things. What do you feel is the

racial climate at Virginia Tech. For instance do you feel it's diverse here?

Wilson: No. [laughter]

Cook: Why?

Wilson: 'Cause I have a computer science class and 00:26:00there's-- five black people

in that class in Norris 136 and that's kind of a big classroom. It's not the

biggest classroom but it's a big classroom. And I counted, cause I do that on

the first day of classes. There was like five of us in there and Norris 136 was

full there's about 300 students in that class so it's pretty-- it's not diverse

at all.

Cook: When you're in a class you very much feel like "I'm black" and there's not

that many students here that are black.

Wilson: I feel that mostly when I'm in the Corps because it's just, I'm just not

used, I'm still not used to living around, I guess white people. I don't know I

just feel like that all the time especially when I'm in uniform.

Cook: Because you've grown up in mostly black neighborhoods and schools? So do 00:27:00you think that's a good thing to help you live with Filipinos and Asians and

white people, do you think that will be good for your future?

Wilson: Yeah, but I think it needs to be the other way around instead of,

because I don't really think I'd have a problem living around white people but I

think it's the other way around, when the white person lives around all black

people. I think that's what is, that really should be it because they don't know

a lot about us and we know a lot about them.

Cook: Oh okay, I understand. I forgot to ask you, this is going back to the

beginning, I'm always interested in knowing about your background. Like is your

family, as far back as you can remember, from Norfolk? Did you grandparents come

from somewhere else?

Wilson: My great grandparents they lived in Chesapeake, but it's still 00:28:00in the

Norfolk area, as far as I remember. My dad's side of the family, they're from

Norfolk back as far as I remember 'cause I asked my great grandmother because my

mom is very light and my great grandma is really, really light like, "how'd you

get so light?" And she told me that her dad is half white/half black 'cause her

grandmother was raped. Her grandmother was a slave and she was raped by an owner.

Cook: So this is your grandmother's--?

Wilson: My great grandmother's, grandmother.

Cook: Your great grandmother's-- so what was her, your great grandmother's name?

Wilson: Bessie Jenkins.

Cook: Bessie Jenkins!

Wilson: She's still alive.

Cook: She is? Wow!!

Wilson: She's eighty-something!

Cook: Oh my gosh!

Wilson: She's a great-great grandmother 00:29:00 actually.

Cook: And that's your mother's mother?

Wilson: My mother's grandmother.

Cook: Your mother's grandmother.

Wilson: Uh-huh

Cook: And then her, let me get this straight, your great grandmother's mother was--

Wilson: Grandmother.

Cook: Grandmother-- was a slave and raped by a white man. So that was probably

in the Chesapeake area too?

Wilson: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the Chesapeake area because they're the type

of people that, as far as I know, they haven't moved. My mom-- the house they

lived, my great grandma live in now. She raised my mom because my grandmother

died when they were young.

Cook: Oh, what did she die of? Do you know?

Wilson: She died of asthma. She had an asthma attack. It runs in the family.

Cook: Do you have it?

Wilson: No!

Cook: Thank God!

Wilson: None of my brothers have it. None of us have it. But she died, so as far

as I know, they lived in the same house and there was no electricity, they had

no bathroom, they had no outhouse. That's what my mom remembers.

Cook: I'm going to send you a name of this book. I can't remember it right now.

Do you know Dr. Beverly Bunch-Lyons?

Wilson: Uh-huh, I've heard of her.

Cook: She's one of the 00:30:00best professors. She's just so wonderful. I couldn't take

her graduate course this semester because I already fulfilled that requirement

but she's teaching African American women's history and one of the books-- it's

got a weird name, it's called Corrigidora or something like that and it's about

African American women. I don't know if they go from slavery, when women were

enslaved and after. I'm not sure. I'm going to read it though. It talks about

that sexual aspect of it, how black women have always been preyed on by white

men. So would you be interested in just knowing about that?

Wilson: Yes.

Cook: It's a thin book. I saw it at the bookstore but I thought you know we need

to know this. I am 00:31:00reading a book called Many Thousands Gone for one of my

classes. It's very interesting. It's about slavery in the 17th and 18th century

and how African Americans managed to have power even though they were

suppressed. So it's really, really interesting. We are studying about the

Chesapeake too. So you can probably trace your ancestors back to all that area.

What's your mom's maiden name?

Wilson: Creekmur.

Cook: Can you spell it?

Wilson: C R E E K M U R

Cook: That's pretty. That sounds Indian, American Indian.

Wilson: I think it might be from that area because I see it. I know a name of a

store was Creekmur too, so I think in that area somewhere around there that name

just came up, popped up.

Cook: Does Creek, well creek of course is the water, but Creek is also American

Indian. Do you know if you have any American Indian in your background?

Wilson: I'm not 00:32:00 sure.

Cook: Here's a silly question but when you were growing up did you have any

childhood heroes?

Wilson: Yeah, I've got a silly answer.

[Laughter]

Wilson: I think Wonder Woman. I think that was my thing because I watched a lot

of TV when I could and everybody tells me-- I don't even remember but when I was

like three and four Wonder Woman was my favorite. I was all into the super

heroes, Charlie Angels' type thing. [Laughter]

Cook: Yeah, that's interesting! Did you ever have a mentor; I guess is the word,

when you were going to school? Any high school teacher that was a good influence

on you?

Wilson: I had 00:33:00one high school teacher was, actually a high school counselor, a

couple of counselors because we were going through-- my mom-- she was a drug

addict for a while. I had to be and my brothers had to be taken away from her

and I started living with my dad. That's when the counselors came in and tried--

I mean I guess they tried-- but I was moving around so much I couldn't really go

to one single counselor but they influenced me, the counselors.

Cook: How's your mom doing now?

Wilson: She's okay now but she turned from that to alcohol.

Cook: That's hard.

Wilson: Yeah, she's doing a lot better than she use to because she's working

now; at first she didn't even work.

Cook: Does she have any kids with her now?

Wilson: She 00:34:00has two of my brothers, the 18-year-old, 'cause he's still in

school; he's graduating this year and the 16-year-old, he's still in school.

Cook: Uh-huh, did you say her first name?

Wilson: Patricia.

Cook: Patricia, okay. All right, can you say what she was addicted to?

Wilson: She was addicted to crack-cocaine.

Cook: Do you think that you're closer to your dad than your mom? Or do you feel

still close to your mom?

Wilson: I still feel close to my mom, like I still talk to her all the time

'cause I kind of know she didn't-- even though she knew she was addicted to

drugs and like didn't have running water, we didn't have lights. We were

homeless for a while on the streets. She still didn't want us to leave her and I

still feel close to her and now she's better. She's trying to do better. My

dad-- I feel close to him. We argue a lot but I guess it's not serious arguing.

It's just he doesn't like the fact 00:35:00that I came here.

Cook: Why? 'Cause it's predominantly white?

Wilson: Yeah, he wanted me to go to ODU [Old Dominion University], which I find

interesting cause that is mostly white too. But he wanted me to stay close to

home or go to a predominantly black school. I mean we argue but we don't argue

seriously 'cause he doesn't pay for my school.

Cook: You have that power?

Wilson: Yeah, I said, "You know you don't have to pay for my school, so?"

Cook: You know he's proud of you!

Wilson: Yeah, we don't have a really, a really, I don't want to say loving, just

a touchy-feely relationship, neither one of my parents because we don't hug each

other and stuff like that, never have.

Cook: How old were you when you went to live with him?

Wilson: I was 15, pretty old. It just got to the point where I had no other

choice because I wanted to live with him for a while, for three years before

that. But he was always in a bind where he never had enough room. He finally was

able to buy a 00:36:00 house.

Cook: Does he still keep in contact with your mom?

Wilson: They never talk ever since they separated. They separated when I was one

and they couldn't get a divorce until years later. They don't talk to each

other. It's not that they're mad at each other; they just don't feel the need to

talk to each other.

Cook: 'Cause they're different people-- do you like your step-mom?

Wilson: Yeah she's nice. I have a stepsister that lives with them. She's going

through a phase. She's 15 and so she's going through that phase.

Cook: My son that's nine, he's going be ten. One day he loves me and the next

day he looks at me and he goes, 00:37:00"You are so weird!" and I'll go, "What?" and

he'll say, "You're so old-fashioned! You don't know the right music to listen

too!" I just go, "Me?"

[Laughter]

Cook: It's awful! Do you have any African American role models? Especially women?

Wilson: It's kind of hard to explain. With everything that was going on I didn't

really think-- like people say stuff like that "would you never do this and

that?" I didn't because I was always worried about what I'm going eat or are we

going to have water when I come home from school. Which we never did and where

are we going to get lights from? How many candles do we need?

Cook: Oh gosh!

Wilson: I never really thought about-- there are times when I guess I was nine

where everything was normal. Then from 9 to 15 everything was-- 00:38:00like we stayed

in a shelter. So I don't really think about it.

Cook: That's so hard! How did you get interested in math? Were you good in high

school in math?

Wilson: Yeah I ended up being good in it. I actually failed pre-calculus and

then I took it again and figured out it was a lot easier than I thought it was.

Then I just started taking geometry and trigonometry and I was just--

Cook: In high school?

Wilson: Uh-huh. It was easier than calculus!

Cook: Gosh!

Wilson: I felt that it was easy so I was like "maybe I would like math" and I'm

actually more of a history person in college because I love reading and I write

better than I thought I did. I thought I wasn't a good writer. I don't like to

write. I don't like to 00:39:00proofread. When I write my paper, I don't proofread it, I

just spell check and I still get A's! I'm like "I should be a history major!"

Cook: Really? What professors have you taken courses from here?

Wilson: I've taken-- she's a humanities professor-- um I just had her last

semester-- the medieval world-- I forgot her name.

Cook: Darlene Pryd?

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: Oh you did? Did you like her?

Wilson: I liked her class.

Cook: I think she's leaving; actually she got a job. I don't really know her but

she came into one of our seminars and spoke and she just seemed like she had so

much passion or something! [Laughter]

Wilson: Yeah about the medieval world!

Cook: Yeah!

Wilson: But she is a good teacher! I think those are the best teachers, who have

a passion. And I had Dr. Banks. I am taking one of her classes now and I took a

class before. She's a good professor. She's a hard grader but I still ended up

getting a B in her class.

Cook: What is she in?

Wilson: She's a Black 00:40:00Studies professor.

Cook: Do you know Dr. Kershaw?

Wilson: Yeah, but I never took any of his classes. Also, I forgot her name-- I

am taking a Women's Studies class, Women and International Human Rights.

Cook: Oh that sounds really interesting!

Wilson: Yeah, there is a lot of writing but--

Cook: Oh that's all I do-- I hate it! In fact this afternoon I have to go back

and write two papers.

Wilson: See I hated it but-- I don't know-- I get my paper right and "you got an A!"

Cook: I know you are going to graduate in August, but if you need a course if

you could take Dr. Bunch-Lyons'. You would just love her!

Wilson: If they're offering her during summer school, I probably will because I

have electives. The only reason I'm not graduating is because I have one class

to take and the rest-- nine credits of electives that I don't know what I'm

going to take. So I might take her class.

Cook: I had the same thing happen! Then I had to take a writing intensive course

in IDST and that was my 00:41:00last course I had to take. I took it with Michael

Herndon and I was so dreading it! Because I walked like you're gonna do and I

thought "oh gosh" and it was so much fun, I just loved it!

Wilson: I'm taking the writing intensive course for IDST and I don't like it.

Cook: Who's the professor?

Wilson: Brian Britt.

Cook: Oh he's the bible guy.

Wilson: Yes. It's more of a discussion type thing. The only reason I like his

class is because you can discuss it. But other than that it's not what I - I

don't like the way it's structured.

Cook: Uh-huh. You can tell right away?

Wilson: Yeah! That's how I could tell because anytime you're confused after you

read the syllabus it's like huh-- what are we supposed to do?

Cook: Yeah! There are some 00:42:00good African American professors in history. There's

Woody Farrar. I like him. I think he is eccentric.

Wilson: Yeah, he is! I've never had his class but I see him around. Everybody

sees him around on campus.

Cook: He went to University of Maryland when my sister, older sister, went there

and he was the leader of the Black Student Union. He's very militant, was very

militant. Then he went into the Navy. There's Dr. Floyd-Thomas--

Wilson: Yeah we met. I met her in one of Dr. Bank's class.

Cook: But then there's her husband.

Wilson: I know she taught a religious course. I'm not sure.

Cook: She's in Humanities or Women's Studies or something. Dr. Bunch-Lyons-- I

consider my mentor here. I just really like her. I kind of digressed there. Oh 00:43:00yeah! Tell me about the organization you belong to on campus and what you do?

Wilson: Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Inc. We are a service-oriented sorority. I mean

we have a certain amount of service projects. It's not a set limit. But the

national's would be like you need to do service projects. We do a lot of

programs like forums and stuff like that. You know the resume writer and we do

social stuff too but it's mostly for a purpose-- like a party to raise money or

something and we're very small right now. We have four active members. We have

another member but she isn't active and we have four active members on campus.

Cook: Is that the only black service sorority on campus?

Wilson: All the black sororities and fraternities are service. We are all

supposed to be committed in service. How many are on campus? Six, seven, seven

on campus.

Cook: Just for women?

Wilson: No!

Cook: Oh, for 00:44:00 men?

Wilson: It's three, three women and four guy, four fraternities.

Cook: I'm really ignorant on sororities and fraternities but I have a

stereotype-- so the service divides the other kind that you always think of as

being big partiers?

Wilson: I think our-- I think for us our color divides us from the other kind

because there might be some service fraternities out there because I know there

are business ones, like Delta Sigma Epsilon. They're a business fraternity. I

don't know. I think it's mostly our color that divides us because most people

don't even know we're service 'cause they might see us Stepping' and 00:45:00think, you

know that's all we do, like throwing a party-- they think that's all we do. I

know a lot of people think that's all we do is Step and it's not!

Cook: What does that mean, 'Step?'

Wilson: It's sort of-- it's not like dance-- sort of like different steps you know.

Cook: I think I know what you mean.

Wilson: Uh-huh, it's like Step shows.

Cook: Yeah, I'm trying to think like the Irish have their stomping and it's--

you do that?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: You do that? Wow, I'd like to see that!

Wilson: It was in an article in the paper about the Homecoming Step Show.

Cook: Of your Sorority?

Wilson: It was all the ones that were in the Homecoming Step Show.

Cook: You think I could- Is there a picture too? Is there a picture of it? Could

I put that picture on the website?

Wilson: Yes.

Cook: Okay.

Wilson: You probably have to go to Collegiate Times because it was in the

Collegiate Times.

Cook: In the Fall?

Wilson: It was a while ago. Yeah, in the Fall.

Cook: Okay, but Fall 00:46:002000? Oh that would be so good!

Wilson: If you wanted to go to one, we are having one March the 24th. It's a

really, really big Step show.

Cook: It is? I would love to, March 24th?

Wilson: Uh-huh, It's in Burruss Hall.

Cook: Why do I think I'm gone that weekend? I hope not because I could bring my

sons to that. They would love it!

Wilson: And the thing is with that one, a lot of white people go to that, like

the white sororities and fraternities help us. They might help us work the doors

or something.

Cook: Okay, all right, thanks! If I'm there this weekend, for some reason I feel

like my husband has some conference that weekend-- but he said the last weekend

in March, so maybe it's the next weekend. Cool so I can get your picture in

there. Is that the one organization you belong to?

Wilson: Yeah that's the only one because that's the only one I really have time

for. Because I'm 00:47:00president, it's a lot of time with only four members.

[Tape 1, Side 2]

Cook: Did you start it or was it already started?

Wilson: It was already started. It started in 1983. Don't quote me on that.

Cook: Do you recruit new members?

Wilson: The thing is we don't recruit. This is another difference between white

sororities and us. People who are interested just come up to one of us--

Cook: Oh okay, you don't do that stupid rush?

Wilson: No we don't. We don't do rush or any of that stuff. We might have an

interest meeting where we just sit down, sort of like a tea, and talk about our

sorority. It's all in the other person. If the other person is interested in us

then that's when we locally process it-- getting 00:48:00 in.

Cook: Would you say those are your best friends, the ones in the sorority?

Wilson: Uh-huh. They're my best friends. I hang out with them all the time.

Cook: Maybe I can interview one of your friends. You told me what your major

was. Why did you decide to switch to IDST?

Wilson: Math was just getting hard. That's not a really good major for black

people, I don't think.

Cook: Really? Why do you say that?

Wilson: No, because I'd be in the class and everybody talking-- everybody like

math majors would be talking and I just feel like-- because this girl when she

was in charge of the senior pictures for math majors and at that time I was a

math major, she was just going around asking everybody, "Did you get your senior

pictures signed up?" She didn't ask me but she asked everybody else.

Cook: She just walked right by you?

Wilson: She was just sitting in her chair and she was just asking people around

and I was one of the first people in the classroom. She didn't ask me.

Cook: Excuse me?

Wilson: Did you not think I was a math major?

Cook: Are there that many women in math?

Wilson: 00:49:00No. It's not a big major but I'm pretty sure it's not fifty-fifty. It's

probably about 30 percent.

Cook: Oh okay.

Wilson: It's not a small number.

Cook: When did you decide to switch to IDST?

Wilson: When I realized I was failing very, very badly. I should have switched a

long time ago but I was being stubborn about it. Maybe if I take this class it

will be better 'cause I understood the material. I'm just not a good test taker.

That's when I realized I could write a lot better than I take tests. So I always

did badly on my tests. My teachers, some of the math teachers, were actually

helpful. Then there's others who I just didn't like. 00:50:00They tried to help me with

my tests--

Cook: What would you say is a really hard math course? Like name some of them.

Wilson: All of the 3000 courses. Modern Algebra was pretty hard for me because I

had Dr. Reed and he's really, really helpful; one of the few helpful white

professors, I think. It was just hard. He did everything in his power to help me

and I just couldn't do it.

Cook: But you went for help. That's good. So they knew.

Wilson: Yeah I went for help all the time. I was always in his office hours and

then the linear algebra class I had last semester which is the 3000 level linear

algebra with Dr. Arnold. Dr. Arnold was kind of - 'I'll help you to an extent'

sort of thing. I think he's sort of like 'you should get this, this is easy!'

You know the type of person. So I didn't really feel like I could go to him all

the time because I needed help almost everyday. That was a hard class!

Cook: Those kinds of professors! You feel like you can't go to 'cause they're

looking, at least in my case, at you like "You can't get this?"

Wilson: Like they help you just because they have to because of their office 00:51:00hours. I think that's the only reason why. And I had Vector Calculus. I think

the teacher was just horrible!

Cook: What kind of calculus?

Wilson: Vector calculus. They call it Calculus and Multi-variables. I totally

understood the material, understood what she was talking about-- when I take the

test-- Oh, I don't, I can't get it! She just writes on the board for an hour

fifteen minutes and we copied notes for an hour fifteen minutes and she won't

stop to explain or anything. She'd be like "do you understand this?" and

everybody just be writing so fast that we couldn't be like, "I didn't know."

Cook: That's not being a teacher.

Wilson: No! So that's when I started not liking math. I still like it I'm just

not good at it.

Cook: I bet you could still be a math teacher though with that in your background.

Wilson: Yeah. I couldn't teach though. Everybody told me I should be a teacher.

Cook: No I did the same thing. Everyone told me I could and then I did volunteer

work and I said, "I can't do it." I'd get in trouble, especially in high

school-- I know I would yell at some of them 'cause they'd annoy me.

Wilson: (Laughter) Yeah, I like kids-- 00:52:00but then again I don't.

Cook: Same here. You know you feel if they were trying to be sassy answering you

back you'd just feel like-- (Laughter) Yeah, I know I couldn't either. Well

anyway that's another subject. So then you switched to IDST which is a very good

major. It really gives you a broad education. I think it's wonderful.

Wilson: I wish I would have switched earlier. I found out that I really liked

statistics and I want to do that. I never knew what statistics was until I came

here and I had to take it for math. I was doing better in statistics than I was

doing in my math classes and I wanted to switch to a statistics minor but I have

to take these-- I have to graduate in December-- take an extra course. One

course I would need is only offered in the 00:53:00fall and I switched my major in the

middle of the fall semester.

Cook: So you're good at statistics? Statistics is very good to have on your

resume nowadays. I took one statistics course. It was very hard for me.

Wilson: I think I had a good teacher. He was a graduate student, a PhD

candidate, I think. He was like this is what you need to know and this is what

I'm going to teach you and that's it. It is like no messing around. He'd teach

and if he didn't need the whole hour and fifteen minutes he let them go.

Cook: What is his name?

Wilson: Wilcox-- Wilcox? He was a graduate student.

Cook: Teachers really make a big difference, I think.

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: Do 00:54:00you think the white teachers treated you well? Did you ever have

situations where they didn't?

Wilson: It was the whole-- I think the whole, you know, algebra situation

because everybody was telling me-- even some black people told me-- that he's a

good teacher but I didn't have that same vibe 'cause he knew I was struggling in

the class, even though I really needed that Linear Algebra. I ended up late

dropping it but I was really struggling in that class.

Cook: You tried--

Wilson: Yeah, I really tried.

Cook: Do you think he treated you that way as a woman or as an African American

or both?

Wilson: I think it's both and just as a struggling student, 'cause I told him

that I needed a good grade in that class. He's like, "Well I don't think that's

going to happen." I don't know and he kept sort of saying it under his breath.

Cook: That is annoying!

Wilson: Then in most of the classes, like my computer science teacher-- I'm

having trouble with that. He's helping a little bit 'cause everybody had trouble

with programming their first time so he's all right. He's sort of helping.

Cook: But he treats you nice?

Wilson: 00:55:00 Uh-huh.

Cook: That's good. How about women teachers? Do you have any?

Wilson: I've had some. I had a couple of women math teachers and they treated

everybody about the same. I had a lot of big classes like in Squires Colonial

and Norris and other big places.

Cook: Okay. What do you want to do after you graduate?

Wilson: I'm going into the Navy, which I don't want to do.

Cook: Have you committed?

Wilson: I was committed since freshman year.

Cook: Oh really?

Wilson: Since sophomore year actually, they make you sign a contract 'cause I

was on scholarship. I had a four-year scholarship. That's not what I 00:56:00want to do though.

Cook: So how long will you have to do that?

Wilson: Ummm-- for four years so that's where all the minority stuff comes in--

and Navy, I don't like the battalion. I don't like ROTC here 'cause their people

just are not friendly and they get me mixed up with other black people.

Cook: The higher up people?

Wilson: The higher up people, anybody. The older people get me mixed up with--

'cause there was another black girl, she graduated in December and they'd get me

mixed up with her. They got me mixed up with other people and I got a bad

evaluation because I was mixed up with somebody.

Cook: What?

Wilson: I was really mad about that. I really didn't like it!

Cook: Did they apologize?

Wilson: No, I told them "this is not me!" They wrote a comment on something that

I supposedly did. I didn't do this! And I know who did it.

Cook: Good thing you spoke up.

Wilson: Yeah.

Cook: Oh, where will you be stationed?

Wilson: I don't know. I find that out Thursday.

Cook: What are the 00:57:00 possibilities?

Wilson: All over the world, Norfolk and San Diego, Florida, Mississippi, Japan,

Pearl Harbor.

Cook: Oh my gosh, Ebony!

Wilson: But I'm also one of the last people on the list, so I get the last picking.

Cook: Don't go on a sub right now. Things aren't good for subs

Wilson: I can't go on a sub

Cook: Can it only be men on subs?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: Can you swim?

Wilson: Um-- a little bit.

Cook: Do you have to be able to swim really well to be in the Navy?

Wilson: No, 'cause I can't swim well. I can swim enough to try to swim to the

shore, swim to survive.

Cook: Oh you can? Okay! You know you always see these big waves-- they'll make

you do a test and all?

Wilson: Uh-huh. Like I 00:58:00can't fly. I think my grandmother was so upset about

this-- even though I didn't want to fly because they told me you had a trait of

sickle cell.

Cook: Oh really? When did you find that out?

Wilson: I knew ever since I was little because I had problems with my ears. My

mom knew ever since I was born because they tell you. They did a physical and

they were like, "You know you have a trait of sickle cell?" Well it was like,

"You got a sickle cell, and you can't fly." So I was like okay 'cause I don't

want to fly. And my grandmother she was upset, my dad's mom, because she's all

into racial stuff like it's racist because apparently they're not supposed to do

that anymore because a lot of African Americans have a trait of sickle cell. It

doesn't bother me. It's just that I have the trait.

Cook: And I wonder where that rule came up or how long that rule is.

Wilson: That rule is probably about sixty years old. It came up when they wanted

to fly, like in the forties in World War II they wanted to fly and it was just

an excuse to weed out a lot of people.

Cook: Somebody needs to challenge that.

Wilson: Yeah 00:59:00'cause when he told me that I was like fine I didn't want to fly anyway.

Cook: I mean I wouldn't want to fly just because I don't even like to go on a

roller coaster but still for someone to tell you that's the reason that you can't.

Wilson: And another girl, she really wanted to fly, really, really bad. She

didn't have the sickle cell trait. She passed all the tests, all the swim tests

and she was black. She didn't get a spot. Like there are plenty of people who

have bad grades, who weren't good in the ROTC program and they got a pilot slot.

It's competitive.

Cook: Is this at Tech?

Wilson: Uh-huh. It's at this ROTC.

Cook: Is it political? Like who you know and stuff?

Wilson: I don't think so. I don't know why she didn't get it because there are

other people who are less qualified than she was and they got a slot. She was

very, very upset. She really wanted to fly.

Cook: There could be double prejudices; it could be being 01:00:00a female and being

black. And you have to decide if you want to fight it and all that.

Wilson: Yeah it was a big difference between driving a ship and flying.

Cook: Uh-huh!

Wilson: That's what I'm going to be doing.

Cook: Do you have any preference where you'd like to be or not like to be?

Wilson: My dad wants me to stay close to home we're arguing about that now.

Cook: You're his only daughter; dads are close to their daughters. (Laughter)

Wilson: Yeah, his has four kids.

Cook: Uh-huh.

Wilson: And my mom has four. So it gets confusing but I'm the only one that's

really close to him because two of my brothers they don't live with him. So I'm

the only one that would call him all the time and talk to him and stuff. "So you

got to stay close to home! You better choose Norfolk!"

Cook: Did you?

Wilson: I don't know yet.

Cook: Oh do you get to, at least, say some places?

Wilson: Uh-huh. I can say where I want to go and what slots they have left open.

Cook: Did you put in for any overseas?

Wilson: I don't want to go overseas. I think the farthest I'd go is like San 01:01:00Diego because I was there before.

Cook: I like San Diego. I've been there once.

Wilson: I didn't think I was going to like it.

Cook: Me neither.

Wilson: But I liked it. It's a little weird; the people there are weird.

Cook: I had this stereotype of southern California blondes and everyone's going

to be real ditsy and it really wasn't like that.

Wilson: No it was like all Mexicans.

Cook: Yeah?

Wilson: That's the only thing about it-- it's like there were not a whole lot

black people there.

Cook: There's not?

Wilson: But I don't mind. It's a nice place to be.

Cook: The weather is so perfect.

Wilson: The weather is scary to me 'cause it's never raining.

Cook: I know!

Wilson: I didn't think I was going to miss the rain but--

Cook: When did you go there?

Wilson: Over the summer. The Navy sent me on a-- we call it a cruise-- it's

supposed to be training and 01:02:00stuff but it's really a paid vacation for us.

Cook: Wow!

Wilson: I was lucky enough to get to San Diego twice between sophomore and

junior year and my junior year and senior year for a month in the summer.

Cook: Is that hard to be alone and then go off to a new and different place?

Wilson: No 'cause I like doing that. Like when I was in San Diego they say stay

with other midshipman or stay in a group but I'd go off in San Diego on my own

and explore and go to Tijuana and look around and stuff.

Cook: That's a trip, Tijuana; I've never been there but I've heard it's almost

sad. Isn't it?

Wilson: It depressed me a lot. I mean you get different emotions because it's

depressing and then you're like wow I'm in a different country. But it's really depressing.

Cook: I've heard there're homeless little kids just walking the streets and

animals and--

Wilson: I made the mistake of um-- I guess I see it as a mistake not really

though-- Soon as I crossed the border it was obvious we were American. They had

a big Virginia Tech shirt on (Laughter) and uh it's obvious. Everybody who was

crossing the border at the time were Americans and some girl came up to me with

a 01:03:00cup and she was a little girl! I put a dime in there. I had fifty dimes, I

don't know why I had a handful of dimes. All these kids, like thirty kids, all

of them had cups. I was like, "Oh my God!" No one told me. They were like don't

give them money because everybody else.

Cook: How could you not though?

Wilson: I don't know. I was like if I had enough dimes-- I just gave them all

the dimes. I had enough so I just gave them all the dimes and I bought some

packs of gum from a little girl. Everybody else started running up to me again.

Cook: I can just picture that. Were they just little Mexicans, so cute?

Wilson: There were just little kids and a couple of them had their mothers. It

looked like they were too sick to even stand up. I was walking around more in

downtown Tijuana. I gave this little girl, she was begging you could see her mom

was just sitting 01:04:00there, like she was sick and the other kids around her just

gave her a dollar. I was like, cause a dollar to me didn't mean much of anything

'cause only took about 20 dollars down there and I gave away only 5. But it

seemed like a lot because I gave money to a lot of people, like a quarter here,

a quarter there.

Cook: Yeah I have a soft heart but it makes me think we're so sheltered here.

Wilson: Yeah cause this little Mexican boy ran up to me and the other girl, she

had a big Penn State on her shirt and she was white and he went up to us and was

like, " Do you have a dollar, do you have a dollar?" We were like no we don't

have any more money and he was like, "Oh you Americans, you are all rich! You

have swimming pools. You are a millionaire."

Cook: No!

Wilson: But he was one of the lucky kids cause his parents had a shop so we were

like, "No you lucky. Your parents are working." You know.

Cook: Gosh, I think Mexico City is one of the biggest cities in the world, has a

hundred million people or something crazy like that. I think I remember that

from a course.

Wilson: Really eye opening for me. When people read my shirt, I met um five, a

group 01:05:00of black girls who went to Tech which was surprising 'cause there were no

black people. "Yeah I went to Tech." I was like yeah you are black though and

you're in Mexico.

Cook: That's very coincidental.

Wilson: They were visiting Mexico. That was a big coincidence. I don't know why

and then I met people from Roanoke when we went to Hard Rock Cafe-- and yeah you

go to Tech - big Virginia Tech on my shirt. We live in Roanoke, it's a small

world. We met a lot of people. The girl from Penn State was like, "A lot of

people from where you're from!" No not really I don't know why.

[Laughter]

Cook: This is unusual!

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: I have a niece that lives in San Diego and her fiancé is um, what's that

word JAG-- a Marine, what is it-- something general, Judge Advocate--?

Wilson: Judge Advocate General.

Cook: Yeah he 01:06:00just started; he just went through all that. Left Quantico and

went back, went to San Diego. I've never been on any of the big Navy ships

there. I want to take my kids there.

Wilson: It was a big base. Norfolk's base is even bigger.

Cook: Gosh!

Wilson: It's like, it's hard-- I was on Norfolk Naval Base my freshman year.

After my freshman year they sent me to Norfolk. It's a big base. Man I'm from

Norfolk; I don't go on the base! We are not a military family. My family is

anti-military so--

Cook: Yeah that's why I think you're so brave because I think a lot of people

that go into the military are from military families. It's just really brave of

you, I admire you.

Wilson: Yeah I have a couple of cousins in the military but no one--

Cook: Usually a parent or something, even Janelle, her parents--

Wilson: Yeah I think her dad was in the Air Force or something.

Cook: And used to travelling around and stuff. Do you, do you see yourself down

the line, going back and settling in Norfolk or do you think you want to go

somewhere else?

Wilson: I see myself settling in Norfolk. I just like the area. I never realized

I liked it until I came here and I missed flat 01:07:00land. When I was in San Diego I

missed rain. I just miss everything. I don't miss the humidity but that's about

all. I mean I see myself-- if I get stationed there it wouldn't be any big

dissapointment, I'd save money, I'm close to home. I told my mom I was going to

live with her. She's all excited about it.

Cook: Do you want to get married some day and have kids?

Wilson: I do. Not when I'm in the military though I don't see how they can do

it. If I ever have a kid when I'm in the military-- getting married-- I'd have

to get out as soon as possible.

Cook: 'Cause don't you have shift work when in the military and if you have a kid--

Wilson: Yeah, because when I was in San Diego they set you up with a--sort of

like your mentor for the 01:08:00month and she had a little ten month old daughter and

it was such a hassle going to the babysitter even though her babysitter was like

her family so she didn't have to pay for childcare or anything but it was such a hassle.

Cook: But don't you feel sad for the little kid?

Wilson: Yeah and her dad was on a six-month deployment in the Marines. And her

mom was about to go six-month deployment as soon as her dad got back. So, I

couldn't. They always complain. "I don't want to leave my wife and kids!" And

you go why are you in the Navy? You know?

Cook: So as of right now after you finish your four years you see yourself

getting out of it?

Wilson: I'm sorry-- I get seasick!

Cook: Do you?

Wilson: I didn't realize that until after--

Cook: Can you do anything about it?

Wilson: You can take medicine for it.

Cook: Dramamine though?

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: That always makes me feel weird. It gives me energy in my legs. There's

something that you can put back here--[back of the ears] a little circle thing I

see people in airplanes. I get it [motion sickness] on airplanes and if I go out

more than a little bit from the shore. I like to 01:09:00be on the edge of water.

Wilson: Yeah! (Laughter) That's why I see myself in Norfolk because I feel if

I'm in the middle of a country I don't--I feel like I'm surrounded. I need to be--

Cook: Do you feel almost claustrophobic?

Wilson: Uh-huh!

Cook: My family's from the Eastern Shore in Maryland, so I'm used to flat land

and water everywhere.

Wilson: Yeah I'm like used to bridges and tunnels-- like no one is used to the

under tunnel thing.

Cook: That big one; the 27-mile one?

Wilson: We get a lot of underwater tunnels. Its just second nature to us. We're

used to it.

Cook: I don't know if I like that, the tunnel.

Wilson: No one likes it. No one does unless they grew up around there. Like

Janelle wanted to come pick me up and she said she was about to turn back around

because she said she saw these cars going underwater.

Cook: 01:10:00Did she do it?

Wilson: Yeah she went under 'cause she had to come get me from home. [Laughter]

She was like, "You didn't tell me there was an underground tunnel!" She was mad!

Cook: And it's so long!

Wilson: Yeah 'cause she was coming from Maryland, from Northern Virginia.

Cook: Yeah!

[Laughter]

Wilson: "You didn't tell me I had to go underwater! I saw these cars

disappearing in the water!" I was like I forgot!

Cook: 'Cause you don't think of it. It's just normal--

Wilson: Maybe 'cause she says she had family down there. I thought she knew.

It's funny!

Cook: Okay, what problems pertaining to African Americans do you think the

university needs to address to make it more diverse, to attract more black students?

Wilson: I say--I think to attract more black students you have to have more

black students.

Cook: So retain more black students?

Wilson: Yeah! You need to retain. I'm not going to say 01:11:00we're stupid or anything.

I think it's the whole academic system. It isn't favorable. Because-it doesn't-

it makes me not want to learn--but when I see a class full of all white people

and I'm just sitting there--I feel even more depressed so I don't know what the

school can do about that. As far as the Corps we lose, after freshman year, a

lot of black freshman just get out. There are a lot of them that just--'cause we

get a lot for their freshman year but after that they all get out. So by the

time senior year--like now there're four black seniors.

Cook: I didn't know that. Why do you think they leave? Because it's just lonely?

Wilson: 'Cause it's not a good environment. They want to do more 01:12:00'Cause you just

want to see more faces like yourself--like how they make you hang out with your

buds. It's like you are not always going to want to hang out with them. And you

don't do the same things. It's really hard for people to adjust who grew up in

all black neighborhoods. They come here and there are all white people.

Cook: Do you think it can happen here?

Wilson: I think it can but it has to start with - as far as black people just

getting together - it has to start with the freshman class cause if you don't

have a good freshman class then everything else is going to go down. I've heard

a lot of people that came in my year who are seniors, who are fifth year seniors

from '96, complain about how they don't see a lot of freshman and sophomores 01:13:00'cause most of the members are in the Greek organizations now and as far as I

know are juniors and seniors. All of us, we are going to graduate and then it's

like where are the sophomores and freshman?

Cook: Where are they?

Wilson: I don't know and a lot of black people live off campus too. For some

reason on campus isn't where black people want to live, where a lot of people

want to live. It's kind of hard. I always liked Black Student Preview when they

had it. I know they switched it to Minority Student Preview but I think our

black student preview in '97 was big. I really liked it.

Cook: What was that?

Wilson: When all the black students who got accepted into Tech, well most of

them in this area from Maryland, North Carolina, and Virginia, they'd bus us

here to Tech. Which was good because I would have never came to Tech had they

not done that. I didn't go to orientation or anything and this was for a weekend

during our senior 01:14:00year, the end of our senior year and we got to meet the other

black people here. It's pretty nice. They changed it a little bit and now it's

not the way it used to be I guess, I heard.

Cook: So now it's probably called minority student--

Wilson: Yeah its called Minority Student Preview and they are trying to do a

little too much now it seems. I think its good they're trying to reach out to

Asians and Native Americans but I think they're trying to do too much. I mean I

don't know, I think they should have just kept it. If they want to have Asians,

they can do an Asian one 'cause FASA is pretty big here.

Cook: What is that?

Wilson: The Filipino American Students, I'm pretty sure they have a lot.

Cook: I didn't know that.

Wilson: You know there are a lot of Indians here on this campus?

Cook: Indian, East Indians?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: I'm trying to find American Indian students to interview.

Wilson: I know an American Indian student.

Cook: You do? 01:15:00Will you give me a name?

Wilson: But he identifies with the white culture. This is an American Indian who

used to have the Confederate flag hanging up on his wall.

Cook: Okay.

Wilson: I mean if you want to interview him; he's from North Carolina. I think

he's from a small town in North Carolina. He's Native American, I don't know how.

Cook: Well let me have his name.

Wilson: Thomas Brantley

Cook: Is he in the Corps?

Wilson: Yeah, he's in the Corps.

Cook: Thomas Brant-- can you spell it?

Wilson: B-r-a-n-t, I think, e-l-y.

Cook: Okay, thanks!

Wilson: Or maybe the t and e are switched, something like that, He's a

high-ranking person in the Corps.

Cook: Well I can try.

Wilson: You can 01:16:00 try.

Cook: So what you are saying is with the Black Student Preview, it gave you a

sense of a black community here?

Wilson: Uh-huh because there was more of a black community here.

Cook: Okay and that would help with retention?

Wilson: Uh-huh!

Cook: Feeling that you had other people like you on campus? Wow I should tell

that to Michael Herndon.

Wilson: Uh-huh! A lot of people who hosted us for some reason, odd reason, there

were a lot of black people in the Corps. Some of them graduated, Some are still

here. But a lot of people who hosted us kept us in their rooms or in the Corps

and I saw, for some reason, I saw black people. I saw plenty of black people in

the Corps and they all got out the next year when I got in the Corps. [Laughter]

It's like where did so and so go? Oh she got out last year. But I just saw her.

They were all second semester freshman. Most of them who hosted us were either

freshman or sophomores and they got out.

Cook: That's not fair. Do you have any ties with any-- I guess I asked you this

already-- black 01:17:00women on campus? For instance do you know Barbara Pendergrass

the Dean of Students? I know sometimes she forms close ties with especially

black women students

Wilson: Uh-huh I don't really talk to her that much.

Cook: Would that be helpful in retaining students, especially for women, to have

a more African American women mentors on campus?

Wilson: Yes!

Cook: Is there anything I haven't talked about that you want to say? Anything profound?

Wilson: No.

Cook: Is it hard because I'm white to answer questions?

Wilson: No.

Cook: Because sometimes its hard for me. I feel awkward asking 01:18:00some questions.

Would you-- somehow I know the answer to this-- would you advise any friends or

family to come to Virginia Tech?

Wilson: Uh-huh.

Cook: You would? Oh okay!

Wilson: Yes I would. I would. I just warn them it's not what you think. But I

like this school. I tell a lot of people this. I like the campus. I like the way

the campus looks but I just don't like the people who go here. I don't like the

people who go here. I don't like a lot of the teachers but I like the campus a

lot because it's different from back home I guess. I just wanted something

different. I thought it was going to be colder and I'm disappointed 'cause I

like winter.

Cook: Me too [the winter].

Wilson: And I like the snow. I like a lot of snow.

Cook: Me too! I'm the same way. I'm always happy when I wake up and it's cold

and snowy.

Wilson: If I did it all over the only thing I would change is my major. I

wouldn't be in that major.

Cook: Do you think you might have gone into statistics?

Wilson: Yeah, statistics. I didn't know what 01:19:00statistics was. So it was either

math, history or Spanish for me.

Cook: Do you wish you had someone giving you guidance more about what's out there?

Wilson: Yes because I didn't go to orientation so I already felt like I was

behind. And I thought math--I don't know.

Cook: You might have been a good engineer, if you could do calculus, you

might've been--no, you don't think so?

Wilson: Engineering is hard.

Cook: Do you like sitting at computers or do you like doing better, up and doing stuff.

Wilson: I like reading.

Cook: Me too!

Wilson: I like reading. Reading is interesting.

Cook: What do you like to read?

Wilson: I was really interested in the Holocaust. I took the Holocaust class

here. I didn't really learn anything new. I was just excited they had a

Holocaust class.

Cook: I wanted to take that. Do you know that is one of my interests too? I'm an

American Historian but the Holocaust is a big deal to me because when I grew up

in New 01:20:00York-- a lot of my friends, my Jewish friends parents-- I'd see tattoos

and I didn't know because no one talked about it. I even found out that a guy in

my class, mother and her mother, her mother was a young mother, survived

Auschwitz. I didn't know that my teacher was a survivor. There was a movie last

night based on a true story of a Jewish woman who tried to get Jewish immigrants

out of Germany then to the U.S. and the second half is Wednesday night, if you

want watch it.

Wilson: Oh, Hayden I think it's called.

Cook: Yeah, yeah you're right!

Wilson: I saw the commercial for it.

Cook: I wanted to watch that. I read so much about it.

Wilson: When I was twelve-- I actually got interested when I was twelve because

in school, our history books of course were very inadequate--there was a small

paragraph about-- I mean they had a little section about World War II. It was

about a 01:21:00paragraph. "Oh by the way, Adolph Hitler killed six million Jews." --

the death chambers and showers. I was like, "What?" Can we get more information

on that?

Cook: So you went on your own and read about it?

Wilson: Then I just went in our middle school library. For some reason there was

a lot of information on it. So I started reading on it when I was twelve. I just

didn't stop until I started reading the same books over and over again. I went

to the museum--

Cook: You know what, Ebony, so many people don't even want to know about it.

People will say to me "Why do you want to read about that. It's so terrible!" I

think we need to read about it because we need to know that people can kill

people on this mass scale and not look at them as human.

Wilson: Reading about it just irritated me that they just had that small little

paragraph. Granted I was twelve but by then I think the L.A. riots were going

on, I'm pretty sure, we're used to violence by 01:22:00then and it just irritated me.

Cook: The U.S. knew about it and didn't do anything about it. They could've even

bombed near there. I know, gosh! Do you like to read mostly non-fiction?

Wilson: Uh-huh. I mean it just depends. I like a lot of Stephen King. I really

read a lot of them and John Grisham and books for class if they are interesting.

There are some classes, this IDST class talking about violence in the Bible. I

don't like a lot of theory because I don't like a lot of other people's opinion.

I don't care about other people's opinion and I took the Civil War class too.

Cook: What did you think of that? Did you think it was going to be better than

you thought at first?

Wilson: He was a good teacher but I kept having mixed emotions. I couldn't tell

if he was a racist or what, like this guy is a racist. But he'd start talking

about how he grew 01:23:00up with a black mammy. He didn't say 'mammy' but it was a

mammy and different stuff. He tried to do it from an objective-- like he'd try

to do it from a non-biased point of view but--

Cook: Why does he bring that up at all?

Wilson: I don't know and then he asks that no one videotape him or record him

because people get his words all screwed up and I could understand how people

could think yeah he's for the confederacy. That's why I had a problem he was

glorifying the whole Confederacy part of it and I was like, that's not good. He

was a good teacher but-- I took it for the Navy cause we had to have a history class.

Cook: Did you know that back in the sixties, well probably it went on even

longer than that, but during football games they'd played, the 01:24:00Highty Tighties

played, Dixie and then they'd raise the Confederate flag and finally it

made--well you can read about it on the website because some of the black women

students talked about it. Also some of the first black men students talk about

it. It made black students uncomfortable.

Wilson: It does. Like seeing the Confederate flag makes me uncomfortable. I see

that a lot in the Corps too.

Cook: It makes me uncomfortable.

Wilson: I don't like it and I think the Highty Tighties have a symbol on the

back of their shirts because they have company shirts and I think it's an

American flag and a Confederate flag. I have to look at it closely because it's

small. It's an American flag and Confederate flag on the back on their shirts.

It is very uncomfortable.

Cook: One whole company?

Wilson: Yes.

Cook: Are there any blacks in the company?

Wilson: There are blacks in their company. Their drum major was black last year.

Cook: I wonder how that makes them feel?

Wilson: I don't know and plus he's from the 01:25:00Caribbean. So it's a whole different perspective.

Cook: Yeah that's true.

Wilson: The other black girl they had she left.

Cook: That was really strange that they would have that now. Even right now they

have it?

Wilson: Yeah I have to look it up, because they don't really wear their shirts

that often. But I remember seeing a Confederate flag on the shirt. It was just

in passing though and I didn't want to stop.

Cook: That's really interesting! Well, this is off the subject, but have you at

all seen what's happening in the Blacksburg community about the high school and

the mascot?

Wilson: Yeah that's irritating to me.

Cook: Can you tell me how you feel about that?

Wilson: I feel that they should change the name because if it's bothering just a

few people, and I granted, I know that's kind of dangerous in that everything

bothers somebody in a way but stuff like that, they should change their name. I

think they are being real insensitive to Native Americans.

Cook: 01:26:00I kind of look at it as the white people are a privileged group and they

don't even see what they are doing, they don't even realize.

Wilson: Yeah!

Cook: They don't even realize because I'm looking at them and I'm thinking,

"Can't you see what you are doing?"

Wilson: It's like a white person saying, I don't think there's racism because

you don't experience.

Cook: Right, exactly!

Wilson: That really irritates me! They thought they'd just change the name. I

can just imagine a group of white people saying, "No we're not going to change it!"

Cook: It is. My husband's involved in all that but there's a American Indian

principal somewhere in Christiansburg way and as an example when one of the

students found out she was American Indian, he said, "Why don't you live in a

tee-pee then?" So there you go. There is the stereotyping. I mean American

Indians are just like anybody else. They become teachers and lawyers and

doctors. I was just curious what you thought about that. All right I guess

that's all. Thank you!

[End of tape]