Oral History with Marva LaJeune Felder Davis, March 27, 1999 (Ms1995-026)

Tamara Kennelly: Where are you from?

Marva Lajeune Felder: I'm from Chester, Virginia.

Kennelly: And that's where you grew up?

Davis: Grew up in Chester, Virginia. Little bit of a military brat. Spent a

little bit of time overseas as a very young child, but grew up in Chester,

Virginia, the majority.

Kennelly: So your father was in the military?

Davis: Yes.

Kennelly: And where did you go over seas?

Davis: Germany.

Kennelly: What age was that?

Davis: Very young. I was, I left Germany at about three and a half.

Kennelly: That's really young.

Davis: Really young. Lot of memories still.

Kennelly: Memories of that? Like what kind of memories?

Davis: I remember my first bike ride without the training wheels. 00:01:00I remember my

fall and the scar that I still have on my knee because of it on the first bike

ride without the training wheels. I remember the apartment that we used to live

in. We had a couple of German nannies that sat for us while my parents went to

work. The playground that was behind the apartment complex that we lived in.

I remember my mother being pregnant with my younger sister, and going into the

grocery store and how wide she was and just remembering she was full of baby.

I remember, I have a burn scar on my arm because I was toddling in places I

wasn't supposed to, and the nanny went in the kitchen to do something and she

had been outside in the family room ironing and watching me watch TV, and she

went into the kitchen to get something, and I walked over to the ironing board

which was, at that time seemed to be ten feet higher than me, and I lifted my

arm on top the ironing board and was moving it around, and the iron fell on my

arm, and I have a nice little iron scar that you can still see if look real

close, but a lot of little memories.

We traveled to other countries, and I remember going into a market and buying

our dutch shoes we wore around as kids. I used to carry a blanket around as my 00:02:00pacifier. And as we traveled on the express way in Germany, I lost one of my

blankets there. Just little things.

Kennelly: That's a lot to remember. [Laughing by both]. Riding a bike without

training wheels!

Davis: Yeah!

Kennelly: That's remarkable!

Davis: My dad had a white Ford, and he was out washing the car, and I had my

bike with training wheels, and I asked if he would take the training wheels off,

and he did, and he--you know how parents run with you down the side for a little

bit--and I was riding the bike, and he let go of me, and I went a little bit

further, fell down and scarred my knee. Got up and did it again! [Laughing]

Kennelly: Now you said you were an only child?

Davis: No, I'm one of four. My mother, I still have a younger sister also.

Kennelly: Four. Where are you in the family?

Davis: 00:03:00I'm the fourth of five.

Kennelly: And the fourth of five. Are they girls or boys?

Davis: All girls. No boys.

Kennelly: So, did your father stay in the military?

Davis: Yes. He did twenty years in the military. He--I believe he got out in 68,

after he did his, he did a year tour in Vietnam and came back and retired after

twenty years.

Kennelly: And what about your mother?

Davis: My mother was director of social work at the medical college of Virginia

for twenty--well she was there as a social worker for 20 plus years, and the

majority of it she was the director of social work.

Kennelly: So, when you grew up, you had a working mom, so she was working when

you were--

Davis: Oh yes. I had working parents. My grandfather was a practicing physician,

My grandmother, before I knew her was a librarian, and she worked in the office,

my grandfather's office for the years that I knew her growing up, so everybody worked.

Kennelly: It's been so many, it sounds like in your family, I mean, education was..

Davis: Very important.

Kennelly: --very important, 00:04:00not starting with your generation but starting back.

Davis: That's correct. That's correct. My dad went to college. My mother, my

dad's a Tuskegee graduate. My mother is a Fisk University graduate. My

grandfather graduated from Harry Medical School. My grandmother graduated from

Virginia State.

Kennelly: Now I'm not familiar with Chester. Is that a city?

Davis: It's a city. It's between Richmond and Petersburg Virginia. It's about 20

minutes south of Richmond.

Kennelly: And was that, when you were growing up, was that a well integrated place?

Davis: No, (pause) somewhat integrated, but not well integrated. It wasn't 50/50

at all. The student population in my junior high school and high school was

maybe 20 percent black.

Kennelly: So 00:05:00how was that for you growing up?

Davis: A pleasant change, actually. Grew up in the Richmond public schools up

until the middle of sixth grade, and that was a predominately black school, and

then transferred to Chester, Virginia and finished my, from the sixth grade

through graduation, through the 12th grade in Chester. It was a very big difference.

I told people my experiences in the Richmond schools at that time was.. not very

pleasant. I had a lot of friends. I never felt like I really was challenged to

learn in the Richmond public schools at that time. I don't recall, I don't

recall studying at any point. My grades were okay. I had some very good

teachers, and I 00:06:00remember some teachers challenging me a lot, but also I remember

just not, it was, to go to school, not really to take, I don't remember bringing

home homework to have to do.

Everything was done in the classroom. My science teacher was my math teacher,

and our science class we had maybe twice a week where the math teacher would

clear the front, put out long tables with the flasks and the burners and each

flask had different colors, and you'd mix these two colors and poof! you know

something would minorly blow up, and that was your science experiments.

Then I moved out to the Chesterfield County school system and had a very hard

time my first grading period. My grades were very poor, especially in math. I

was in the sixth grade, the middle of the sixth grade. My science grades were

very poor. We went from that flask experience to learning definitions,

memorizing scientific definition and so forth, and the concept of, that meant I

really had to go home and study which was incredibly new to me. 00:07:00I was in a

foreign language class, was taking French, and again I would have to go home and

study was a foreign event for me. So my first semester, my first grading period,

my grades were not that good. I learned how to math, my science teacher in

Chester was very good in understanding and talked with my parents.

I wasn't on my best behavior when I was there because I, I was the only

African-American in my class at that time. I didn't have very many friends.

Everything was a little bit different, but I enjoyed it because I had another

atmosphere at the same time.

When I was in the Richmond public schools, I had 00:08:00friends and I had people that

didn't like me because I was attractive, or not that I thought I was, but that

the guys thought I was, and I had people who because I had nice clothes, or what

they considered nice clothes, my parents were perceived as being rich, so I was

the pretty little rich kid with long hair which was enough for a lot of people

to not like me or not want to like me or want to get to know me, so there were

always those conflicts in the Richmond public schools. I moved out to Chester,

and I never really had a problem with race, but I never had a problem with being

a guy's friend and not having a girl care that he was a friend and only a

friend, you know someone to talk to.

I, it's just the experience was very different, I learned how to study when I

got into the county school systems. I had to learn how to study. And I remember

in the Richmond public schools, which was predominantly black at that time, I

remember learning my first, my first learning experience was I had two or three 00:09:00white students that came out of the private school into my classroom, and they

were incredibly smart to me. They didn't have to study. They knew the answers.

They got straight A's without even trying. And I equated at that early age that

the reason for that was because they went to private school. And so from that

age, which was very young, I always said my kids would go to private school

'cause that's where you really learn how to learn. They learned how to study and

what things were important at that time, and I kept that opinion even up through

college as a matter fact, and it didn't change until I was married and had moved

to another area and learned that it isn't the school, 00:10:00it's the principal or how

the principals run the schools. It's the superintendent and what there

requirements are for curriculum and board members and so forth. And then down to

the teacher themselves and what their expectations are going to be of the students.

But the Chester public schools--I befriended a white girl in the eighth grade,

ninth grade who was considered a geek because she was very smart and got all

A's, and we were put together in a science class to do a science project, and I

thought that was going to be the worst experience of my life [laughing], and we

did the science project together, and I got to know her, and she was a wonderful

person. We were best friends all through high school and into college. We've

lost touch since.

But she and that experience took me from a C average student to a B+ and A

student from the ninth grade on. I learned to study. She became a positive means

of competition to me to see who could get the better grade, and 00:11:00that, that was

my drive in studying, not just to make good grades, but to get me into the habit

of studying and learning to study. It was, she was my competition. She was a

straight A student, and it was I can do this too. And I carried it on from there.

I had a few teachers who also challenged me and the Chester school system. And

if you really, really got on my bad side as a teacher, that made me do even

better. I had one teacher walk into my classroom and tell all of us there was no

way we could get an A out of her class. Boom! That was all I needed. That was my drive.

Kennelly: That's what you mean getting on your bad side?

Davis: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was my drive. And when I, she would

deliberate, she was an English teacher ,and English was not my forte. Math I

enjoyed better. Science was an incredible challenge. I was always bored with

basic science, but as I got into the 00:12:00higher science levels I really enjoyed

that. When she walked in and told us there was no way we could get an A,

especially on this one particular exam, and I remember slumping down in my seat

and saying, "You watch." [Laughing by both].

And unfortunately the topic was--we were studying the writings of Thomas

Jefferson and George Washington, probably for me then the boringest subjects in

the world, and I remember going home and just sitting down on my bed and saying,

okay now what? We're studying Washington and his writings, studying Jefferson

and his writings, what is she going to want to know about? This test--because

part of it was multiple choice and part of it was essay, and what is this essay

going to be about?

And something, I don't know where it came from, but I did open up both of those

books and thinking about what we had gone through in class and said okay, hmm, 00:13:00let's contrast the writings of Washington and Jefferson. What are some of the

difference here? Don't ask me where that thought came from, but I was determined

to get this A, and I needed every angle that I could come up from, and I started

listing, just writing down, doing some comparisons between the two--comparisons.

Guess what my essay question was?

Kennelly: Oh my God! [Laughing]

Davis: Compare and contrast the writings of Thomas Jefferson and George

Washington. I said thank you, Lord! [Laughing]. I sat down and I didn't stop

until that, that page--it was supposed to be a two page essay--it was done. I

went back, proofread it, dotted all the i's, crossed every t, made sure every

period's where it was supposed to be, every comma where it was most appropriate.

Came back later on that afternoon, and said, I can't, I can't remember the

teacher's name at 00:14:00this point, but it's okay. You've got the grades right? Can

you tell me what I've made? She looked and she says, 'Well you missed one.'

Okay, can I see my paper? So she showed me the paper. And I said umm, okay. She

found some little grammatical error and she took off 3 or 4 points. And I said

okay, I missed one. But this is still an A isn't it! That's all I want to know!

This is an A! And I gave her the paper back and said, "I thought you said no one

would do it. Have a nice day." [Laughing] And left

Kennelly: Did she save face?

Davis: No. You know what? She was not a bad teacher. I think that was her way to

drive some of us, and I didn't even really realize then that that was, to tell

me I can't do something was as motivating as it actually was. I really looked at

it more from a high school mentality. Don't tell me what I can do. And it was

more personality conflict over that issue, more than I'm going to prove you

wrong. I never, until I got into college and got a little bit 00:15:00older, looked at

it as her way of driving us to accomplish something.

She was the first person that taught me ignorant was, the definition of

ignorant, because she came to the classroom and would tell us that we were

ignorant frequently, and I was offended by that as were a lot of other people,

and when she confronted with that we had to look up the definition of ignorance.

It was not necessarily defined, nor could I could actually take it that way

anymore as being dumb or as being derogatory, it is something that you don't

know. To be ignorant is something that you don't know 00:16:00or that you don't

understand. It does not explain why. Its just that you don't know. And she

trying to teach us. And when I looked at it from that perspective, I said okay,

I still don't like to be called ignorant [Laughing], but yeah, you're right.

There are some things I don't know. That's why I'm here.

Kennelly: Well what about, you know, sixth grade is kind of when, maybe it

starts earlier, but especially, you know, boy, girl things at parties and all

that a kid would think, were you included in the social life with your, when you

were in that, those ages prior to high school?

Davis: I had a lot of friends. I was not really included in a lot of social

activities. I was, and I wasn't. I consider myself somewhat outgoing and

talkative. I guess I've never been a shy person. But I had a very select group

of friends that I did things with. I really only had three good friends in high

school. It was a very cliquish environment.

I was the only black student in most of my 00:17:00classes. My girlfriend from the ninth

grade, Naesha, was my best friend. I had another black girl that had, she and I

became very good friends, Denise. And then a guy, he and I grew up like brothers

from high school on. He was James. And James and I did everything together.

Naesha and Denise would be in some different classes. James was in a few other

classes. A lot of times I was the only black student in my classes. But in terms

of extra-curricular activities, we did them based on what we were all doing. It

was basically three of the four of us that would hang out together, but James

and I did everything together.

So much so that we were always 00:18:00considered for the homecoming king and queen. We

said you can't do that because we're not a couple. We're just together. We're

just excellent friends. We're brothers and sisters. Our name got on the ballot

every time [laughing] because no one could believe I guess that we were that

close a friend and not really have that type of relationship.

And I didn't really have, I had some guys that I dated. I never really dated

anyone in my school. Even here, I never really dated anyone in my school. That

was too close. I never liked a lot of people in my personal business. But it was

nice that I had a lot of white friends. We, just as friends, just socialize with

during the day and talk to. Some of us, I never really, we never really went

out. And I never looked at it as a racial problem or anything. It was just that

I was more into my true friends, and we all did things together--went to

concerts, do sleep-overs, things like that. But I didn't really go out a whole

lot when I was in school. I was more of a homebody, just by choice for the most part.

Kennelly: Was James African-American?

Davis: Yes, he was African-American.

Kennelly: So, did you go to the school dances and things when you were in school?

Davis: With James.

Kennelly: With James. And you got nominated to be the..

Davis: Well yes, but we always cast it aside. We always 00:19:00declined because it was

a couple situation, and it was meant for couples that were going together, and

that's not the relationship that we had. We went to the junior and senior prom

together. He was a football player. So we always go to the games and cheer him,

you know, things like that. We would attend the activities, or I would go by

myself, or Naesha and I would go. We'd all meet there for school activities and

have a good time. That was about the extent of it.

Kennelly: And was that, was it in your high school, was that considered sort of

groundbreaking, that you guys would be even, you know, that they would want you

to run for homecoming king and queen? Where you the first African-American

couple even though you weren't a couple that was..

Davis: Considered?

Kennelly:--considered for that?

Davis: To my knowledge I think so, but race was never an issue in my life. I

knew about it, I know it existed, I knew racism existed, but I, I guess you, to

a large extent I was taught to cast that aside and move on. So I 00:20:00presume that a

lot of racial connotations or comments that might have been there that I heard

just-- and I kept right on going which probably aggravated a lot of people who

would have said them with intent to hurt.

But I wasn't confronted with racism actually till I got to Tech. I was in Vet

school, and it smacked me in the face kind of hard. But we all just there, we

were all just friends. I imagine that there were children who were raised not to

like blacks. Well they weren't around me when I was in school, because they

chose not be around me. We never had racial confrontations or anything in my school.

Kennelly: When did it smack you in the face?

Davis: 00:21:00Umm-- (pause) It was my junior year in Vet school. My roommate and I, who

was black, had decided not to stay in Fox Ridge anymore but to look for another

apartment because we were doing our fourth year rotations and were weren't going

to be in Blacksburg the entire time, so maybe we could find something a little

less expensive and not do a full year's lease. So I looked in the ads, and we

found one. Perfect location. Close to school. The rent rate and size and

everything seemed to be okay.

And I made a phone call to the agent. Which was.. we talked and I had references

and so forth, and she asked all the basic questions, and everything sounded okay

to her. I asked all the basic questions, and everything sounded okay to me. The

next step 00:22:00was arrange to see the place. And she said well I don't see any

problem at all. Come by, and lets, you know, we'll take you by there and have a

look at it, and we can sign the contract and go from there. I said great. I

don't see a problem at all unless they have a problem with me being black. And I

really just said that to say it , and she stopped, and she said well actually

the owner does have a problem. She doesn't want to rent it to anyone black. Well

, I said excuse me. And she says it not my preference at all, but the owner did

state that she does not want to rent it to a black person at all. And I was

like, well okay, I guess that is a problem.

And I hung up, and I was a little set back from it. And then I got really angry.

And then I got even angrier because the real estate was working for a prominent,

well-known real estate 00:23:00agency, and I thought it was completely unethical for her

to even have the property to try to rent out to someone. And I was a hairs

breathe away from pursuing that legally. I didn't want to stay there, I was just

going to pursue--

Kennelly: Right.

Davis: them choosing--

Kennelly: Principle.

Davis: Right. And I am a very principled person. I will go to the nth degree

sometime just to prove a point. But after talking about it a little bit more I

just decided, you know, it's going to be my fourth year in Vet school. Don't

want this hassling headache. I think I called the owner of that firm back and

made my comments to them, and I just left it.

Kennelly: Now what, around what year would that be then?

Davis:'86. Going into '87. From there, racism slapped me in the face when I was

living in Savannah, 00:24:00 Georgia.

Kennelly: What happened there?

Davis: My ex-husband was the superintendent of schools in Savannah, Savannah

public school system. And when we moved down there, he and his predecessor and

his boss at that time were involved in, very heavily involved in writing the

desegregation plan for their school system. When their predecessor left, he took

over as superintendent, and-- we were invited to attend a breakfast with one of

the executive, one of the vice presidents of Dixie Crystal Sugar, and I was

pregnant at that time, and it was a seven o-clock in the morning 00:25:00breakfast, so I

passed, which I don't usually pass a lot because Savannah had some excellent

restaurants, and this was one of them [laughing], you know.

And my ex-husband came back and told me about the breakfast and was a little

distressed. What he told was that the gentleman he had breakfast with told him,

Don't worry about trying to educate these blacks. Just teach them the difference

between motor oil and antifreeze. They don't have the capacity to learn." And

then patted my ex-husband on the arm and said, "Oh, but you're the exception, of

course." Dixie Crystal Sugar. Till this day I have not bought Dixie Crystal

Sugar. And I said you know there is a reason why I did not go to that breakfast

that morning. God intended me not to go. Because I didn't turn down food at a

good restaurant for any reason. Seven o'clock in the morning was not reason. So

my ex-husband was a lit bit more passive than I was, and I said, "You know, its

a real good thing because they would have been peeling me off of him from across

that table."

That just 00:26:00infuriated me, and all my life I thought racism existed in the back

woods. I thought--I knew it existed here. This was backwards for me. I never

thought it existed from a highly educated and supposedly intelligent person who

had made his way to one of the top executives at such a large facility. And it

was living in Savannah where I learned and was exposed to a lot a racism. Not

just with color, but with your socio-economic status as well. And I found that

to be very insightful.

Savannah was a wonderful experience. 00:27:00Love to go there. A beautiful place to

visit. There is a sign that says you're 20 miles away from 200 years ago. And we

tell people that you have no idea how true that statement is. You have no idea.

they did hold on to their culture, to their way of life almost too much. And

there some wonderful people there as well. I left some very good friends, one of

my best friends is still there. But it is extremely historical. And I told

people, I said, "You know, I would go visit. I might even buy a house and retire

there because its such a slow-paced community. But I'd never raise my family there.

I taught for a while, and I had white students who were old enough to be my

parents come in, whose economic status was very low. But they were at a point in

their life where they could finally go to college and wanted to go back and get

their degree. And we sat in class after one of my sessions, and I don't know how

we got on the subject, but I had a 00:28:00lot of older white women tell me that they

were never taught to go to college. The concept was never about going to

college, it was about learning a trade, for both blacks and low economic whites.

It wasn't about going to college. And even when we got there, the push wasn't to

go to college. The push was, if the push was to go to college at all, it was to

go to the college that was there. It was never a big drive in the public schools

to push their kids to go on to Yale or Clemson or Tech or Harvard. It was the

local community college. And the antifreeze 00:29:00courses. Teach them how to take

care of our cars and things. Yeah. So I learned that, I learned about it, or

faced with it at an older age.

I didn't have a lot of confrontation in the high school. As a matter of fact, I

always said I had it good in high school because I could go up to anybody that

was a friend of mine and hug them and kiss them, kiss a guy and not be concerned

with the girlfriend thinking that I was at all interested in him. The thought

was never there. It was friendships that I was more interested in. Not having a

sexual relationship with someone at that age. I guess my first real boyfriend

wasn't until my senior year in high school. I just had friends. I just had a

good time.

Kennelly: And what was your--is it like a suburban community?

Davis: Umm-hmm. It's.. yeah. It would be considered the suburbs of Richmond

Kennelly: So what about your family's social life? What did that revolve around?

Did you 00:30:00have-- Did your parents have black and white friends?

Davis: Yes.

Kennelly: Yeah.

Davis: Yes. We split our lives between Richmond and Petersburg. We were smack in

the middle between the two. Our church and all was in Petersburg and some of our

friends were there. We had left Richmond, but my parents were very active in a

lot of social clubs, sorority , fraternity. So we would be in Richmond

sometimes, or they would be in Richmond sometimes. They both worked in Richmond

at the Medical College of Virginia. They both commuted daily, back and forth. So

our lives, our family lives existed around what I think is a 40 mile radius

between Richmond and Petersburg

Kennelly: And so growing up there was never anything that felt like close? I

mean, like including God. Those experiences that you were mentioning, but before

that, anything that felt--

Davis: Racist?

Kennelly: Yeah.

Davis: No. No.

Kennelly: Now why did you-- Was your family 00:31:00active in NAACP or politically

active or anything like that?

Davis: I don't know that they were members. I don't know that they were

politically active, but they were very active. They expressed there concern in

the organizations that they were in, the sororities, fraternities, cancer

societies. I can't name all the organizations my parents were in. They were very

active. And still are very active, even though they're retired. I think they've

cut back some, but they're still very active in organizations. But not

necessarily politically out there. Not in that respect.

Kennelly: It seems like you too were very, very active.

Davis: Sure. Sure.

Kennelly: That was something that sort of stands out when you look at all the

different--when you were in 00:32:00college you engaged in many different kinds of organizations.

Davis: Tried to be.

Kennelly: But I kind of wondered--

Davis: Probably, probably because I flood downhill a little bit.

Kennelly: Maybe just how your family would approach life. I mean you'd do

service or be involved.

Davis: My parents were never stagnant. I can't say that I was ever stagnant.

There was a goal. There was a goal. Something that I believed in. Something that

I wanted to be a part of--then I did it. Then they did it. And I guessed that's

the way we were raised.

Kennelly: Why did you, when you came to Virginia Tech in 1979, why did you

choose to come here?

Davis: Truthfully, I wanted,-- There were two sides to the story that all kind

of came together, and I tell them both. One was parents nixed out-of-state

schools, all private schools or all girls schools, all schools within a 20

minute distance from the house [laughing]. 00:33:00They didn't want me to go anywhere

close, and did I say private? No private school either. So by the time you nixed

the United States of America [laughing] for the most part, you were left with

William and Mary, the University of Virginia, Madison, and Tech.

I did not like the University of Virginia at all. William and Mary was a

thought. I wanted to go--outside of what they wanted--I wanted to go to a large

school. It had to be a large school. I didn't want it to be a small private

school, or a small school. I wanted the challenge to feel like I was out on my

own, but yet still had a connection to home if I really needed it. I wanted to

know that by the time I graduated from 00:34:00college, that I could make it on my own

in the real world. I wanted my college experience to be that once I got my

college diploma, I was comfortable going out and dealing with the real world.

And so that took out Madison, because they were too small and left me with Tech.

And my parents brought me up to Tech to look around. And they were telling my

husband on the way over here yesterday, "Marva got to this point right here and

said, 'This is the school I'm coming to.'" Of course I don't remember that [mild

laughing]. So the decision was there.

Kennelly: Which point was it?

Davis: No. I turned. Oh, I forgot. What's the name of the main road over by the

Vet school? As you turn into Tech?

Kennelly: Oh, 460?

Davis: Right. Turning off of 460 to get into Tech, 00:35:00right at the point of the map

is of Tech, and I could see a couple of the tall buildings. I could see the

stadium from a distance a little bit. She says they were, we were right there

when I said, "This is the school." That was the deciding factor for me. There

was really no other school that I-- I had applied to Tech for early decision and

was accepted, so the rest was a moot point. I never put in another application

anywhere else. If I hadn't been accepted to Tech, I did have an application to

William and Mary, but I never sent it. And my parents, I remember thinking of

applying. My dad really wanted me here. But my dad was never one to say you're

going here because I want you to come here. I found out after the fact that he

wanted with every fiber in his soul for me to come to this school.

I wanted to be a veterinarian all my life, and they never took 00:36:00that thought away

from me. I always had another alternative should I not get accepted into vet

school, but I always wanted to be a veterinarian, and so my father knowing that,

and my parents both wanting me to do that, and they were never ones to push

outwardly. It was all done secretly. My dad wanted me to come here because the

vet school was here too, and the school was a good school.

So when I gave my thoughts about applying to William and Mary also, my dad made

a very negative comment to me, and it really hurt my feelings. I couldn't

understand why he would do that or say that. But my dad said to me at William

and Mary, "Your English is not very good." My writing. "And they require a lot

of writing. I don't think you're going to make it there." And boy, was I hurt

when he said that. He just walked off. I was a like God, I'm not a straight A

student, but I'm not a bad student either. But when I really didn't care about

doing something I did get a little sloppy [laughing]. So I didn't apply because

I thought my dad was may be right. I didn't care about William and Mary. It was

just another school that would fit my needs, my criteria, if I didn't get

accepted to Tech.

So when I applied for early decision and got 00:37:00accepted, it became a moot point.

And when I was accepted, my mom came back and said, "That's why he said it. He

didn't really want you to apply anywhere else. [laughing] He really wanted you

to be here, but you had to do it yourself, and that was his way going about

doing it. " I was like, "Okay. He could have come up with a little something

different, but it worked."

Kennelly: Now, where did your sisters go?

Davis: My oldest sister, they are all older than me. My oldest sister is about

13, 14 years older than me. Yeah, there was a big gap in our family. But my

oldest sister didn't go to college. She went to nursing school in New York. The

one next to her went to Virginia Commonwealth University, and the one between

her and myself did not go to college. She was a straight A student in high

school, but just decided that she didn't want to go to college and never did.

And then my youngest sister 00:38:00came to Tech for a couple of years and then

transferred and graduated from Norfolk State.

Kennelly: What was the racial climate at Virginia Tech when you were here?

Davis: There was an effort in--Calvin Jamison and Glen Valentine were

instrumental in trying to make blacks students feel at home and very welcomed

here. As a matter of fact, my first day here when I met Calvin at orientation,

he had actually taken the time to study the faces of every student that had been

accepted. So that when I walked into Squires, he walked up to me and said, "Hi,

Marva. How are you? I'm so glad you made it here."

I was blown away. I was also going in my 00:39:00mind, with a few explicatives, who are

you? Why do you know who I am? What's going on here? [laughing] But it was very

heart warming that he had taken the time to get to know who I was, and everyone

else before we got here to make us feel very at home. I never again, I played a

lot of it. If there was racism, I never really felt it by choice.

You had black organizations. I was a member of some of those. You had campus

organizations. I joined some of those. There were white sororities. There were

black sororities, by choice. But even in my 00:40:00sorority, it is not defined as a

black sorority, but all that were there were black. If you go to some other

areas, I have white sorors in my sorority as well. But here there was never

a thought of me joining a white sorority. But then I had sorority that I grew up

with. I had a heritage that I grew up with, that I was interested in continuing.

I had white friends. I lived in the dorms all four years. There were, there were

always times when you knew people weren't really interested in getting to know

you. They weren't interested in being your friend or socializing with you.

People with the, you know, my floor. I never cared about that. You could say

that some of it could have been racial. Some of it could have been you're just

not my type. I never bothered to sit down and figure out which was which. If you

don't want to get to know me, then I don't want to get to know you. That was fine.

I never 00:41:00had, I never felt like I had any racial conflicts or confrontations

while I was here. What happened and things that I heard about were more related

to off campus than on campus. Even my experience with Naesha, that was off

campus, not things that were on campus. We were definitely the minority here.

But then I equated that with this is what the real world is about. If I had gone

to an all black college and stepped out into the world, the world was not all

black. I didn't feel like I had a problem integrating myself into different

activities and events 00:42:00here because I did it in high school, I did it in junior

high school. I was already the minority learning to adapt and become a part of,

and it was just a continuation when I got here. If you didn't want to get to

know me, I could blow that off. It was not a big deal.

Again, I was not raised-- I knew what racism was about, I knew that it existed.

I didn't know where it existed because I was never that close to it. And if I

was that close to it, I could keep on going. I could step over it, and it wasn't

an issue. So if someone said or did something to me that was meant to be a

racial connotation or racial incident they were very disappointed because I

could keep on going. And then they were left to sit back and figure out, did she

know what I meant or did it really just not bother her? And they'll never have

that answer. [laughing]. So you know.

Kennelly: Was your, were your roommates white or black?

Davis: My roommates were white.

Kennelly: 00:43:00And that was just fine?

Davis: I didn't care. Actually one of my roommates was one of my brides maids in

my first wedding. As I, my senior year--and we got along beautifully. Actually

we lived next door to each other, and we were supposed to become roommates, and

then she decided to live off campus. I had a black roommate my junior year, and

that was--unless somebody over there just finagled it that way. I didn't know

anything about it. That's just the way it worked out. My other two roommates

were white. And there were differences there.

I had another white roommate my senior year. She was a freshman, and we got

along beautifully, beautifully. She was learning a lot, 00:44:00and her parents were

kind of looking to me to kind of keep her to not be such a wild child in their

definition. To get school work done. Set the priorities, and then she could go

play and party. We got along very nicely.

My first two years, my roommates and I didn't get along. Very different

personalities. I can't say that it was racial at all. In one instance, I was a

spoiled child. Everybody is to some degree. And those areas conflicted being in

such a small defined space. There was no real hatred or anything like that, you

know. We did what we had to do to get along, and then we moved on.

There was one year where I didn't have a roommate for almost a whole semester

because the girl quit or transferred that was originally assigned to me, and no

one was assigned to me for the second semester. And the third semester, I had a

mature 00:45:00young lady that was in the room. But again our lives were very different.

Our social activities were very different. Our desires, our likes were very

different. So we did okay in the room, and then we went our separate ways. We

didn't socialize at all.

And then my third year, my junior year, I had a black girl as my roommate. She

and I got along, but again, she had a different group that she would hang around

with, more by age then anything else. She was a freshman, and I was a junior. We

attended some things together. We did do some things together. Attended some

functions together. But no one that I was really close to until my senior year.

She and I, she and I shared a room next door. She and I were supposed to be

roommates my senior year. My parents would never let me live off campus as long

as I won the lottery, and so I wound up on campus in the same dorm all four years.

Kennelly: They wanted you on campus just for the--

Davis: 00:46:00 Cheaper.

Kennelly: Cheaper. Yeah, I guess it would be cheaper.

Davis: Cheaper then is what they were saying. I was like, "But, but, but, if you

look at it like this, and I'm working and you know, everywhere I try to look at

is--" "No you stay on campus." Your tuition, room, and board were all paid for.

You didn't have to worry about it once those fees were paid. They didn't want to

have to deal with the rent and then groceries. I had a car here, but still

transportation back and forth. They didn't want to have that headache. I lived

on campus all four years, and then when I was in vet school, I lived off campus.

Kennelly: Did you have scholarships here?

Davis: Yes. My first two years I had--if I recall correctly--I really left that

to my parents. If I recall correctly, I had a partial scholarship from Tech the

first year. But I also had two scholarships from the Council of Higher

Education, partial also.

Kennelly: Do you know if any of the scholarships had to do with the Rockefeller Foundation?

Davis: 00:47:00No. I don't know.

Kennelly: You don't know. That's just, we have the research here. It's sort of interesting.

Davis: No. I don't know. No.

Kennelly: You were involved with the Black Student Alliance when you were at Tech.

Davis: Yes.

Kennelly: Were there-- What were the concerns of this group at that time, if you

happen to remember?

Davis: Becoming more involved in campus life, campus activities, having a voice

and some of the decisions that were made, I think was the general desire of the

group, as well finding an opportunity for the black students to come together

socially, politically, educationally, and be able to succeed. Those, those to

me--I didn't make it to every Black Student Alliance meeting that existed, but

those to me were the, some of the basic goals that the organization was trying

to 00:48:00 accomplish.

Kennelly: Wasn't there something, I think it was a Black-- You were on the Commission--

Davis: Commission of Student Affairs.

Kennelly: Yeah, and--,

Davis: Budget Committee.

Kennelly: Right. Now as Commission of--Oh, it was the Black Organizations

Council was added to the Commission of Student Affairs when you were a part of

it. I wondered if that was considered a major--

Davis: Accomplishment?

Kennelly: Accomplishment? Step?

Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Sure. To become involved. Right.

Kennelly: -- A voice in the..

Davis: How the moneys were distributed. Right. Right.

Kennelly: When you were a student, did the black students tend to sit together

in the cafeteria or in the student union or did they--? Was it--?

Davis: When there was 00:49:00segregation, there was segregation by choice. More

because,-- Yes and no. Did it always happen? No. But you have to, you have to

also look at a lot of the black students that came from the same area. They knew

each other, and that was their means of holding on to something in coming to

this big university and not knowing much of anybody.

So yes, you flocked in directions that you knew, and hopefully you would spread

your wings and see what else was out there. So yes, we would do things together

as a group, and some of us would sit together at lunch or at dinner in the

cafeteria, or some of us would meet over at Squires for meetings or to

socialize. You did not, you did not and should not lose contact with who you are

and your heritage and your friends that you brought here, but you hopefully also

learn more about what the campus is about, and you spread your wings and you get

involved in a little bit of everything. So yeah, there wasn't designated area

where this is where black people sit and eat, no.

Kennelly: And sometimes you might be sitting with white friends?

Davis: Sure. It was who was there at the 00:50:00time. Nobody went to the cafeteria for

two hours to sit and eat. It was when you had the time, how your schedule would

fit in. If everyone's schedule was the same, you'd all leave the dorm together

and go over and eat. If not, you'd meet over there, you'd go in by yourself, see

someone you know, haven't talked to in a while. You'd sit down with them, or

someone else in your class that you needed to talk to. If you hadn't seen a

white person, sit down and talk with them.

Kennelly: So it wasn't like uncomfortable or..

Davis: Not for me.

Kennelly: Yeah.

Davis: And I don't think to a lot of other blacks. Umm, I think, I know I had

some, some black friends that were here that had a challenging time because they

grew up in an all black school. AlI their friends were black. If the, you know,

had I stayed in Richmond, I would have gone to an all black school with maybe

one or two white students in the class. And then you come to this university

where you 00:51:00were 600 out of 20,000. That's a lot to.. its a culture shock to some

degree. And so you will cling to what you know, and you will hopefully have the

confidence to be able to do what you need to do to learn what else is out there.

I did that in junior high school and high school. And started, I didn't--we had

little cliques. We had little black cliques in high school. All the black

students would meet in the center of the crosswalk in the hallway and chit chat

for that five minutes and go our separate ways. You didn't see a lot of white

students doing that. White students were walking in the halls, or they'd be

standing by, you know, a room or something, but right there in the center of

that T, in-between classes, a lot of black students would stop and stand and

talk, even though we were the minority there, and then we'd break up and go

their separate ways. I did it sometimes. But that wasn't my thing.

Kennelly: You were--you were chosen to be homecoming queen at Tech and, when you

were here, and that would have been your senior 00:52:00 year?

Davis: Right.

Kennelly: Seems like, the way people remember it, it just seems like, well I'd

like for you to just talk about how that came about, and then what impact that

had on the community here.

Davis: Mmm. (pause) I worked at Squires. I worked two jobs while I was here on

campus. Not qualifying for, what is it? Student aid? Student..

Kennelly: Yeah, I think that's work study.

Davis: Work study. Right. Not qualifying for work study. So, my per hour was

little of nothing, but it was better than nothing at all. So the more I worked,

the more I made. So I worked a lot between the campus housing, working in mail

room, and working over at 00:53:00Squires a lot.

Kennelly: What were you doing at Squires?

Davis: Everything, anything. I was working the front desk, or working the art

gallery, or ushering for the movies, things like that. I, between that and the

few organizations that I was in, I had a full schedule.

The Black Student Alliance had a meeting. They had asked me my junior year if I

would consider running. I just said, you know, thanks, I appreciate it, that's

really complimentary, but I'd really rather not. Although I'm an out-going

person, I don't like being in the limelight a lot. I don't like the butterflies

that you have to go through. You know. So I didn't mind doing things, but I

liked to do things from behind the scenes, and you can stand out there and take

all the accolades you want, and I will accomplish what I need to accomplish

behind you.

So when they asked me to run my junior year, I just very politely declined, and

that was the end of that. I didn't think that they would ask me again because I

had declined the first time. And then my senior year, I was in Squires working

the night that they had a meeting. And one of the guys came down and asked 00:54:00 me

if, if they nominated me, would I run. And I looked at him and said, "It doesn't

have anything to do with the organization it's just--," and he said, "Would you

please, please." I was like, "Okay. If there's no one else that really wants to

do it, because I will support anyone else who wants to do it, I'll, I'll run.

Okay. And in my mind I'm going, I really don't want to do this. Didn't have

nothing to do with the commun--, the club, its just that my nerves. Would my

nerves be able to take what we had to do for that?

So they came back down and two--when I said okay I'll do it, I said there is

going to be someone else who really wants to do it, and it was time I know.

There was someone else who wanted to do it last time. So this is not going to 00:55:00 be

an issue. And they'll do it with someone who is not going to be as nervous as I

would be, and they'll come back down and tell me that was it. I said great. So

they came back down and said, "You won." I'm like ohhh. [Laughing]. Ohhh my God. [Laughing]

And then we had to go through the pictures, taking the pictures to put out, and

I was really, you know, I had taken modeling classes and stuff in junior high

school. I did it, I guess behind my sister and my other one older than me

barber's or modeling school and what not. So I learned how to be feminine,

proper, and put my make up on, and how to model and when you walk up and down a

runway and what not.

And I'd always thought about doing that. That's every girl's dream to do that

for a little bit on the side. I had competed in a couple of pageants, the Miss

Junior Miss pageant. I got talked into doing it from a modeling instructor, and

my parents and I knew what those nerves were all about. I just didn't like that

concept, butterflies in my stomach. But 00:56:00so we did the pictures here, and I

remember, I mean my pictures were very casual. I didn't think that I was very

photogenic at all.

Calvin looked at the pictures, and a couple of other people looked at the

pictures, and they picked out the ones they said they looked great, they all

looked great. They posted them all around the school. I remember walking past

the pictures and saying, "Ugh. Well somebody won't have to worry about me

because these are really yuck." [Laughing] the pictures. And everyone else was

saying that they were really nice, but I just didn't think that I was very

photogenic. I thought I had a big nose in the picture. I didn't think I was

glamorous looking at all. Some of the other girls, I mean they really went out

of their way with their pictures and had very glamorous looks, and I didn't

think I had any of that, and I just didn't think it was going to really be an

issue for me, for that, looking at,--

Kennelly: The students are voting?

Davis: Well, there was an interview, and there were votes. It was-- At that time

it, if I recall correctly, 50 percent of decision was based on your 00:57:00 interview.

And your interview was a panel of faculty, I think a couple of students were

there, and employees here. And then the other 50 percent came from student votes.

You were to advertise yourself quote, unquote. The girls would be escorted

around the cafeteria. That's the other reason why I really didn't want to do it.

I really hated when they escorted girls around the cafeteria. They come up to

your table and say, "Hi, this is Mary Sue. She's our candidate for homecoming

queen. Please vote for her." And then move on to the next table. You know.

[Laughter]. And I remember, I used to look at those girls and say, duh. I

couldn't do that. And they used to also sit there and eat and say, "I would

really rather you not disturb me [laughing] while I'm eating. We have 15, 20

minutes before I have to get up and go." But I was never rude. Just kept on going.

So I wasn't real thrilled with the pictures, and then the day came when we had

to go into the cafeteria. Oh, did I dread that. All I could think about was all

the thoughts that I had those years when other girls were coming through. So the

two gentleman that escorted me to the first couple of tables introduced me as

their homecoming queen candidate, and we went from one table to the next. And by

the time we got to about the third or the fourth table I was really feeling bad.

I was really, I mean mentally, I was really just ugh, not liking that at all. 00:58:00And as I was going to each table, I was trying to assess what it was that I had

a problem with. The problem was that I wasn't talking. [pause]

I felt like some little Barbie doll being escorted from one table to the next

and having these guys introduce me and I'm not talking, and that's what bothered

me. It took me that long to figure it out, but that's what bothered me about

every, all those other years and the girls just coming to the table. I needed to

do more than just try to look pretty. I just, I didn't like that.

So as we went to the next table. I stopped and said, "Guys, we're going to do

this a little different. I'll talk. You just escort me. " And that's what we

did. And I went around the tables and I introduced myself and who I was, and

told them a little bit about myself, and I just kept talking and talking as I

went from table to table to table to table, you know. By the end of the visit, I

was hoarse.

But boy, I felt, you know, I still didn't really like the concept of, of

advertising or politicking in the cafeteria for anything. But that was our

mechanism at the time, so 00:59:00that's what we did. And I went through and talked, and

after that first go around it was nothing. Felt very comfortable doing it then.

Next time we had to go up there--not an issue. The guys just escorted me, and I

introduced myself. And I was meeting and greeting people. And that was me. You know.

And it was funny. We all had to have our group pictures taken by the

photographer. Had one session here in Squires. And we were all, several of us

were in the bathroom freshening up and everything before the picture. And this

very attractive young white girl came up to me who was being represented by one

of the groups and asked me if I was Marva. I said yes. And she said, "I just

wanted to come and tell you that I, I came behind 01:00:00you in the cafeteria, being

introduced to the tables, and I just wanted to tell you that a lot of people

were really impressed with you stopping and talking with them, that one table

suggested that I come and introduce myself to you and find out what it was that

you were doing that I needed to do to make myself--"

And I was [sigh] floored, floored. Floored for two reasons. One that it really

made that big of a difference to people, and two, that she had enough in her to

come to me and say that.

I told her, I said, "Well I'm really impressed with you that you would come and

share that with me, and I really appreciate that." But I said, "You know what,

the only thing I did was talk and have people get a chance to get to know who I

was. So if they decided to vote for me they would know who they were voting for,

not just what they voting for."

And then we had that--we had that, and on my interview. My interview was

disastrous in the beginning. I went out and bought two dresses for the 01:01:00interview. One was for the interview, and one was for-- I can't remember what

the other dress was for. But they were each for specific reasons during this

event. So I'm getting myself dressed. Make up, prim-proper, everything, and I go

to press my dress. Got my iron turned on everything, and it was uhh, oh, a very

shear outer layer, and I put the iron down, and it melted my dress.

Kennelly: Ohhh.

Davis: I was horrified. Horrified. Horrified. I had to be over at my interview

in 30 minutes. What am I going to do? I went through everything. I put that

dress on and said umm. And said okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Where is,

where is the interview going to be? Where are they going to be sitting? Where if

I walk in the door, and they're sitting facing the door, I can 01:02:00walk straight in,

sit at, because the burn was in the back. The hole was in the back of the dress.

I could walk in. I could sit down. I could get up and I could back myself out

[laughing] very nicely and they'd never notice it. But if they're on the side,

I'll have to walk in and just kind of glaze on in this way, and then no one will

see the hole in the back of my dress.

Because that was the interview dress. That was suppose to make the impression.

The other dress was just an okay dress for something else we had to do. I was in

tears and was like, this is it. This is it. There is a reason why this happened,

and it was because there was no way I was ever going to win, okay. So I was left

with wearing this other new dress which was a velour, just a basic velour long

sleeve, scoop neck, straight dress. That was it. I said I've blown it. This is

it. Okay. Whatever now. You know. It just didn't matter because my first

impression was shot [laughing] as far as I was concerned.

So I got there and said, What are you going to do now? Go in and answer the

questions to the best of your ability. You've already blown it with the dress,

so have a good 01:03:00time. It was all I could do.

So I walked in, and Calvin Jamison was on the committee, and he was the only

face. There was another face that I recognized that I can't remember who it was

though. And I was like oh, CJ is here. Good. This is a good one. What are you

going to do to embarrass me? I could see.. he would joke, we would joke a lot. I

never really thought he would embarrass me, but I thought, what would he do to

make me snicker, or something? And he really, he wasn't one to ask most of the questions.

There were other people asking questions, and fortunately, although I don't

really remember all the questions that were asked, I do remember that they were

all about things that I felt strongly about. That I had an opinion about. Not,

oh well I never thought about that. And I was never a deep thinker as a person. 01:04:00I've always tried to keep my eyes open and see what was there, but never

considered myself a deep thinker. And I answered all the questions, and we had a

good time, and things just flowed. And that was it. It was an interview. It

wasn't so much an interview as a let me get to know you. And then a few what is

your opinion about questions.

And I know who I am. I know what I want. I know where I want it to go. I had

strong desires and dreams, and I could relay that, and that was it. So I never

made a whole lot of any of this because I'd never thought I'd win. It was I'm

going to be the best representative I can be for the organization that asked me

to do it and voted on me and that was it. At best I might make it to the court,

but never expected anything past that. And if I didn't make it to the court it

wasn't going to be any big surprise. So when I made it that far, and my parents

came up for the football game--

Kennelly:Did they narrow it down to the people who were going to be in the--

Davis:Yeah there were a lot , there was a larger 01:05:00group, and then it was narrowed

down. And I--

Kennelly: For the football game.

Davis: Yeah, for the football game. And others, if I recall correctly, there had

been another black candidate that had made it to the smaller few. I think that

was since I had been there, or right before I got there. One or the other. So

that's what I said. I might, might make it that far, but that would be it. So I

made it that far and got out on the football field, and they kind of told us the

way things were going to go, and I was happy. Just happy to be there. Just happy

to be the representative. Just having a good time, and that was it.

You know, my parents came up for the weekend. Some other people were there, but

their kids were there. Excuse me, that I grew up with. We all walked out on the

football field. I don't if this-- I don't know if that picture is in here.

[pause, sound of papers ruffling]. 01:06:00No. There was another couple standing to our

left, and I knew the guy who was escorting her because he was in Squires a lot.

In a fraternity, in Squires doing things a lot.

And for some reason I had said, I had looked at all the girls and said, hmm,

okay, who's going to win? This one's going to win right here. I'm sure she's

going to win. So we were out there on the football field, and I had gone into

another world. I mean this was just, we were just,.. to me at a point of,

virtually this is the way things were going to go. They'll name the homecoming

queen, she'll wave, and then we'll all go back to our seats, we'll congratulate

her and then we'll all go back to our seats.

And then so, Billy and I are just standing there, and I remember Dr. 01:07:00 Lavery

coming down. And then, from then I just zoned out. I was doing something else. I

was prepared to congratulate, you know, after everyone else congratulated, and

then walk off and that was it. You know when you grow up your parents teach you

never to frown when you don't win. You always smile and have a happy walk. I

never planned on winning. I never thought in my wildest dreams it would ever

happen. So it wasn't an issue. I was happy for whomever was going to win. I was

happy that as the Black Student Alliance's representative that I had made it

this far, and was content. So I had zoned out. I don't know where I was. I don't

know what I was thinking about. But I remember they said, and the homecoming

queen is-- And I was still zoned out because I knew I was going to hear another

name. I just didn't even think about it.

And then it was like flashback. Everything happened all at once [snapping her

fingers]. I saw Dr. Lavery coming to me. Billy literally nudged me [Interviewer

laughing]. And it was his nudge that brought me back. And then I 01:08:00 remember

hearing Marva Felder on the-- I was like, and that's the pictures where my mouth

was standing wide open. It's because, I really didn't [laughing], I really

didn't expect it. And then Dr. Lavery comes over to give me a hug, and then the

queen before came over to give me my crown. And that's when I'm like, oh my God.

Oh my God. It was me. It's (laughing) really me. You know. And I didn't know

what to do with myself. I was so incredibly overwhelmed. I did not like to cry

in front of people, but the tears were kind of there. I was beside myself. I had

no clue. My parents knew. Someone had told my parents. And that's why they were

sitting down where they were.

Kennelly: What they knew..

Davis: Somebody, yeah. I think they told.. someone told, uhh, they didn't know

for sure, someone told them that it was a very good possibility. And I don't

know who it was. I didn't know anything about that until after the fact. 01:09:00But it

is was oh, I was-- I can't tell you. I mean I was elated. I was, I never been

more shocked in my life over anything. I was just, I was really--I didn't think

Tech was ready for a black Miss Virginia Tech, or homecoming queen. I never

thought it was going to happen. And when it did-- If someone had interviewed me

right then and there, I would have been uhh, uhh, uhh, uhh, for the first time

in my life, not a whole lot to say because that's not one that I had thought

about or had ever been planned for. You asked me things that happened after

homecoming queen. Yeah, yeah, now that you mention it. There were things that

told me that Tech wasn't really ready.

Kennelly: That they weren't really ready?

Davis: Not all of 01:10:00Tech. But that year, whereas in years past, the homecoming

queen was asked to participate in a few events. I was never called and asked to participate.

Kennelly: Never called?

Davis: No. and in retrospect, you know, in that respect, I considered it because

I was the black homecoming queen.

Kennelly: Like what kind?

Davis: Again, most of them were off campus or, or community things that the

homecoming queen might have been invited to participate in, and I wasn't

invited. I really didn't function much on campus, or be invited to do much. But

then the homecoming queen, I don't recall in years past, being invited to do--

As far as on campus, that was pretty much the same. But things that they 01:11:00 were

invited to do off campus. And I recall, I recall a couple. I just can't tell you

what they were right now. It didn't hurt my feelings. It just stood out that,

you know.

Kennelly: That it was happening, that it happened before. You probably would

have heard, so and so, she had to do this. I mean, I'm supposed to be interested

in what's going to be required, and you didn't call me to do that.

Davis: Right. That's exactly right. But then again, I didn't let it bother me,

and I just went on. When I was asked to do something as homecoming queen, I did

it. And then I, when it was time to hand the crown over the next year, I was

there to participate in that. And then we went on.

Kennelly: Well it seems-- What two things-- How was it important to the black

community beyond you?

Davis: I think it helped to have the black students stand out a little bit 01:12:00 more.

I think it helped them to accomplish the goal of becoming more involved in the

community. To become more involved. To become more noticed on campus as a

functioning entity, as a functioning group.

I think by sitting on the student council as well. But it wasn't just me. There

was D.K. Brockett who was class president. Any African-American person that

became involved in non-African-American events was an effort to help us as a

group stand out and say, hey, we are a part of this. We want input and say. Not

just as an organization, as every organization, but as we spread our wings too,

there were other organizations. When we were looked upon, 01:13:00we stood out more

because we were the minority. So when people like D.K. stood out because he was

a minority who held a office, or because I became homecoming queen and gave us a

group a chance to stand out a little bit more.

Kennelly: I wondered about-- I'm not sure exactly how to ask the question, but I

was kind of before the interview, I was thinking when the slogan like 'black was

beautiful' got started. I just wondered about the concept of beauty. If it was

something that you thought about? You sort of touched on it a little bit when

you were talking about your experience in Richmond, but I was wondering about

the concept of beauty, being beautiful, is something when you were growing up,

or if it.. you have ideas or thoughts about beauty--

Davis: I never thought, I think black is beautiful is a concept that came about

because the previous years of racism and the efforts of our families to teach

our children that there's nothing wrong with our color. And black then is how

you define it. African-American is how we define it in this generation. My

grandmother grew up with Negro, and it was acceptable then. But it was 01:14:00 through

the generations teaching our children that there's nothing wrong with our color.

There's nothing wrong with black, with being black, with our skin being brown.

Someone once, I can't remember where that came from, but if you look up the

definition of black, they talk about darkness. The negative side. It all has

negative connotations to it whereas if you look up white, there is purity and so

forth. And the more positive connotations with that. And I believe, I'm not a,

I'm not well versed in the definitions, but my concept black is beautiful comes

from us being taught that there is nothing wrong with our color. The rest comes

beauty, comes from within. You can 01:15:00be as beautiful outside as you want to be,

but if you have a negative personality, the beauty will diminish.

Kennelly: What, what about, you know you were talking a little bit earlier about

in a way sometimes it was difficult meaning like when you were in the Richmond

school because,..

Davis: It was difficult. The Richmond school.. Again I was in a predominantly

black school, okay. And I don't think that has anything to do with black, I just

think that has to do with individuals and their concepts of themselves.

If you were the most beautiful white person in your school, and you had guys

flocking around you, you're going to have other white girls not like you because

you think you're beautiful. It's not that you think your beautiful, it's that

the guys they want to be with think you're beautiful. And that's what I had to

deal with 01:16:00in the Richmond city schools.

I never, I never considered myself ugly. I never considered myself beautiful.

There were people that looked much better than me, and there were people that I

thought looked worse than me. You know, I never, I, I like myself. There are

things that I don't like about myself that I'd like to improve upon, that I've

spent time trying to improve upon. I haven't had make overs yet. I haven't had

cosmetic surgery yet, but, you know, everybody has a little bit of attitude in

themselves. But the experiences that I've referred to are based on lack of

self-esteem of the other black girls that I couldn't be friends with a guy. I

couldn't just be friends. I had to be wanted by that guy because I was a pretty

little rich girl with long hair. But that wasn't, it wasn't how 01:17:00I perceived

myself, it was how everyone else perceived me. And that had everything to do

with how they felt about themselves.

Kennelly: Excuse me. I have to kind of go through what I have here.

Davis: No problem.

Kennelly: I think when you were a candidate, from what the yearbook says, you

were the Black Student Alliance and the NAACP, kind of a joint candidate.

Davis: Yes.

Kennelly: And you were a member of the NAACP. And I wondered, when I looked in

the Bugle, they said that what they were trying to do at that point was to make

the university a better place, to promote harmony among all students.

Davis: Yes.

Kennelly: And I wondered if there was, how that they were trying to do this at

that time if you remember at all? Anything special?

Davis: I don't 01:18:00think, no, I don't remember any special thing that they tried to

do. I was a member of both organizations. My concept and everybody's is a little

bit different. But I think the concept is, if you put this on a global scale, I

don't think it's any different, it's teaching each other how to get along. There

are white people out there that don't know black people, that never lived around

or with or socialize, or had any, any interaction at all with black people. And

there are some black people who grew up in a black environment and had very

little, if anything to do with white people. And those people have to learn how

to coexist and learn how to develop there own opinions about each other. And let

go of things that weren't really true, but that they were taught to 01:19:00believe. And

that's part of the, how to coexist.

I, I never felt like there were racial extremes here on campus. But there were

some things, there are always things that you can change and improve so that

things become more integrated. When you only have 600 to 800 black students here

out of 20,000, there's going to be some segregation because you can't put all

600 people into the 20,000 and desegregate it and have all the blacks do what

they want to do. You follow what I'm saying? So I think, were the effort to

coexist when you can and get to know more of each other and what each other's

races are, and cultures are all about. That's the way I look at it.

I have never been, I have political opinions about 01:20:00things, but I've, I, in

joining the NAACP, it was not to be political, it was to be supportive of a lot

of their activities, but not to get into the politics of racism and so forth.

Like is done on a global environment. We have white members in the NAACP as

well, but its to teach each other, what were about, and how we can exist

together. And if you put the color aside, look at me for who I am, and you'll

see that I'm no different from you. My cultures are a little bit 01:21:00different. Your

cultures a little bit different. The Asian's cultures a little bit different.

But look at what you can learn if you put all your heads together, and, and be

better at what it is you want to do.

Kennelly: Do you think the fact that your father was in the military, do you

think that gave you more of a, sort of a more ___________________ approach to life?

Davis: No because I was very young when I was in the military. I think it is the

way my parents raised us. Umm, I have two wi.., well two, well, I had. I have

umm, I had two white brother in-laws. My parents taught us to look at people for

who they are, not the color of there skin, and then judge them, but judge them

by who they are. And that's what we've always done. I don't always seek color.

Umm, I think my opinion is a little bit different right now, having have raised

a child, but they didn't care who we married, as long as-- 01:22:00they didn't care

based on color who we married. Or ethnic background, or religious background.

None of that mattered to them. It was look at who the person is. And if you can

live with that person the rest of your life, then be with that person the rest

of your life.

Kennelly: Now, you said that your opinion is different now that you've raised a child?

Davis: Umm, yes and no. I mean I would not be upset if my daughter married

someone white or if she had a white boyfriend, or wanted to. Umm, I couldn't

have a relationship with a white man. I, I could but would pass it aside, but

only because I feel like its a little bit harder. I've got so much to do right

now to raise my child, that I don't, I didn't want to have the issues of race

enter into her being raised. Her father is black.

Kennelly: How 01:23:00old is she?

Davis: She's nine.

Kennelly: Nine.

Davis: She's Nine. Umm, although, if I found someone I was really in love with,

I couldn't let that be an issue in the end. I have niece's that are half black

and half white. And those questions will come up and have come up with my

daughter to this point, and I've dealt with them. When I said that now and when

I said it myself before, it was because life has been a challenge and I don't

look for another challenge. I want a little peace and tranquillity and not have

to deal with anymore roughness. But if I met, I don't, I'm not opposed to it. If

I really met someone and he meant that much to me, it wouldn't be an issue. I

never thought of dating a white guy until I got here. The thought never entered

my mind, which is maybe why, I don't know, maybe why we got along in high

school. I mean I could go up and hug someone and kiss a guy on the cheek and the

thought was never 01:24:00there. I had never had a thought of really having a boyfriend.

I was having too much fun just with friends. You know? But because the thought

was never there, his girlfriend standing next to you never took issue with it.

Had I done that in the Richmond public schools, okay. (Laughing by interviewer)

It would have been, disastrous is putting it nicely (laughing by both).

Kennelly: Big trouble?

Davis: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Whole lot of trouble. So uhh..

Kennelly: So did you ever date any white guys?

Davis: Sure. I sure did. Umm, while I was in college here. Umm, not here. Well I

did date, I saw a couple of guys a couple of times. Umm, but the relationship

that I had, the relationships that I actually had were off campus. Out of state,

actually (laughing). But I, when I lived on campus, living in the dorm, that's,

that's your whole 01:25:00life, right there. You know, that's your whole house right

there. And I really didn't like bringing guys up to my room because then I had

no privacy, I had no private area. You know, when you have your house, you can

bring them into the family room, the kitchen, and bedrooms and everything are

off limits until you decide otherwise. You bring a guy into your dorm room,

there's your bedroom, your kitchen, your living, you know. There's everything

right there. I didn't like that. I also didn't like everybody being in my

business. When I want my privacy, I want my privacy and I'll let you know when I

want things to become public. The few occasions, and I mean very few where I

dated someone on campus, everybody in the world knew. And then I just said, you

know, we're just going to be really good friends and go out. I don't want a

relationship when everybody knows what we're doing, when we're doing it, where

we're doing it and why we're doing it. I, I, 01:26:00I'm in that respect, a very private

person. And it was hard to have privacy on campus. If it wasn't the, if it

wasn't the girls in the dorm on my floor, then it was, it would be with, umm,

the friends or the people that knew me. If we were walking together, well there

goes that rumor.

Kennelly: You were really in the public eye. It's like becoming..

Davis: Yeah.

Kennelly: A princess or something of the, of the school. Because we've had some

researchers find, of course its further back in time, but still to find the

first black women students in the school we had to do research. But everybody

knew your name. (laughing by interviewee). It was for a reason.

Davis: Right.

Kennelly: But still it was, you know, interesting. Even that was the name. You

know everyone knew that name.

Davis: It was out there. (laughing).

Kennelly: Well, so you're like a celebrity on, on campus, I suppose. That people

would really be aware--

Davis: Yeah, I mean, I, I, more, more people knew me than 01:27:00I knew them. I knew

more faces than I knew names. And that was the other, I guess that was a part of

it too. Umm, because more people knew me than I knew them, I could never go

anywhere, umm, with someone or hold hands, or be in a relationship with someone,

without it getting back to me two or three days later, ohh so and so saw you

with da-da-da. You know. And I just, I never like that. So what relationships I

had were always with people somewhere else.

Kennelly: When you were here, did you feel umm, it sounded like, when you

mentioned Calvin Jamison came and spoke with you, was there mentoring with your

professors? Did you have--

Davis: Ohh, you better believe it. Umm, two in particular.

Uhh, umm. Calvin was one. Calvin kept me here. I almost quit school. Umm, my

uhh, sophomore year here.

Kennelly: You almost quit school?

Davis: Umm-hmm. I almost quit. Umm, Calvin, umm, talked me into staying. Umm, 01:28:00and Overton Johnson, Overton Johnson was my heart here. And when he died (long

pause), (soft tone) he was like my dad. Do you have a tissue?

Kennelly: Sorry.

Davis: I don't talk about him much. I do-- I don't talk about him much. Umm,

coming up here I was very spoiled and it was my first time away from home, and

uhh, he took me under his arms, you know, anything I wanted, anything I needed,

umm, he was always, do your, do your work first. He was a dad. Do what your 01:29:00supposed to do, and umm.. When I got here, I was a, (mild laugh). It was a

culture shock a little bit too. When I got here to register, they put me in the

college of Agriculture. Well I came up here planning to go to vet school and I

don't know who, I keep blaming my parents for it, but someone told me that the

Animal Science was dealing with you know, the rabbits, rodents, hamsters, guinea

pigs, cats, dogs, the whole nine yards. Umm, so when I got up here, we're

sitting in the room and we're signing up for these classes and these guys are

coming in talking about what we're going to be doing our first year. Our first

class. And all I'm hearing about were horses and pigs and cows. And I'm sitting

in the front row, my parents are back behind and I am like, I am in the wrong

department. We walked in the wrong room. I can not pull this out. Something's

wrong here (laughing). So I was the last one to turn in my sheet. And I said,

you 01:30:00know, I think I accidentally walked into the wrong room, because, I'm

supposed to be in the room where the animals, not farm animals, but animals I'm

supposed to be working with.

Kennelly: This is vet school then?

Davis: No, this is here. My first year..

Kennelly: First year.

Davis: My first year here. And umm, the guy comes and sits down next to me and

talks me and tells me actually I was in the right room, just somebody gave me

the wrong information. And I umm, Overton was in the agriculture department, and

so they talked me into just going ahead and giving it a shot the first quarter

and if I don't like it, you know, I can leave. So starting out in the department

of Agriculture, and I would be in Overton's office about once every week or once

every two weeks or he'd call me on the phone and make sure everything was okay.

And I walked in and told Overton one day, I said I, I don't, I can't stay in

here. This is not me. I'm a city girl. I knew nothing about cows, accept the

ones in the state 01:31:00farm, at the state fair, that you go and pet, you know. My

first class in animal science some girls came back across the hall and my mother

remembers this and laughs till this day. They came back from the animal lab

course with there high boots on, and the all-in-one jumpers and stuff. I said

what you all do? And they said we made halters? I said you made halters? They

said yeah, we made halters. I like going to class saying, they made halters. I

said why am I going to animal science class to make halters? The only halter I

knew about was the one your wore. (laughing) So I was telling my girlfriend as

we're walking through Burruss, I don't need that. I can get my sewing machine

and make a halter in my room (laughing). She fell out laughing.

[End of Interview]