Oral History with Jackie Butler Blackwell, April 29, 1995 (Ms1995-026)

Tamara Kennelly: Where are you from originally?

Jacquelyn Butler Blackwell: Lancaster County, Virginia

Kennelly: Did you grow up there?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Blackwell: I have one younger brother and one younger sister.

Kennelly: Did they go to college too?

Blackwell: My sister went for two years, and my brother didn't go.

Kennelly: Where did your sister go?

Blackwell: To Virginia State in Petersburg.

Kennelly: Did your parents go to college?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: So you were the first one in your family to go?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Did your mother work when you were growing up?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: 00:01:00What did she do?

Blackwell: She was a seamstress. She worked in a sewing plant.

Kennelly: Where was that?

Blackwell: In Lancaster County, Virginia.

Kennelly: What was it called?

Blackwell: (Laughing) I can't remember.

Kennelly: What about your father?

Blackwell: He was a barber, and he did some farming too.

Kennelly: Farming?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: What does he farm?

Blackwell: Soybeans, corn. I think that's basically it.

Kennelly: Did you grow up on a farm?

Blackwell: It wasn't a big farm, but it was a farm. We had chickens and cows and

horses and vegetables, things like that.

Kennelly: Did you have to help?

Blackwell: Well, I didn't help that much. Except in the fall when they had corn

planted, I picked the corn, and if there were any corn left in the field, my

father would gather up the children in the neighborhood, and they would go pick

the corn up out the field, but that's about basically all I did.

Kennelly: What about your mother? Did she help?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: So your father was doing both things?

Blackwell: Well see, we lived 00:02:00next door to my grandmother, my great grandmother,

and great grandfather, so it was a whole family thing. And he had his brothers

and sisters there to help him, and we were about the third generation, so we

didn't do too much.

Kennelly: So there was like four generations of family all living there?

Blackwell: Yes, not in the same house but close by.

Kennelly: Where did you go to high school?

Blackwell: Brookvale High School in Lancaster County.

Kennelly: Was that a very big high school?

Blackwell: Not too big. We had about fifty kids in my graduating high school class.

Kennelly: And was that an integrated class?

Blackwell: No, the first integrated class was when I came here.

Kennelly: That you've been to?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: So not in elementary either?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: So when you were growing up in Lancaster, were things pretty separated?

Blackwell: Yes, completely separated. Well, the county is not that big, but we

had one 00:03:00white high school and one black high school, and the elementary the same way.

Kennelly: And were there any places where the kids would end up mixing?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: Like for recreation or anything?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: Was there a swimming pool or anything like that?

Blackwell: No, nothing. It was a rural area.

Kennelly: There weren't like parks or something where everyone could get together?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: So pretty much just the school was the--

Blackwell: --thing, the center of activity.

Kennelly: So did you have contact with white people when you were growing up?

Blackwell: Yes, not socially. The first job I ever had was as a baby sitter, and

I baby sat for this white family. But other than that, I knew a couple of kids

that weren't too far from where I lived, but that was basically it. 00:04:00In fact,

when I came to Virginia Tech as a freshman, there were two other students (I

found out after I got here) from Lancaster County, and we didn't know each

other. But we were all in the freshman class together.

Kennelly: Two other white students?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: So what happened when you were all together? Were they girls or boys?

Blackwell: They were boys. I didn't know them personally, but I knew of them,

that they were here. Only because when I went home, my father told me so-and-so

was here because he knew his family. And then, I knew one because someone in the

Corps of Cadets told me that someone there was from Lancaster too.

Kennelly: So you never actually ran into each other?

Blackwell: No, but I knew that they were here after I got here.

Kennelly: In your father's barber business, were there white and black 00:05:00 people

that would go to that?

Blackwell: No, just black.

Kennelly: Things were pretty much separated?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Why did you choose Virginia Tech?

Blackwell: Well I had only heard of Virginia Tech in relation to the Extension

Service. I was a big 4-H member, and I had heard of Virginia Polytechnic

Institute. But I never even considered coming here as a college. Then in my

junior year one student from my school came up here in regard to the Home

Economics Department. She came back to my school and said how beautiful it was,

and how nice everybody was and everything, and that it was really a great

school. But I still didn't decide to come here. When I graduated, I was given a

$4,000 scholarship.

Kennelly: Who gave you that?

Blackwell: Rockefeller, it was a John D. Rockefeller scholarship, but it was

from Virginia Tech, through Virginia Tech.

Kennelly: And how did you get that?

Blackwell: 00:06:00I can't remember exactly how I got it. I just knew I got it. I had

considered going to a small college in Rhode Island that had offered me a

scholarship also. But it cost more to go there, and the scholarship wasn't as

large. I figured it would be better for me to come here, but I didn't decide to

come here until just before it was time to start school. It started in September

then instead of in August as it does now. And I think it wasn't until August

that I made up my mind to come here. That's how I happened to get here.

Kennelly: Were you sort of being actively recruited then?

Blackwell: I don't think so. I don't know. It came through the guidance

department or our homeroom 00:07:00teacher. I was the valedictorian of my class, but

don't remember the logistics of how I got the scholarship. I just know that I

did get it. That was one of the considerations that I used to decide to come here.

Kennelly: So you had never visited here before you came.

Blackwell: No, the very first day I saw Virginia Tech was the day I had to move

in. I had never been here before that day.

Kennelly: Had you talked to your roommate before you came?

Blackwell: No, no, I hadn't talked to her. We saw each other for the first time

that day.

Kennelly: Who brought you over here?

Blackwell: My mother and father.

Kennelly: Can you kind of take yourself back to that time and just talk about

how it felt to you when you came?

Blackwell: Well when I was coming up here, I was just excited about getting to

college, and then I got here. I arrived first before my roommate did. I think I

was met downstairs and given a key. Then I came upstairs, and I moved into the

room. I was fine as long as my parents were here. When they left, 00:08:00I felt very

lonely. But I didn't feel sad or anything. Then my roommate came, and she was

excited about moving in. She came with her mother, and I think with her mother,

father, and her little sister. And then we just moved in.

Kennelly: Who was your roommate?

Kennelly: I just want to backtrack before we go on. I wondered what you had done

with the extension? You said that--

Blackwell: 00:09:00Oh, I said that that's how I knew about V. P. I. It was with the 4-H.

In the rural areas of Virginia, there are 4-H clubs where you do different

things like sewing, cooking, many things. The 4-H is like a club, and Virginia

Tech sponsors them. Actually, through the Extension Service I did a lot of work

with that. I just knew that all the materials that I received came from up here.

That was all I knew about Virginia Tech. Basically, the only description I had

of it was from that student who I told you had come up here for a conference or

something like that.

Kennelly: And that wasn't a student who ended up coming here?

Blackwell: Yes, she came the year after I did. She was an underclassman at my school.

Kennelly: What was her name?

Blackwell: Portia Carter.

Kennelly: How long were you involved with the 4-H?

Blackwell: From about fourth grade through high school.

Kennelly: You really kept at it. You were doing like projects, homemaking

things, sewing?

Blackwell: Back when I was in elementary school, 00:10:00the extension agents used to

come into the schools, and the teachers would allot them a certain amount of

time to talk to the students. And then if there were other projects that the

extension agents wanted you to do, we would do them after school or on the

weekend. They had summer camp and things like that. It was just an outlet or

something to do because we didn't have that many things to do.

Kennelly: Is that one of the main social things that when you were growing up

that you would do?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: At that time when you first came how many other black women were here

at the time when you first came to Tech?

Blackwell: Well the only ones that I knew were in my dorm, and there were four

of us in the dorm. That was it. Then we found out there were two others at

Hillcrest. And that was all that I knew.

Kennelly: Who were the other two in your dorm?

Blackwell: Chiquita Hudson 00:11:00and Linda Adams.

Kennelly: So you just kind of ran into each other and realized that you were all

there together?

Blackwell: Yes, and then after that we started doing things together because we

sort of grouped together. The four of us were very close. Linda Edmonds and

Fredi Hairston lived up in Hillcrest, so we didn't see them that often. In my

curriculum, I didn't see them because they were all in different curriculums. So

I didn't see them in class or anything like that. But the four of us in

Eggleston saw each other constantly because Chiquita and Linda lived on the

first floor, and Marguerite, which we called Chick, and I lived on the second floor.

Kennelly: So Marguerite was Chick?

Blackwell: 00:12:00 Yes.

Kennelly: What field were you in when you came up here?

Blackwell: When I started, I was in biology. My roommate was in history,

Chiquita was in aerospace engineering, and Linda downstairs was in statistics. I

think Linda Edmonds was in home economics, and Fredi was in math, I think.

Kennelly: One of the women, I think, Linda Adams, was she a transfer student?

Blackwell: Yes, she came from Clifton Forge Community College. I think near Covington.

Kennelly: So she was actually a junior then. Maybe?

Blackwell: Yes, she was a junior. The rest of us were freshmen.

Kennelly: How were the other girls in the dorm to you?

Blackwell: We basically knew who was on our floor. We had two sections of the

second floor, and we were on the end next to the library here. We basically knew

everybody on that end of the hall. The girls in the dorm were fine. We were all

friends and everything. So I never had any problems at all in the 00:13:00 dorm.

Kennelly: Were there problems other places?

Blackwell: The only thing was when we would go to the cafeteria, and we had our

trays, and we had to pick a table to eat. Sometimes when we sat at the table,

the students at the table would get up and move to another table. That was about

it. That's the only negative thing that I can remember that's really vivid in my

mind. And that was only like when we first got here, the first year.

Kennelly: How did that make you feel when that happened?

Blackwell: Sad, I guess.

Kennelly: When you were eating, was that mixed, men and women?

Blackwell: Yes. At that time, Owens Hall had four lunch rooms, and that was our

dining hall. It was the dining hall for all the dormitories except the students

that lived on Upper 00:14:00Quad. So we all ate in there--boys, girls, and everybody.

Kennelly: Were there a lot more boys than girls then anyway?

Blackwell: Yes. When we first got here, there were 500 girls on campus total. I

think there were 10,000 students at the time.

Kennelly: That was the place where anything happened. How did it work in going

to classes?

Blackwell: I don't remember any incidents or anything in class.

Kennelly: In your classes, were you the only woman in the class? Were there many

women in the classes with you?

Blackwell: There were many women in the class with me, but most of the time I

was the only black one in the class.

Kennelly: You were the only one in sociology. Did you end up talking to other 00:15:00students in the class?

Blackwell: Basically, whenever I was sitting with students nearby, I would find

out who they were, and sometimes we'd study together or things like that. I

couldn't find any difference in the class than it would have been at any other

school or in high school or in anything. The students, once they got to know

you, were fine. At first, they might stare at you sometimes, but once you

interacted with the students, then race or color wasn't important. It didn't

seem like it mattered at all.

Kennelly: Did you feel like people were coming with stereotypes or some kind of assumptions?

Blackwell: Yes, I did. A lot of times they had preconceived ideas. And as they

got to know us, then they lost those ideas because they would ask us about

certain things. We would tear down a lot of the stereotypes that they had had.

Kennelly: What kind of stereotypes would they have that weren't valid?

Blackwell: 00:16:00They didn't basically have to do with education. For instance, as you

will notice, as soon as it gets warm, the students go outside to sunbathe, and

the girls on our hall, my roommate especially, would be kidding with them all

the time, and she would take her watch off, and she would say, "Look at my

suntan." Then the white girls in the dorm would say, "Well I didn't know that

black people could receive a suntan." Stuff like that. And that's basically it.

Of course one of our biggest problems was with our hair. Because when white

people's hair get wet, it just goes straight. Well when black people's hair gets

wet, it just bushes up. That would amaze them a lot, how thick our hair could

get when it was wet. I don't remember 00:17:00any particular other things.

Kennelly: I think there was about 25 black guys?

Blackwell: Actually, when we came in as freshmen, there were 6 girls and 20

boys. The year before my husband came. He was from Southill, Virginia and his

roommate from Roanoke. They were here the year before we were.

Kennelly: So, did you get to know the boys that were here pretty soon?

Blackwell: Yes. The reason is when we went to the cafeteria we sort of stood out

in the cafeteria, so it was easy to pick everybody out. Therefore, not very long

after we got here, we knew who everybody was. There were some boys on the upper

quad; we didn't see them as much. But on the lower quad, we all ate in the same cafeteria.

Kennelly: 00:18:00Did you tend to get together?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Did you make any friendships with white students at the time, any that

have been important to you?

Blackwell: Yes, I have one special friend, a student who was from

Christiansburg. She left--I don't know whether it was one or two years before I

did, but we've maintained contact. She came to my wedding, and now they are

missionaries in Uganda of all places. And we still keep in contact. Chick and I

were only roommates for a year, a year and a half. Then I had two white

roommates after that. My second roommate was a 00:19:00transfer student also. We were

very good friends. She didn't graduate from here. She left before she graduated,

but she lives near Washington, D. C. now, and we still communicate sometimes. I

had another very good friend here, who lives near Lexington/Buena Vista, but

we've lost contact since we left school.

Kennelly: Do you miss her?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: What happened to Chick--Marguerite? Did she leave school?

Blackwell: No, she graduated the same year I did. She was from Virginia Beach,

Virginia, and I live in Portsmouth now which is very close to Virginia Beach.

She was in my wedding also. Since then, I have only seen her twice. It just

happened that we ran into each other at the mall. I don't know where she is now.

I think she lives in North Carolina.

Kennelly: No, but I mean, you said you weren't roommates the second year?

Blackwell: We had conflicting 00:20:00personalities. Another thing was that she started

smoking, and I don't like smoking. She met another friend that they were closer

together in personalities, so they moved in together, and I moved in with

someone else.

Kennelly: Did she move in with a white student then?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Did you meet someone that you got along with and moved in with that

person too or were you just assigned to somebody?

Blackwell: No. The whole first year, she and I were roommates. Then the second

year we were roommates for the first semester. The second semester I had the

room by myself, and I really liked that. Then the third year Nancy and I, that

was the girl from Northern Virginia who was a transfer student, met each other

in class my sophomore year. We decided we would room together the next year. So

we started off as roommates my third year, but she decided to leave school. I

think she got married or something. She moved out West, and she left. So when

Nancy left, 00:21:00Susie who lived on my hall couldn't get along with her roommate, so

she asked me if she could move in with me. She moved in with me, and we were

roommates until I left school.

Kennelly: I heard, maybe it was from Linda Edmonds, that one of the girls who

first came here had been assigned a white roommate and there was some problem

with that?

Blackwell: I don't know about that. That may have happened in her dorm because

she lived in Hillcrest.

Kennelly: Chiquita Hudson, now where was she from?

Blackwell: 00:22:00 Hampton.

Kennelly: And she was sick at the time?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Did she know she was?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Terminally ill?

Blackwell: I think so because she had special arrangements at the infirmary I

think they were made before she got here. They had been alerted that she had

some type of illness, and whenever she got sick, they would send her to the

infirmary. When I said "whenever she got sick," I should say weak because she

had to be very cautious about catching colds and stuff like that. I don't

remember exactly what she had, but I know that when she wasn't sick, she was

just like the rest of us, full of energy. She had a lot of energy, but many

times she had to go to the infirmary for weeks at a time.

Kennelly: Hard to keep up with everything. Did she make it through that whole year?

Blackwell: Yes, she made it through the first year.

Kennelly: Then when did she die?

Blackwell: I think it was like in July, right after freshman year.

Kennelly: So did you go to that 00:23:00 funeral?

Blackwell: Yes. I was in summer school that summer. I decided to stay up here

because I wanted to get ahead, so I stayed after that my freshman year, and I

went to summer school, and I worked in the microbiology department that summer.

Maugerite was the one that called me and told me that she had died, so Linda

Adams and I went with Fredi's father from Roanoke because Fredi lived in

Roanoke. And I think he came up here and got us, and he drove us all down to

Hampton to the funeral.

Kennelly: Did Tech acknowledge the death at all, as far as you know?

Blackwell: Not that I know.

Kennelly: I looked in the yearbook. I didn't see any kind of "in memoriam" or

anything. Do you know where her family is?

Blackwell: I don't 00:24:00 know.

Kennelly: When you came here, were things the way you thought they would be or

were they different?

Blackwell: What things?

Kennelly: Just anything that you think of.

Blackwell: I just--the only thing that I thought about when I came here was that

it was a beautiful place. Because this was the first time that--Lancaster is

right on the coast on the Atlantic Ocean, I mean down that way, and I had never

been in the mountains before. So it was a whole new experience for me as far as

the appearance of the school. I was just so gungho on getting a college

education; that was all I was concerned about, so other things didn't really

affect me that much.

Kennelly: Did you work the first year? 00:25:00Did you have a job?

Blackwell: I had a work-study job, I'm not sure whether I started the first year

or the second year. But it was at night. I was the night monitor at Hillcrest. I

would sit at the desk, because back then the girls had to sign in and out. After

a certain time of day, you had to sign in and out. So I had that job until I

left here. I would go up there, I think it was only two nights a week, and I

would sit there until about 11:00, and then the house mother up there would

drive me back down to Eggleston.

Kennelly: What about as far as dealing with administrators or faculty, was that

just ordinary? I mean, did you feel you had to deal with any assumptions or

stereotypes on the part of other people here besides the students?

Blackwell: I don't feel that way. The only class I might have felt something

like 00:26:00that was in one of my science classes. I thought, it just crossed my mind

that maybe he had some preconceived ideas about me, but in my other classes I

don't think so. Because I was helped by a lot of the faculty members here.

Specifically, there was a Dr. Joachim Bruhn in the foreign language department.

He was really helpful to me, and then Dr. James Highlander was in the sociology

department. He was one of the main reasons why I switched over to sociology

because I took a couple of his classes, and I was really impressed by him. So I

decided to switch over.

When I first got here, there was a Dr. Guy Carta who was my faculty advisor in

biology, and he was real nice. When my grades were falling, and he thought they

were falling too low, he would call me in and counsel me and tell me things that

I could to improve. Also he always told me if I had any problems, I could come

and talk to him. In the dorm, we had a house mother and a graduate student that

was in charge of the girls there in the 00:27:00dorm. I didn't detect anything from them

at all. They were always there to help you no matter who you were. And if you

were wrongly doing something, they would reprimand you for doing that. Because

then we had weekly room checks. You had to keep your room clean. They would come

by and check or if anything that they didn't find befitting a Tech lady at that

time they would tell you. I don't remember any type of discrimination or

anything from the faculty.

Kennelly: Do you remember who the house mother was?

Blackwell: I can't remember the house mother's name, but I know that the

graduate student's last name was--I think her name was Carol Amato.

Kennelly: I think Linda Edmonds said that she actually knew President Hahn?

Blackwell: Oh yes. Well I didn't know him, but the very first week that we were

here he invited us 00:28:00all up to his house. It wasn't just us. It was all the

freshmen students on campus. He invited us all to his house for tea and cookies

that first week. I don't know if I ever saw him after that. But we always knew

that he was president, and I just had a nice memory of him. And I was sorry that

he got ill and passed away or something like that or moved on?

Kennelly: I think he's still around.

Blackwell: But he invited us all to his house. It was down by the duck pond--he

used to live down there. He might not have lived there, but he worked there. It

was called the President's House.

Kennelly: 00:29:00What was your social life like?

Blackwell: As far as social life, on the weekends, some of the graduate students-- they had

one black graduate student couple here. I think her husband went to school here,

and she was just here because her husband went here--would have us over to their

house sometimes on the weekend and have a party or something like that.

Kennelly: Did they have all the black students over?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Who was that?

Blackwell: His name was Richard Valentine, I think. I can't remember what his

wife's name was right now. Then it just so happened that--

Kennelly: He was the only graduate student at the time?

Blackwell: No, he wasn't the only one. There was another student in the

chemistry department, but I can't remember what his name was. Then in our dorm,

there were some maids, and they were black maids, and we just sort of talked to

them and found out who they were. And they would invite us over to 00:30:00her house or

to their church on the weekend.

Other than that, I was involved with the formation of Angel Flight, the very

first Angel Flight that was here on campus. At the time, I thought I might go

into the Air Force, so I was involved in planning the conception of that with

one group of the Air Force ROTC cadets that were on upper quad. The sponsor,

sorry I can't remember his name, but he lived somewhere out in the community. He

would invite us to his house for like volleyball, a cookout, and stuff like

that. So I was involved in that.

Kennelly: Now was that a black person or a white person?

Blackwell: It was a white person. In fact, I was the only black person in Angel

Flight. They have a picture of that somewhere on campus because I saw it once.

It was of the very first 00:31:00members of that group. We weren't very big, maybe 10 or

15 students.

Kennelly: Could you explain what Angel Flight is?

Blackwell: Angel Flight is sort of a sister organization to the Air Force ROTC

students. We didn't do anything military, anything like that. But we had a blue

jumper with a white blouse, and we had a blue cape. And the Air Force actually

gave us buttons and stuff.

Blackwell: Another school had to initiate us into the Angel Flight. They had

special speakers to come in and talk to us. And it was more social than

military. But once a week we would go up to--because back then we thought it was

a real privilege to go on upper quad because we weren't allowed up there all the

time. It was just for the cadets. They lived up there exclusive; there were no

civilians up there. So on Thursday we got to eat in Shultz with some members

from the Air Force. The Air Force 00:32:00had a brother organization. I can't remember

what it was called now, but they had their organization, and the girls were

called Angel Flight. We would meet on Thursdays, and we would go sometimes to

Shultz like I said to eat dinner with the brother group up there, or we would go

out to the sponsor's house and do things out there.

Kennelly: So in those situations, was it mixed, black and white as far as eating

together and all that? When you'd go up and eat dinner at Shultz?

Blackwell: Well when we went up to eat in Shultz, we ate as a group.

Kennelly: All the Angel Flight girls would be together?

Blackwell: Yes. We would eat with the group, the male group. I can't remember

what they were called now, but we would all eat together.

Kennelly: So it was just like a real social kind of thing?

Blackwell: 00:33:00 Yes.

Kennelly: We'll have to find some pictures of that. Do you think they might have

them over at the Corps?

Blackwell: I don't know where they would be now. I know it was with the Air

Force ROTC.

Kennelly: So you were a person who helped organize that here?

Blackwell: Yes. We had ranks just like in the Air Force. There was one girl that

was the major. I think her name was Janice Lloyd. I was next, captain. And we

were in the very first one that was formed because we had to read charters and

everything and how it was done. It had to be done according to certain rules and

regulations and everything.

Kennelly: So you were really taking a leadership role in putting that together?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: And then how did you recruit people to be involved in this?

Blackwell: They had to apply. They had to apply to become members, and then they

went through a period of things they had to do. It was not an initiation like

you see in some of the fraternities and sororities, but they had to have

character and things like this. They would 00:34:00maybe go through an interview or

something. They had to perform service, and then at the end of the period, the

male group and the girl group would vote on whether they could come into that

organization. I wish I could remember their names. I can't remember what the

boys were called.

Kennelly: None of the other, of this group of six women, none of the other women

pursued that? That was something you did on your own, that you were interested in?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Were you politically active in any way?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: Did you go to any school dances?

Blackwell: I went to the formals. They were called formals. Back then we had

spring formals, and winter formals, and Ring Dance. I went to all of those. They

were big events when we were 00:35:00 here.

Kennelly: Where you wear long dresses?

Blackwell: Yes, I think formals were two nights. On the first night you wore

long dresses; on the second night you wore short dresses or cocktail dresses.

Kennelly: Did all the girls go?

Blackwell: No, not everyone. Linda Adams was very very religious, and she didn't

do many things that the rest of us did because it was against her religion.

Kennelly: What about the other four girls then?

Blackwell: Yes. The only other person that I remember is my roommate, Chick, and

I went. I know we went together sometimes with our dates, went to the same one.

As far as Linda and Fredi are concerned, I don't know whether they went, but I

know Chic and I did. And as far as Chiquita and Linda, I don't think that they 00:36:00went. I don't know. I know Linda didn't. Whether Chiquita went that first year I

can't remember.

Kennelly: You just dance with black guys, and did you dance with the white guys too?

Blackwell: We basically danced with the person that we went there with.

Kennelly: Just your date?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Were you dating your husband [Eli Blackwell] at the time?

Blackwell: Yes, well toward the second year. We started dating the second year.

Kennelly: What field is your husband in?

Blackwell: Mechanical engineering.

Kennelly: Did you say that your daughter is also pursuing mechanical engineering?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Was there much political going on here at that time?

Blackwell: Well at that time, the Vietnam War was going on. So there were alot

of demonstrations and things on the drillfield. Because when we were here, the

drillfield was our center of 00:37:00activity. Everything was around the drillfield. But

I didn't get involved with any of what was going on, so I don't really know what

was going on out there.

Kennelly: What about your husband? What kind of background did he come from?

Where did he come from?

Blackwell: He grew up in Lawrenceville, Virginia which is in the middle part of

the state, right on the North Carolina border. That's a tobacco belt, and they

had to work very hard. He grew up in a farming community. Even sometimes when

the crop would come in they would have to get out of school to go and help reap

the crops. So he had a very hard life, I think, harder than mine. Because my

father did some farming, but it wasn't like his whole thing. That was their

whole 00:38:00life. They planted tobacco, picked the tobacco, took it to market, all

that sort of things. He has told me stories of how hard that was. Because I

think they had to check each leaf or something like that.

He is the oldest in his family as I am in mine. My sister only finished two

years of college, and my brother didn't go to college. His sister, who comes

after him, is a lieutenant colonel in the Army, and his next brother is

finishing his residency as a cardiac surgeon. He has another brother who's in

the Army and then another one who lives next to his mother.

Kennelly: How did he happen to choose Tech? Do you know?

Blackwell: Well, he 00:39:00always wanted to be an engineer. From what he told me,

everyone told him not to come here, but he had one teacher in his high school

who told him about here and that it was a very good school for engineering. So

he was determined to come here. In fact, when he came here, he said he came here

on the bus, and he just had this one suitcase. He was in the Corps of Cadets.

That's how he got here, but he was determined to come even though he was advised

against coming here.

Kennelly: Who would advise him against and why?

Blackwell: Most of the people that knew that this was basically an all white

school was telling him that he would have problems here and that if he came here

he would be sorry. He should go to one of the black engineering schools instead

of coming up here.

Kennelly: 00:40:00Who encouraged him then to come?

Blackwell: It was one of his teachers, but I don't know who they were.

Kennelly: So did he get a scholarship as well?

Blackwell: I'm not sure. If he did, it wasn't as much as the one that I received.

Kennelly: So did he have to work when he was here?

Blackwell: Yes, he worked while he was here. He had a work-study job, and then

in the summers, I think it was after his freshman year, he went home and he

worked in the sawmill. And then between his sophomore and junior year, he worked

for some company up here putting fences in. As you ride down the highway, he

still shows me there's one of the fences that he helped put in. And he worked

with one of the construction companies around here, but he had to work the whole time.

Kennelly: Was your scholarship a four-year scholarship?

Blackwell: Yes, and it paid for basically 00:41:00everything except my books.

Kennelly: It paid for everything, room, board, and tuition?

Blackwell: Yes, it was a $4,000 scholarship, and it only cost a thousand dollars

to come up here then.

Kennelly: Did your family help you with some of the other expenses?

Blackwell: My mother and my father gave me whatever the scholarship didn't

cover. Because the only job that I had was just that work-study job that I was

telling you about at Hillcrest.

Kennelly: So did they expect you to work at home? I mean, in the summertime?

Blackwell: Oh, I forgot. Between my freshman and sophomore year, I worked here

in the microbiology lab because I was still majoring in biology at that time.

Kennelly: What were you doing there?

Blackwell: I was working with a graduate student, and I would help him with

whatever he needed done in the lab. I autoclaved instruments and fixed petri

dishes and stuff for experiments and watched them if he 00:42:00wanted to put down any

of the information on the research projects or anything like that. I really

liked that job. That was one of the best jobs I ever had, only because it was

very interesting.

Then the next summer, I worked at home in Lancaster County with one of the

extension agents for Virginia Tech. I helped with sewing projects that she was

teaching little children in elementary school, and then they had a camp down in

Williamsburg, and I went down there as one of the camp leaders to help them that summer.

Then the next summer after that, I went to Germany. In fact, that's where I

finished my studies at Virginia Tech. I finished here in three years. At the end

of that summer, I had 00:43:00enough credits to graduate. One of the girls that lived on

my hall had gone to Germany the year before, and she told me all about Virginia

Tech's study abroad program, and I applied and was accepted into that program.

From June of 1969 until September, I was in Germany and studied at the

university there.

Kennelly: Which university?

Blackwell: In Wurzburg. Then we had two weeks of separate travel that we could

travel throughout Europe. The program involved four weeks of residential stay

with a German family where we had to attend school each day except on the

weekends. The second part of the studying abroad would be travel with one of the

professors from Virginia Tech and a tour guide from Germany throughout East and

West Germany.

Kennelly: Well what was that experience like?

Blackwell: It was great. I lucked out. The German family that I stayed with was

wonderful. They 00:44:00had three children, eight, six, and two. He worked in the post

office, and she stayed at home. And they had an extended family. On the weekends

they got together and did things, and they were very supportive of whatever I

was doing in the classroom. They would help me out.

Going to school was wonderful. They had a German professor there who would pick

up where our professor here left off because even though he was our chaperone

over there, he also taught some of the subjects we were taking while we were

there, along with the German professor. We had to eat in their university

cafeteria (that was interesting) and learn how to ride the rail system and the

bus system over there. It was all a great learning experience. There were

sixteen students in the group from Virginia Tech that went to Germany. There

were other students on the same plane that were going to other countries. We all

went to Amsterdam and went out from there to 00:45:00the countries where we were going.

In traveling back and forth throughout Germany at that time, the one thing that

I remember, for the very first time--I don't know how it is now--in Germany, I

felt for the very first time there was no discrimination between black and

white. We were all treated equally there. And some of the students in the group

even mentioned that at the time. I had noticed that, but some of the students,

when it was time to come back home and we were talking about coming back home

and things like that, and I was the only black student again in that group.

Kennelly: In the whole group?

Blackwell: Yes, and they mentioned that because they had seen how things were

throughout our travels and places we had toured. Everybody was 00:46:00just treated the

same, equally without regards to color and that was one of the things I remember

most about that trip over there.

Kennelly: What did the other students say about it?

Blackwell: When it was time to come home we were having such a good time, I said

I didn't really want to come back. And they said, "Well I guess you don't." You

know, one of those things like that. And then that was the reason why they said,

"I guess you don't."

Kennelly: Because they noticed that you were treated differently here?

Blackwell: Yes. Well, not just me, but, you know, the way things were in the

United States.

Kennelly: The German students, I mean just people just generally were much more--?

Blackwell: Friendly. One time I was in a bank to change money, and this little

old lady came up to me, and she was touching me. I didn't know what she was

doing, and she was holding my hand. Then she was saying schön, schön,

which means beautiful in German, and she was talking about me because I guess

she had 00:47:00never seen a black person before or a dark person. She was looking at

me, and she was trying to see, she was rubbing like this, if this would come off

I guess. I remember that.

Kennelly: But doing it in a way that it wasn't offensive?

Blackwell: Yes, she was just inquisitive.

Kennelly: When you were here at school, did it feel like it was kind of removed

from the rest of the world?

Blackwell: Well-- as I said in our dormitory because then basically we went to

class, we came to our dormitory, we went to the cafeteria. That was all we did

back then. It wasn't that much that we did other than that, except on the

weekends. Sometimes, like I was telling you, we'd do things on the weekends.

Sometimes, but not all the time. Once everyone got to know you, then it was just

like I was Jackie, and they were 00:48:00Susan. That was it.

But in the classroom sometimes when you go to class, and you were the only black

person in the class, you would feel like everyone was staring at you. And I

remember sometimes walking across the drillfield when it was cold, the first

year I came up here--I think it snowed from October to May. It was so cold. I

would think to myself sometimes that if I was walking to class between my dorm

and the classroom, and I would faint here on this drillfield, no one would care.

Everyone would just keep walking by. This was just some of the things that you

would think about sometimes. You would wonder to yourself if anyone would stop

or if they would just keep going.

Kennelly: How were the white guys?

Blackwell: Well the only ones that I associated with were basically the ones I

met in the classroom. The ones that you got to know, they were fine. The school

was so big in regards to what I had been used to, and you actually only

associated with the people that were in your small circle of friends.

Kennelly: What about in the Angel 00:49:00Flight, were there guys in that group too?

Blackwell: In the Angel Flight there were only girls, but then there was a

brother organization with all boys. That should be in one of the yearbooks, what

they were. They were fine. If they said anything, they said it some place I

couldn't hear it.

Kennelly: But were they friendly?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: I noticed that of the group of women that you were the only one in

this picture right there had your picture in the yearbook that year. Do you

remember why that happened?

Blackwell: Well they send a notice in your mailbox that said to come and take

your pictures for the yearbook. And at my high school we just took pictures

every year, so I just thought you were supposed to go and get your picture

taken. So whenever they would send a notice, 00:50:00I would just go get my picture taken.

Kennelly: I'm glad you did. But how come the other girls didn't? Was there any

reason, or they just didn't get around to it some years?

Blackwell: I don't know why they didn't take their pictures the first year. I

just thought everybody took their pictures.

Kennelly: You said you went with some of the maids to their churches?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Do you remember their names?

Blackwell: Yes. The one that was in our dorm, her name was Belle Snell, and she

lived on Jackson Street here right in Blacksburg within walking distance.

Kennelly: What church did she go to?

Blackwell: I can't remember the name of the church, but it was a little

Methodist church that was right there right within walking distance from campus.

But that was when I went to church with her. I went to Blacksburg Baptist

Church, and I went there because I was a Baptist, and they just asked you where

you wanted to go, and I went 00:51:00there. The people were very nice and friendly and

everything, so I went to Sunday school there sometimes and then to the worship

service there sometimes, and I don't remember anyone ever being discriminatory

or anything like that.

Kennelly: So it's the church right over here?

Blackwell: Yes, right down at the end of the Mall.

Kennelly: Were you the only person going to that one?

Blackwell: Yes, because Chick--Marguerite--my roommate, was Episcopalian, and

she went to that church.

Kennelly: And none of the guys were going?

Blackwell: I don't remember any being there. I think they went to the Black

churches. This other friend that I told you that I still keep in contact with

who's a missionary now in Uganda, she and I would walk there on Sundays, to

Blacksburg Baptist. I don't remember what the rest of the students were, but

Linda, who I told you was very religious. 00:52:00Linda Adams was Holiness. I went to

church with everybody. I visited the churches, but I went to church with her one

time that I remember. And I went to church with Chick one time to the Episcopal

church. I think it was because there was this archaeologist--I think his name

was Leakey. I think he was visiting the campus or something, and they had a

special ceremony or something, and she took me to church with her.

Kennelly: Was there a Holiness church here?

Blackwell: Yes. It was somewhere close by because we didn't have any cars or

anything, so it had to be within walking distance. I don't think she had someone

to take her there, but it was right here in Blacksburg. I think we walked there.

We usually walked 00:53:00everywhere that we went.

Kennelly: So the girl who was going to the Episcopalian church that was?

Blackwell: That was my roommate.

Kennelly: That was a mixed church?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Then the other churches were all black churches that people were going to?

Blackwell: I think they were mixed because when we got here, they gave us a list

of churches. We just went to the ones that were on the list, but like for Mrs.

Snell's church, once you got to know her that was an all black church. And I

visited there several times.

Kennelly: Kind of a social visit?

Blackwell: Yes, she would invite us to her church.

Kennelly: Were the people in town friendly?

Blackwell: Yes. Mrs. Snell and her family. I got to know her and her children.

Then there was another family that was very important to me, Gustina and Alonzo

Brisco. He worked in the infirmary. I think he was the cook there or something

or the help there. I don't know what he did there, but he 00:54:00worked at the

infirmary. I met his wife through Mrs. Snell who was also working one summer

with Mrs. Brisco's sister, who was also a maid here. By the way, Mrs. Brisco

worked for Dr. Hahn in his house. She was his housekeeper. That's why I think he

had another house off campus because she used to tell me about a house off

campus. Anyway, they were very nice people. They would always invite me over to

their house, and I went over there. That was within walking distance from here too.

Kennelly: Were they black?

Blackwell: Yes, they were.

Kennelly: When you came here to school, did your parents give you any special

kind of advice?

Blackwell: No, just do the best that you can. That's probably why I had no

problems coming here to Virginia Tech because in my family, with my parents and

my 00:55:00grandparents that lived next door to us, my grandmother would always tell us

to be nice to people, and people would be the same. They never taught us to hate

anybody else just because they were white or we were black. Even though I guess

we were oppressed, I never felt oppressed. I never experienced that. Most of the

people in my town were very friendly. The part of the town where I live is just

rural. It's not really a town; it's just rural. They have black people, and they

have white people. We don't live right beside each other, but we lived like

houses here, and you go a few miles, it's another house. Even though we went to

different schools, it was just the way it was always, and we never thought about

it as being anyway differently.

Blackwell: When I came here, of course, it was different because we were all

mixed, and that was a novelty because it was new. But we didn't hate anybody

else because some of the students that came were 00:56:00from larger cities than where I

was from, and maybe they had experienced different things. But where I grew up,

I hadn't experienced any of anything that would make me hate anybody or anything

like that.

Kennelly: Like riding on a bus and having someone be rude to you on the bus?

Blackwell: Yes, because we had no bus. We didn't have any stop lights or

anything like that.

Kennelly: So it wasn't like there was a library that you wanted to use and

somebody said you couldn't use it or anything like that when you were growing up?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: Things were separate, but there wasn't--?

Blackwell: It was separate, and it had always been that way, and we just went to

school. We had a new school at the time, and we had a library at the school.

Basically, the church was the center of social stuff, and that's what we did,

and everybody went 00:57:00about their business and did their own thing. I had always

been a conscientious student, and when I came here, I just wanted to study and

do well when I came here. It was a big event in my hometown that I was coming

here, and everybody was supporting me and everything, and I didn't want to let

them down. So I just tried to do the best I could.

Kennelly: Were there many other students from your high school that went on to college?

Blackwell: Yes. Many of the students from my high school went on to college, but

not many of them came to Virginia Tech. The only other person that I know of,

I'm sure there's some that have come that I don't know about, but Portia Carter,

who I told you about, came the year after I did who was instrumental in my

coming here. But they mostly went to black colleges.

Kennelly: Where you live now, are you in a city now?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Is that very 00:58:00far from--?

Blackwell: Where I grew up?

Kennelly: Yes.

Blackwell: Two hours away.

Kennelly: So it is pretty far?

Blackwell: Two hours south. It's still right on the coast. Virginia goes out

like a peninsula coming down, and it's right on the Chesapeake Bay. Portsmouth

is like here, and Lancaster is up there, but it's still right on the Chesapeake

Bay, both places.

Kennelly: Has Lancaster changed much? Is it still rural?

Blackwell: It's rural, but they do have a couple of stop lights now. And they

have a McDonald's and a Burger King and a Pizza Hut that they've just built only

in the town. They have a little town they called Killmonock. Right there in that

little town they have a stop light, and they have several fast food restaurants.

And they have a little mall, not a big shopping mall like you find in some of

the big cities. But in the rest of the county, it's still rural.

Kennelly: Is there still like a black high school and a white high school?

Blackwell: No. A few years after I graduated, maybe three or four years, the

school integrated. The school that I went to is now an elementary school, I

think. And they have a brand new high school. They only 00:59:00have one high school in

that county, and all the students go there.

Kennelly: Was there any sense, when you were in high school, that the white

school had better teachers or anything was better? Did you have black teachers

or white teachers?

Blackwell: Black teachers.

Kennelly: Or that you weren't getting as much for your tax dollars say as other

people at another school in terms of equipment or buildings?

Blackwell: Well when I was in high school, I didn't think about those things. I

lived right on the main highway. You'd call it a highway, but it's just a road

that goes past your house. The white high school in the county was in that town

I told you about that just had the stop lights and everything now. That was in

the town, and ours was out in the rural area. And 01:00:00sometimes when I was at my

house, I could see when they were going to football games or something. I could

see their bus going by, and we just said, "There goes Lancaster High School."

That was it.

Kennelly: And it was just another school? And it wasn't that people felt they

weren't being given as good an education?

Blackwell: Yes, because we had very good teachers, even though it was a small

high school. Especially my homeroom teacher, he was very tough. He was a

government teacher, a history teacher, and he was very strict. And we had a math

teacher. Those are the two teachers that stick out in my mind. They were very,

very tough, but when I came to Virginia Tech, I appreciated them more because

they were that way, and I went back and told both of them that because some of

the other teacher were easy, and when we got here, we paid for that. We were

behind some of the other students that had come from other schools. But those

two teachers, the classes that I had taken from them, I could compete with

anyone else who was here at Virginia 01:01:00 Tech.

Kennelly: In math and--?

Blackwell: Math and social studies. In fact, I shouldn't say this, but I was

taking U.S. history class as an elective, and I was taking so many science

classes (I was in biology at the time) I had learned so much from that teacher

in high school that I didn't even have to read that book for that class when I

was here at Virginia Tech. I just went right on straight on through that class

without even having to study for that class.

Kennelly: Did you take an accelerated class in high school, or was it just a

regular class?

Blackwell: It was just a regular class. He was just hard. Everybody didn't take

his. You know they had different sections, like if you were in a higher class or

lower class. But we didn't have that many students in our school. You had to

take government and history; he taught world history and government. You had to

take that in order to graduate. Some students did well, and some didn't, but he

was strict on everybody.

Kennelly: What were the areas that you felt, you said that you were behind in

some 01:02:00 areas?

Blackwell: Chemistry for one. My high school teacher, the one that taught

chemistry, we read through the book, we did the questions at the back of the

book. When you did that, you had finished. If you could answer those questions,

that was fine. When I got here and we did the laboratory work, that was

something completely new to me.

Kennelly: You hadn't worked in a laboratory?

Blackwell: We had a laboratory in our school. We didn't do the experiments and

in depth studies that they did here when we got here, and I was really behind in chemistry.

Kennelly: So some students might have come from high schools that had other facilities?

Blackwell: Yes. The teacher that taught chemistry also taught french. Now he

could have been proficient in 01:03:00both of those subjects, but--

Kennelly: When you were in Germany, could you speak German?

Blackwell: Yes. When I first went over there, I couldn't speak it very well.

There was one student in our class who could speak it fluently. I think his

family was German here. He was from a German background, and he could speak it

fluently. When I first got there, I had had a lot of classes here, but it was

basically I could do work, I could translate it, and I could understand it, but

I couldn't speak it that well. When I left there, I could speak it very well at

that time. Basically because of living with my family. They could not speak

English. My German father could speak a little bit of English, but the rest of

the family could speak no English. 01:04:00So I had to communicate. I took my German

dictionary with me everywhere. By the time I left, I could converse with people

on the Autobahn or riding on the train or in the stores, everywhere. I

definitely feel that if you want to learn a foreign language, you have to go and

live in the culture in order to learn it, speak it, and everything. Even to

think in that foreign language.

Kennelly: What's your kind of overall sense of your education you received at Tech?

Blackwell: I think my experiences at Virginia Tech prepared me for a lot of

things that I've encountered since I left Virginia Tech. I think I've received a

good education. I always tell everyone that it's a very good school. I encourage

other students to come here. I feel that overall my experience at Virginia Tech

was a positive one. I learned many things here, both socially and academically

that I feel that I would not have learned if I had gone to an all black college.

Kennelly: Did you feel like you were 01:05:00breaking ground when you came here? Kind of

the vanguard of things?

Blackwell: Well I knew we were the first. I knew that at the time when we first

came here. So I guess in that sense, yes.

Kennelly: What happened then when you graduated?

Blackwell: When I graduated from Virginia Tech I got married, and then I went to

work for the Virginia Employment Commission in South Boston, Virginia. My

husband was drafted into the military. Like I said, during that time it was the

Vietnam War going on, but he got sent to Bangkok, Thailand, and I went over there.

Kennelly: Did you say Thailand?

Blackwell: Yes. I lived there for 15 months, and then I came back to Tidewater,

Virginia, which is where I am now. And I worked for the Virginia Employment

Commission down there. I worked in claims, when I was in South Boston,

unemployment insurance. And when I went to Norfolk, I worked as a teacher of

adults who 01:06:00were welfare recipients. I taught them how to get a job, how to keep

a job, how to prepare for the interview, things like that. I did that for about

six months, and they needed someone to work in claims, so I went back to working

in unemployment claims. And also, sometimes in interviewing people for jobs and

to send them on jobs and to work with some of the students in vocational

education, all with the Virginia Employment Commission. And then when my first

daughter, just before she was born, I retired, sort of, and I haven't gainfully

worked since that time, but I've been very involved with the school system in

Portsmouth, in PTA and several of their committees 01:07:00and conferences and things

like that.

At the school now, for the past six years I've been a director of a volunteer

program which is a community and parents program for the high school that my

daughter attends. We try to get the community and the parents more involved in

the schools. We try to just let them see what's going on and hopefully rid some

of the discipline problems, encourage some of the students to do better because

a lot of the parents feel that once the students get in high school they don't

have to support them as much as they did when they were in elementary school. So

I've been in charge with getting volunteers for different areas of the school,

and several people who have retired, to get them back involved in the school,

and just anybody 01:08:00who come in and just give some their time to helping out in the school.

Kennelly: Is that a mixed school?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: In Portsmouth, you're living in a regular urban--

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Right in the middle of the city?

Blackwell: No, no. I live in the suburbs.

Kennelly: And is it like a mixed area?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: How many kids do you have? Children?

Blackwell: Two.

Kennelly: Both girls?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: And so one is--

Blackwell: Here and one is in the eleventh grade.

Kennelly: And their names?

Blackwell: The one's here is named Lori, and the one in high school is Stacy.

Kennelly: Did you get married very soon after you graduated then?

Blackwell: Actually, like I told you, I finished all my credits that summer in

Germany. I think I got about either 9 or 12 credits from that experience there.

I don't remember how many it was, but I finished all the requirements for my

degree that summer.

Kennelly: And this was the summer after your third year of school?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: That's unusual to go through that fast, isn't it?

Well, I went to summer school the first year. 01:09:00I was sort of in a hurry to

finish, so I went to summer school my first year, and then I took extra classes.

I guess you would call it an overload of classes so that I could finish. Because

I had planned to go into occupational therapy, and I figured I would be going on

after that. But after that year in Germany, in September when we came back, my

husband now proposed to me, so we decided to get married. We got married in

December, but he still hadn't finished college, even though he got here before I

did. So we lived in Blacksburg until June, and then we both marched and got our

diplomas in June.

Kennelly: So that September to June after Germany you were--

Blackwell: I was here.

Kennelly: 01:10:00But not in school?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: You were through?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: So what did you do then?

Blackwell: I looked for a job. Everytime I would go out and I would look for a

job, everyone would tell me they knew that I had finished, and they knew that I

would probably be leaving soon, so I had difficulties finding a job. But I went

to the Virginia Employment Commission in Radford. And just so happened that one

day when I was over there, there was the head of the department from Dublin,

Virginia, who happened to be in there, and he knew the supervisor for the South

Boston, Virginia--Halifax County division down in South Boston. And when my

husband got drafted into the military, we knew that on a certain date he had to

go. He called down 01:11:00there and got an interview for me down there because he had

heard that they needed an employment and claims interviewer. And that's how I

got to South Boston, and my husband went into the military, and I moved to South

Boston. I rented a room from a lady down there, and I worked down there for

almost two years. My husband went to Bangkok; he was there almost a year before

I went to Bangkok. Then I went over there for 15 months. And then when he got

out, he sent his resume out to several companies. One of them was General

Electric Company, and they had a television division in Portsmouth, actually

Suffolk. Portsmouth and Suffolk are right there on the same line. That's how we

got down there in Tidewater, Virginia area.

Kennelly: What is your husband doing now?

Blackwell: He is working for Newport News Shipbuilding now. He's not working for

GE, but he's still a mechanical engineer there.

Kennelly: For the Newport News Shipbuilding?

Blackwell: 01:12:00 Yes.

Kennelly: Are there any racial problems in the schools that your children are in now?

Blackwell: Not overt racial problems, but I think some still exist. The

students, from what my daughter tells me, the students still congregate in

groups. They still separate themselves within the school.

Kennelly: In both of the schools?

Blackwell: Which school are you referring to?

Kennelly: I guess your daughter's in high school?

Blackwell: Yes, Stacy.

Kennelly: And that's the same school that your other daughter just came out of?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Has your daughter spoken much about that here at Tech now?

Blackwell: No, she hasn't mention any type of that problem. In fact, most of her

friends here are white.

Kennelly: So did you have any special advice for her when she came here?

Well she sort of grew up hearing Virginia Tech from the time she was born.

Kennelly: From both of you?

Blackwell: Yes.

Kennelly: Because you were so positive. Is that why?

Blackwell: Yes, I guess, and she always, from the time she was little, she would

tell everyone that she was coming 01:13:00here. Her senior year, she did apply to three

other colleges, and she got accepted to all the other three. But in the end she

decided to come here, and I think in the back of her mind, she probably knew she

was coming here all along. When she was growing up, in the summer when we were

on vacation, we would come up here and visit sometimes. So that she had seen the

campus before she came up here. She didn't always know she wanted to major in

engineering, but she always said--she would tell her friends that she would

probably end up at Virginia Tech.

Kennelly: Is that an unusual field for girls to be in, mechanical engineering?

Blackwell: Well, in the past it was, but more and more people are getting into

engineering now.

Kennelly: So, when you came up to visit, was it to see the place, or just to see

friends that were in the area or the combination?

Blackwell: Well, we always came to tour the school. Basically what we did, we

knew where everything was, and we just drove around and said this is this, and

this is this. But at the time the Briscos and the Snells, both of them had since 01:14:00died. Mrs. Snell--

Kennelly: She died?

Blackwell: Yes, and Mr. and Mrs. Brisco also, but both of my daughters remember

Mr. Brisco because we would come and visit him and his wife before she died. But

his wife died earlier than he did, so they don't remember her as well. He lived

within walking distance from the campus, and he was a model train buff. And he

always had trains in his basement and everything, and they remember that from

when they were growing up.

Kennelly: Were there any things that, looking back, you think could be needed to

be improved from how things were when you were here then?

Blackwell: 01:15:00Well I can't really think of anything because when I was here, I

didn't give it that much thought. And I've kept up with Virginia Tech pretty

much over the years, and I've seen the progress they've made in all areas. So I

can't really offer any advice in that area.

Kennelly: There's alot of talk about affirmative action policies now. Do you

have any opinions on that?

Blackwell: No.

Kennelly: Are there other things that you'd like to bring up that I haven't

asked you about or anything that stands out?

Blackwell: I think you've pretty much covered everything.

Kennelly: 01:16:00Would you answer that question again that I just asked you about the

names? I was just wondering about the black or African American.

Blackwell: Well as I was saying, I don't mind whichever term you used because I

would think we were all Americans, and too much emphasis is placed on whether

you're a black American, a white American, an Asian American or whatever type of

American. We're all Americans, and as I was saying, like Shakespeare said: "A

rose by any other name smells just as sweet--," or something like that. It

doesn't really matter. I just think with everything that's going on in the

United States now, if we want this country to stay great and to survive in this

world, that we have to all start pulling together instead of being more divided.

[End of Interview]